6.0 vs Dmax General Performance

sdeeter19555 · August 26, 2014

Must have been after 2012, mine definitely doesn't have it. I have an Insight that can monitor it, it never leaves "V8"...in 2012 when I bought the truck, VVT was only available on the 1500.

Blue2500CC · August 27, 2014

Must have been after 2012, mine definitely doesn't have it. I have an Insight that can monitor it, it never leaves "V8"...in 2012 when I bought the truck, VVT was only available on the 1500.

Are you possibly mixing up the VVT and the AFM? It is the AFM (Active Fuel Management) which changes the motor from 8 to 4 cylinders in the 1500's.

avalonandl · August 27, 2014

VVT is cam phasing and has NOTHING to do with AFM that cuts out cylinders. It advancences/retards cam timing. Gm has had that on the 6.0 and you probably have it on the 2012 6.0.

GM did not put AFM on the 2500's because they are not part of the CAFE equation. Over 8600 GVW

SMiller · December 5, 2014

VVT came out in the '07 1/2 HD trucks...

AFM is what cuts to 4 cylinders.

6.0 for me, I cant justify the diesel or the maintenance or the worries.

Cowpie · February 3, 2015

Same for me. Am looking at 2500's now, as the 2013 1500 I have now is probably the first pickup that I have never grown fond of over the time I have owned it. I started inventing new swear words over it within the first month, but figured It would grow on me. Not a chance. Got tired of having to do stuff to override OEM stuff like AFM and other nonsense. it doesn't really get all that great of mpg, and overall just hasn't quite fit all my needs. Does great in snow on the rural gravel roads, but that is about it.

6.0 is my choice, as the pickup is not a daily commuter and it doesn't have to pull heavy frequently. And the two lane rural highways, gravel roads, and such I frequent over 90% of the time, fuel economy will not be all that terrible because speeds are generally lower than the freeway kind of thing. Heck, even the couple of times a month, if that, that I do get out on the interstate, I never really drive over 65 anyway. Guess living thru all those years of nationwide 55 speed limits got me to where I really don't have all the need for speed.

Cowpie · February 25, 2015

Got to thinking of this more and crunched some general numbers on the gas vs. diesel thing in these pickups.

On average from various forums, I have read that the Dmax version of any 2500/3500 platform is about a $8K premium in price. Now factor that over a 100,000 miles, and you have roughly an 8 cent per mile cost of operation spread just in equipment.

Now factor general mpg numbers and cost per mile. Seems like a lot of the 2500 crowd is getting roughly 12 mpg averages on the 6.0L (I get around 14 mpg average for all miles, but we will stick with the 12 for this discussion). That would equate, at the current $2.10 price for regular in my area, about 17.5 cents a mile in fuel cost. Now just to break even on the purchase and fuel consumption, the cost per mile just for fuel on the diesel would have to be 9.5 cents a mile to bring the cost of purchase and operation between the two engines in balance (17.5 cents per mile of the gasser minus the additional equipment cost of 8 cents a mile for diesel engine setup). At the current average cost in my area for diesel, $2.80, the diesel pickup would have to be AVERAGING 29+ mpg just to break even from the additional cost of the diesel option in the pickup! That is not going to happen.

And we didn't even factor in the higher maintenance costs of the diesel platform over the gas, which is going to be when you consider the larger oil sump capacities, more filters, DEF for the SCR unit (when it works right), and cleaning of the DPF filter, or an out right replacement (OUCH!).

Except for the serious, dedicated hauler, the diesel makes absolutely no economic sense. It is a viable option in the right circumstances, but for the average user, getting a diesel only makes a statement, not a sound decision. That is why I chose a 6.0L in my new 2500HD, same as a vast majority of the business users of 3/4 and 1 ton pickups in my area, including the farmer's coop guys who regularly haul feed, seed, and supplies, and tow anhydrous ammonia trailers to farmers, etc. Most of them are now on 6.0L gas instead of diesel.

bwh2003 · February 26, 2015

You also need to factor in resale value from the duramax. You get significantly more cash for the diesel down the road. So your cost of ownership may be higher but you may be able to make up some of the difference if you sell the vehicle 10 years down the road. The market views the motors differently the higher the mileage gets with it always favoring the diesel.

Example 2011 GMC 2500 with 100000 miles, 6.0 is $23,849, Dmax is $30,264. Pretty close to $6,500. The option in 2011 was $7,195.

Cowpie · February 26, 2015

Of course, that is assuming a bit much. The newer emissions stuff on these is so problematic at higher mileages that the resale value might not materialize down the road for each user. A lot of assumptions are based on days gone by on diesels that were allowed to be diesels. So much has changed since DPF's, SCR/DEF, etc has come on the scene. Take a look at the commercial truck market.... many of the pre-EGR stuff is going for a higher price on the used truck market than the newer used trucks with emissions stuff on them. In some cases, almost having to give them away. I get bombarded with emails from GE Capitol and other financial backers that are trying to sell me used commercial trucks. The traditional used truck resale values just don't have the spreads that they did in years gone by. I only bought one time, a used emissions truck. That will never, I repeat, NEVER happen again. I will only buy new, or do it like I did with my 2013 Freightliner.... buy a new chassis/body and drop in a pre-emission factory rebuilt engine in it. I am not going to play with someone else's emission component problems.

But it could be true that a potential buyer will pay the resale values you claim. After all, there are a lot of naive people when it comes to diesels. And somehow, many believe their testosterone level will go up if they own a diesel, so there will always be a market for that group.

becker87 · February 26, 2015

Improved resale value of a diesel is a fact, go look it up. Don't go hatin on people with diesels just cause they want one, it's their choice, not yours.

Cowpie · February 26, 2015

You are correct, it is their choice. But cost of operation is still in favor of the gas version. One thing you left out of your value on the resale game is the actual increased maintenance cost of the Dmax over the gas. I didn't factor that in either. When we do, your resale affirmation dissipates pretty quickly. Those numbers don't lie. I run commercial trucking operation and that is one of my many hats, to determine cost benefit ratios. But people will throw money at stuff just because they can. Diesel does have a place in the scheme of things, but it is highly overrated as something many people actually need. And we seem to never hear much from those folks that were less than disappointed that they bought one after they had a complete SCR/DPF system go south, or EGR cooler take a dump (in worse case, require engine rebuild), or the CAC start to leak. Maintaining a diesel properly can really take away the "how neat" factor in short order. Gas setups are a little more forgiving. As I stated, diesel has it's place and there are situations where it is the best choice, especially heavy towing and commercial use on a regular basis. But there is a hefty price to pay overall for the Duramax badge on the hood. But those that have intimate experience with all this new diesel emissions stuff already know this. They just hope the buyer they resale to doesn't.

310racing · February 26, 2015

You are correct, it is their choice. But cost of operation is still in favor of the gas version. One thing you left out of your value on the resale game is the actual increased maintenance cost of the Dmax over the gas. I didn't factor that in either. When we do, your resale affirmation dissipates pretty quickly. Those numbers don't lie. I run commercial trucking operation and that is one of my many hats, to determine cost benefit ratios. But people will throw money at stuff just because they can. Diesel does have a place in the scheme of things, but it is highly overrated as something many people actually need. And we seem to never hear much from those folks that were less than disappointed that they bought one after they had a complete SCR/DPF system go south, or EGR cooler take a dump (in worse case, require engine rebuild), or the CAC start to leak. Maintaining a diesel properly can really take away the "how neat" factor in short order. Gas setups are a little more forgiving. As I stated, diesel has it's place and there are situations where it is the best choice, especially heavy towing and commercial use on a regular basis. But there is a hefty price to pay overall for the Duramax badge on the hood. But those that have intimate experience with all this new diesel emissions stuff already know this. They just hope the buyer they resale to doesn't.

I agree with your assessment 100%.

I don't have a problem with 1 out of every 3 teenage boys parents getting them one, I just shake my head and wonder why.

I had gas for years, went to diesel in 08, back to gas at the end of 13. I did tow a camper, but diesel was not needed, but helped.

Not hating on diesels or their owners, just saying the majority riding around any town USA don't need them, they want them, and there is a lot of extra cost the average owner didn't factor in at time of purchase.

SILVER SLED · February 26, 2015

If you don't need a diesel, don't get a diesel. Big cost of entry, and if you don't use the diesel like it should be it can lead to problems down the road. I've seen many "babied" diesel have alot of carbon build up issues in the egr, egr cooler, turbo...

KMGZ400 · February 26, 2015

there are no known oe across the board problems with the emissons systems on the duramax or even the DEF for that matter (other then DEF freezing).. many guys running bone stock LML's with over 200k no issues.. go read up on some of the duramax forums. also to argue the resale of a duramax over a gasser is insane, a loaded up duramax with over 150k could still go for 25k plus.. a gasser would retain nowhere near as much value

Cowpie · February 26, 2015

Everyone seems to be stuck on the resale gig. Until a person gets there, they have to pay to run the darn thing. And it costs more to operate a diesel than a gasser. Resale may or may not be there when they get ready to sell. The buying public will determine that. But one thing that can be known, is the cost of the initial buy, and the cost of operation both in fuel and maintenance. I still contend quite comfortably that unless someone has a definitive need for a Dmax, for serious regular heavy towing, business, etc, it is not going to be cost effective to own one. It sure can't be for longevity, which diesels are noted for, since everyone seems to be arguing the 100K-150K resale mileage. Peaches and cream for even a gasser. I typically don't consider I have gotten full use out of an engine till 1 million miles or 20,000 hrs. But then, I buy them for business.

And lets face it, the primary reason that diesel pickups have a higher resale value is the OOH AAH factor. Some folks just need to make a social statement. So there will always be a willing crop of buyers that will spend their money on one. Most will never even use it to even half of it's true potential, but by God, they have to impress others that they have a diesel, as if it increases their testosterone level. I even ticked on one guy one time that had a 3/4 ton Dmax when I pulled up beside him with my Jeep Liberty Diesel that had "Turbo Diesel" emblem on the hood. Like it was some form a taking away from his ego. That goes on more than folks like to admit. It is all about ego.

I guess I can see thru this a little more. I buy, on average over 21,000 gallons of diesel a year. I pay as much or more for individual diesel engines than most folks pay for their entire new pickup. I am on very intimate terms with diesel engines, their capabilities, and their flaws. And as a business owner, I know how to do serious number crunching on the cost effectiveness of vehicle and equipment purchases.

Folks are more than free to spend their money how they like. We see that with various mods people will do to their pickups. Thank God we live in a land where we are free to do these things and make fools of ourselves.

kstruckcountry · February 26, 2015

Some people just like the way a diesel drives. And if you can get the fun factor for $8000, you're saving money compared to the guy who buys a sports car for the fun factor. I spend a lot of time in diesel pickups and equipment and wouldn't mind having one as a DD myself.