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I have recently started thinking about whether I should do some modifications to what I have or just bite the bullet and upgrade to a NHT pkg. I'm really trying to avoid a 2500HD, since that's a bit overkill for my limited need. There's some serious $ for moving to a new NHT, and being a bit on the practical side, if I can get the 5.3 to pull smoothly for 99% of my towing, then I really can't justify it. We only tow on occasion, with one long trip per year. The stock 5.3/4-spd/3.73 is doing well and only needs 2nd for "longer, steeper" hills around here. We are planning a trip out west sometime, so that's more of where my concern lies. The occasional 3600 rpm @ 55 mph pulling a grade is fine, but if I were doing it all day in a 40 mph headwind in the plains, then that would be a different story. I have little experience "out west"... but I've heard some stories and have been caught in some strong wind when driving a rental car in NV.

 

The total combined weight for the setup is ~13k lbs--being a camper, it's a wind sail (good slope on front helps). To me, this is right at the "tipping point" between the 5.3 and the 6.0 or 6.2 (with a 4-spd) for occassional use. I have no experience with the 6-spd. I bought the camper after the truck, and knew what I was doing, and that I would consider options after pulling for a while if needed. I really like my truck and, if I upgraded, would order the same config with the NHT pkg. The (far) more practical option is to keep my truck and either (or both):

- swap to 4.10 gears

- tune.

 

Again, I *really* like my truck and don't want to change for any other reason. The pulling power is adequate for everything I've tackled so far, but again, I don't have experience w/ high altitude or high wind conditions. If the 6L80 could be easily swapped in, then that would be a nice towing setup for this weight range (5.3/6-spd/3.73 and a tune...).

 

Thoughts/opinions appreciated...

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It'll only cost a couple/few hundred to tune it. I wouldn't bother with all the exhaust, air cleaner mods. While the exhaust is worth some hp, it's often costly and the gains are still relatively small.

 

Get a good tune. Blackbear was my choice. Probably others have had good luck with other tuners.

 

If the full banana, high octane tune doesn't give you what you want, then it's time to consider other options. I think you'll be ok with a good tune to pull that trailer, but I'd have gone with a 2500 if I'd known that was what my truck was going to do.

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The total combined weight for the setup is ~13k lbs--being a camper, it's a wind sail (good slope on front helps).

 

13k lbs for what? Truck + trailer? How much does the trailer weigh? Got sway control?

 

You'll love your truck with a tune. I have the same setup as you (5.3, 3.73's) and I couldn't be happier. I tow an open car hauler, and with the tune, the truck pulls better.

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13k lbs for what? Truck + trailer? How much does the trailer weigh? Got sway control?

Everything "ready to go": Truck + camper + all of the stuff + family of five + gas = 13k lbs. The fully loaded camper is around 7000 lbs (scale weighed @ 6900 lbs). I am using the Reese dual cam WD hitch system, with 1200 lb bars. It pulls/handles extremely well, with no sway and is very stable. The Z71 suspension probably helps too.

 

I think you'll be ok with a good tune to pull that trailer, but I'd have gone with a 2500 if I'd known that was what my truck was going to do.

For pulling frequently, a 2500HD would be the better option. For 99% daily driver and 1% towing, I think the 1500 offers a nice balance at this weight.

 

A related question: a 3.73 to 4.10 gear swap adds 10% torque "to the road" across the full rpm range. How much torque is expected to be added in the 2k to 4k rpm range with a high octane tune?

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13k lbs for what? Truck + trailer? How much does the trailer weigh? Got sway control?

Everything "ready to go": Truck + camper + all of the stuff + family of five + gas = 13k lbs. The fully loaded camper is around 7000 lbs (scale weighed @ 6900 lbs). I am using the Reese dual cam WD hitch system, with 1200 lb bars. It pulls/handles extremely well, with no sway and is very stable. The Z71 suspension probably helps too.

 

I think you'll be ok with a good tune to pull that trailer, but I'd have gone with a 2500 if I'd known that was what my truck was going to do.

For pulling frequently, a 2500HD would be the better option. For 99% daily driver and 1% towing, I think the 1500 offers a nice balance at this weight.

 

A related question: a 3.73 to 4.10 gear swap adds 10% torque "to the road" across the full rpm range. How much torque is expected to be added in the 2k to 4k rpm range with a high octane tune?

 

 

That's great that you have the load leveling bar hitch and sway control. It'll help in the winds.

 

I know what you mean about low towing frequency vs. the daily use. No offense, but low frequency of towing duty is not a mitgator in safety or capability. It's often the low frequency tow vehicle and driver that has the accidents and mechanical problems. People that tow often have usually bought heavy duty vehicles with big brakes, long wheelbases, and big engines and they keep their equipment in good shape.

 

As you may have seen, in the west there are many mountain passes that can be steep up and down and go on for many miles. I've had to pull over a F350 Super Duty diesel dueley 30ft gooseneck horse trailer combo with only two horses and two guys because the brakes were overheating on a downgrade even with the truck in 1st gear and the electric trailer brakes on. There are places out here that you could get your rig into trouble. Anyone that says different hasn't been in some of these places with tow rig. Towing on the flats of the east or midwest is just not the same.

 

You can do it safely if you plan well and stick to the interstates or highways you know have grades that aren't steep and keep an eye on speed and brake, trans, and engine temps.

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The cheapest and fastes is a tune. I gained a lot from the seat of the pants exhaust. All I did was buy the muffler I wanted and had a custom exhaust made for under 300. Made my own air intake for under 50. Got a mail order tune from BB and my truck pulls just great with the 5.3 and the 3.73. The intake prob didn't add anything to the truck but the stock exhaust is very restrictive. I got to cut it open and was very happy to have added a new exhaust. It also helps pull the heat away from the motor having a less plugged up exhaust.

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The cheapest and fastes is a tune. I gained a lot from the seat of the pants exhaust. All I did was buy the muffler I wanted and had a custom exhaust made for under 300. Made my own air intake for under 50. Got a mail order tune from BB and my truck pulls just great with the 5.3 and the 3.73. The intake prob didn't add anything to the truck but the stock exhaust is very restrictive. I got to cut it open and was very happy to have added a new exhaust. It also helps pull the heat away from the motor having a less plugged up exhaust.

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I say 4.10's and a Tune and you will be fine.

 

Something I have found with my tune and towing is that the factory power is available, the tc seems to lock/unlock when needed and the transmission always seems to be in the gear it needs to be.

 

The tune will give you more torque/hp, but the tranny changes (not TM changes for towing) are really helpful.

 

Towing that much weight, I would consider some helper bags too.

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That's great that you have the load leveling bar hitch and sway control. It'll help in the winds.

 

I know what you mean about low towing frequency vs. the daily use. No offense, but low frequency of towing duty is not a mitgator in safety or capability. It's often the low frequency tow vehicle and driver that has the accidents and mechanical problems. People that tow often have usually bought heavy duty vehicles with big brakes, long wheelbases, and big engines and they keep their equipment in good shape.

 

No offense taken. I want straight-talk when it comes to safety. I kept a Class B CDL (hazmat, etc.) for about ten years at work, with constant training, so I'm a bit anal when it comes to safety, inspections, etc. I take it very seriously, and I appreciate your honesty on the topic.

 

As you may have seen, in the west there are many mountain passes that can be steep up and down and go on for many miles. I've had to pull over a F350 Super Duty diesel dueley 30ft gooseneck horse trailer combo with only two horses and two guys because the brakes were overheating on a downgrade even with the truck in 1st gear and the electric trailer brakes on. There are places out here that you could get your rig into trouble. Anyone that says different hasn't been in some of these places with tow rig. Towing on the flats of the east or midwest is just not the same.

 

If you're trying to scare me... it's working :omg: I had originally considered the new Tundra rather than the GMC, specifically with this in mind (larger brakes, 6-spd, 400 ft-lbs), but had hoped to stay a bit smaller on the camper and really prefer the GMC overall. I see that you have the NHT pkg/6.0/4.10. What's your (or anyone's) overall feeling about how it handles a load (especially braking)? I know the numbers well, and can guesstimate, but 1st-hand experience is good to hear.

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I say 4.10's and a Tune and you will be fine.

 

Something I have found with my tune and towing is that the factory power is available, the tc seems to lock/unlock when needed and the transmission always seems to be in the gear it needs to be.

 

The tune will give you more torque/hp, but the tranny changes (not TM changes for towing) are really helpful.

 

Towing that much weight, I would consider some helper bags too.

 

Robert: Can you expand on that a bit. Are you saying that after the tune, the TC works right because of the TCM tuning, or does the factory TCM tuning work right when the engine power is dialed in? I'm not clear on the TCM tuning vs towing, as opposed to "ECM only".

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That's great that you have the load leveling bar hitch and sway control. It'll help in the winds.

 

I know what you mean about low towing frequency vs. the daily use. No offense, but low frequency of towing duty is not a mitgator in safety or capability. It's often the low frequency tow vehicle and driver that has the accidents and mechanical problems. People that tow often have usually bought heavy duty vehicles with big brakes, long wheelbases, and big engines and they keep their equipment in good shape.

 

No offense taken. I want straight-talk when it comes to safety. I kept a Class B CDL (hazmat, etc.) for about ten years at work, with constant training, so I'm a bit anal when it comes to safety, inspections, etc. I take it very seriously, and I appreciate your honesty on the topic.

 

As you may have seen, in the west there are many mountain passes that can be steep up and down and go on for many miles. I've had to pull over a F350 Super Duty diesel dueley 30ft gooseneck horse trailer combo with only two horses and two guys because the brakes were overheating on a downgrade even with the truck in 1st gear and the electric trailer brakes on. There are places out here that you could get your rig into trouble. Anyone that says different hasn't been in some of these places with tow rig. Towing on the flats of the east or midwest is just not the same.

 

If you're trying to scare me... it's working :omg: I had originally considered the new Tundra rather than the GMC, specifically with this in mind (larger brakes, 6-spd, 400 ft-lbs), but had hoped to stay a bit smaller on the camper and really prefer the GMC overall. I see that you have the NHT pkg/6.0/4.10. What's your (or anyone's) overall feeling about how it handles a load (especially braking)? I know the numbers well, and can guesstimate, but 1st-hand experience is good to hear.

 

 

I've only flat towed a v-8 jeep behind this 08 1500. It was weighed at 4000 lbs even. It handled the tow up and over a small pass of about 3500 ft and then up to around 4500 ft very well. The winds were strong and it didn't sway. Really was an easy tow.

 

With my 99 2500, I've towed many miles in the west with a receiver type hitch and a 3 horse steel slant load trailer. With horses, saddles and all, it's around 8000 lbs. + the loaded truck weight. The 99 2500 is a 6.0 gas (300hp) with a 4L80E trans, coolers, etc (tow pkg) and 4.10 gears. It handles it well, but still struggles up some steep grades. Even with this truck and it's huge brakes, you have to take care on the steep downhill grades around here. You can overheat the brakes even on this truck very easily if you aren't paying attention. I can think of a dozen or more roads within a couple hrs of my house that are high pucker factor with my 2500 and that trailer full of horses.

 

While your looking into suspension, think about a rear swaybar on the truck too.

 

On the gears, given that this trip to the west is maybe once in the life of this truck, I think you'll be ok without 4.10s. It'd be better with them, but diggin into the front as well as the rear axle will be costly if you don't do the work yourself. On the grades in the west, most of the time you're going to be running in a lower gear than overdrive anyway.

 

I don't recall if you said you had a tow pkg equipped truck. If not, adding a larger trans cooler couldn't hurt and maybe an engine oil cooler.

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I don't recall if you said you had a tow pkg equipped truck. If not, adding a larger trans cooler couldn't hurt and maybe an engine oil cooler.

 

That's good first-hand info to have, and gives me a good feel for what to expect. Yes, my truck has the GM factory "heavy duty" tow pkg, with transmission cooler, hd alternator, fan, etc. To my knowledge, it does not have an engine oil cooler.

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Music,

I've seen you quite a bit lately over on Tundra Solutions; just get the Tundra and solve your towing issues. Believe me, I've owned both trucks and the Tundra is simply a superior towing platform. The 5.7 is a beast of an engine combined with the 4.30 gears. My Silverado with the 5.3 labored to tow a 6K trailer. I've towed the same trailer with the Tundra and it doesn't even know it's there. I don't want to ruffle any feathers but that is my experience having owned both trucks. I won't own another truck with Torque Management as intrusive as GM's.

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Music,

I've seen you quite a bit lately over on Tundra Solutions; just get the Tundra and solve your towing issues. Believe me, I've owned both trucks and the Tundra is simply a superior towing platform. The 5.7 is a beast of an engine combined with the 4.30 gears. My Silverado with the 5.3 labored to tow a 6K trailer. I've towed the same trailer with the Tundra and it doesn't even know it's there. I don't want to ruffle any feathers but that is my experience having owned both trucks. I won't own another truck with Torque Management as intrusive as GM's.

 

I started keeping up with the Tundra when shopping last year, and have "kept on keeping up", and got re-interested when the new camper came along. I don't really agree that the Tundra solves all of my towing issues though. The payload is actually less than my Sierra, for example. I wouldn't rule out a Tundra as a tow vehicle, but I'd have to get past some of the design to do it. We all have our tastes, and I just don't (yet?) like the Tundra CrewMax proportions (among a few other things) and really prefer the GMC look, 4wd system, interior, driving, etc. Not bashing the Tundra, it has a lot to offer, but it has it's issues too

 

Edit: This topic is about GM options, so I don't want it turning into a Tundra vs GM debate...

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I don't recall if you said you had a tow pkg equipped truck. If not, adding a larger trans cooler couldn't hurt and maybe an engine oil cooler.

 

That's good first-hand info to have, and gives me a good feel for what to expect. Yes, my truck has the GM factory "heavy duty" tow pkg, with transmission cooler, hd alternator, fan, etc. To my knowledge, it does not have an engine oil cooler.

 

 

Even with the factory setup, replace the auxiliary cooler. Without towing, I was easily able to hit 194 degrees on my trans in 94 degree weather. I was doing about 80, but it was all flat.

 

 

Music,

I've seen you quite a bit lately over on Tundra Solutions; just get the Tundra and solve your towing issues. Believe me, I've owned both trucks and the Tundra is simply a superior towing platform. The 5.7 is a beast of an engine combined with the 4.30 gears. My Silverado with the 5.3 labored to tow a 6K trailer. I've towed the same trailer with the Tundra and it doesn't even know it's there. I don't want to ruffle any feathers but that is my experience having owned both trucks. I won't own another truck with Torque Management as intrusive as GM's.

 

If he's going to buy another truck, why not just go with a 2500HD and kick the sh*t out of the Tundra and not have to deal with the rest of that truck.

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