99' Silverado 4.8 engine sludge build up

99chevEph3:16 · September 30, 2014

Hello, I'm new to the forum. Glad to be here and I hope this finds you all well. I'm looking for some advice from more experienced people than myself.

I bought my first truck a couple weeks ago. It's a 1999 Silverado 1500 4.8L 4x4 ext cab Z71 with 209,000 on it. I got it for $2,500 and it ran great at first. I took it on a 600 mile trip to pick up a motorcycle and a trailer. The truck ran amazing the whole time. I went to drive it a day later and when I fired it up there was a terrible ticking noise coming from the engine. I shut it off and towed it to the shop.

The shop told me there is some sludge build up in the engine and it caused 1 lifter to stick. They gave me three quotes. 1.) $800 for the 1 lifter. 2.) $1,600 for all 16 lifters and sludge clean up. 3.) $1,800 for an engine swap (plus another $550 for an engine w/ 86k on it).

My question is.. Which of the three quotes should I choose? Or are there other routes I could take? The truck has new fuel pump, battery, starter, and alternator. However, it has a decent amount of rust on the rear fenders and the rockers are just about rusted away. I can fix the fender rust myself. I'm 22 and in my last year of college so money is still pretty tight. Not sure if it's worth putting big money into it. What do you think?

ifixedit · September 30, 2014

Hello,

I am new to this forum as well, so far so good! First off, the shop you took it to should know better than attempting to replace one lifter without suggesting anything else first. They should darn well know that all that is likely needed to correct the problem is a simple engine flush, but what many shops do in this day and age is prey on those that are less informed on mechanics and vehicle maintenance and charge ridiculous amounts of money doing uneeded work if they can get away with it!

The problem you are experiencing is fairly common when the clock gets up to that 200,000+ miles. I have a 1998 Yukon I bought in 2000 when it had 77,000 miles on it, it now also has 209,000 miles and has the 5.7 (a.k.a good old 350) and still runs very good but a few years ago had the exact same problem as you. After the truck had sat one winter, I would start it up and sometimes it ran just fine, then on the next start-up a lifter would be hammering like crazy and would not stop, even if I shut it down and started it again it would do the same. I had a collapsed lifter and so do you. Basically what happens over the years is the gunk inside the engine builds up in places, blocks the oil passage to the lifter and the lifter gets no oil so it won't pump up and you get the resulting clicking.

Luckily there's a very simple and cheap fix for this rather minor problem without having to tear into the engine and spend big bucks, so get your truck out of that shop and pass on the expensive repairs for now. Go down to the local hardware store or home improvement store and pick up at least a quart or two of kerosene, the stuff used in portable heaters, make sure what you are getting is kerosene and not something else. With at least 4 quarts of oil in the engine, add 1-2 quarts of kerosene. Although this is an old trick that's been done a million times with success, I take no responsibility for the end result as there are too many variables, but I do at least recommend anytime you do anything concerning running the engine, especially with kerosene in it that you at least have the vehicle outside in the driveway. With the kerosene added to the oil already in the engine, start it up and allow it to run about a minute. In this time the lifter should stop ticking, if not shut the engine off and restart it again for another minute, this should most certainly take care of the problem. After the lifter has stopped ticking, just for good measure start the engine one more time and let it run again for about a minute. After you have done this immediately change the oil and filter and you are ready to go, so it's best you have 5 new quarts of oil and a filter on hand so you are ready to change the oil before you do this. Do not drive it around with the kerosene still in the engine!

Doing this I had to start my Yukon once and within about 15 seconds the lifter went from ticking like crazy to being completely silent like it should be and have not had the problem since. Basically what you are doing is simply giving the engine a quick flush but the engine oil is also there to lubricate the engine while you do this very short operation. The kersosene acts like a solvent and opens up and cleans the oil passeges so the lifter can pump up and operate as it should.

Another old trick is to add a quart of transmission fluid to the oil and do the same as I outline above but it takes longer, just go with the kerosene trick. I've done this a few times on a few different engines now wihtout fail. If it makes you feel any better, pay a visit to the local auto parts store and pick up a can of engine flush and follow the directions which should also do the trick.

Good luck and let us know how it works!

99chevEph3:16 · October 1, 2014

Ifixedit,

Thank you sir for the tip. I really appreciate the help and welcome any more tips you may have in the future. Unfortunately, the kerosene didn't work.

First, I drained the oil that was in the truck. It literally gooped out like rotten milk. It was so bad the clumps of oil would "thud" as they dropped to the oil pan. The clumps would plug the drain hole until they were pushed out by the normal looking oil. This process went on for 20 minutes. I guess the owner wasn't as honest as I had hoped or maybe he was unaware. Either way having a mechanic look it over before buying would have been a better decision, so it falls on me.

Next, I added 4 quarts of oil, 1 quart of kerosene, and a new filter. I ran the truck 3 times for 60 seconds but it didn't stop ticking. Then I added another quart of kerosene and ran it two times for 60 seconds but had no luck.

Do you think transmission fluid would work? Or is the sludge too bad at this point? Thanks for the help sir, I really appreciate it.

ifixedit · October 1, 2014

Ugh! Sounds like you may have other issues to deal with first. You say when you drained the oil it came out in clumps like rotten milk? This is NOT a good sign! Even if the maintenance on the engine was done very poorly and the oil was not changed on a regular basis you should not have clumps so bad it plugs the drain hole in the oil pan as the oil comes out.

Have you checked your radiator and cooling system to see if it's holding coolant? I would have suspicions that it is not and being you just got the truck you may not yet have yet noticed this as they usually lose coolant slowly but will be low about a half gallon or more after a few days to about a week. These years of 350's are very notorious for having intake gaskets that fail when you reach 100,000 + miles which allows the coolant to go directly into the crankcase. I in fact also had this exact same problem with my Yukon but luckily caught it in time. A very easy way to tell if this is happening is either the coolant in the radiator is low when you remove the cap and look inside the radiator, or when you pull the dipstick the oil level is above the full line and is very milky in color which would indicate coolant is getting past the intake gaskets and into the crankcase. The orginal problem with these years is the stock intake gaskets over time would get eaten up the DexCool anitfreeze and they would eventually fail causing the leak of coolant into the crankcase. Unfortuneatly what most do it yourself mechanics that don't want to deal with it do thinking they will correct the problem is they add a ton of radiator or head gasket 'stop leak' to the coolant system which does nothing but makes the problem worse. Because there is stop leak going into the crank case along with the coolant, it will eventually clog everything up which would most definitely cause the clumps in the oil and the ticking lifter(s) you mention.

If my guess is correct, this is likely why the truck came up for sale in the first place as the previous owner was looking to do a quick band-aid fix and dump it because they didn't want to spend some time and money on it, but don't lose hope just yet! Providing the oil pressure guage still shows decent oil pressure when you start it (around 30-40psi) you may be able to save it before it's too late.

This is going to take some elbow grease on your part and the removal and replacement of the intake gaskets, but go with the 'premium' intake gasket set (not the cheap standard set) which will run you around $70 and about a good full Saturday worth of work. After the new intake gaskets are installed, everything is back together and you have refilled the cooling system, you will need to add new oil, start and flush the engine (with that quart of Kerosene) at least 3 times changing the oil filter each time as well, run it for a minute or two each time and after about the third time the oil should be clear and draining like it should be and hopefully you're good to go. Due to the mess of all the extra oil to drain and deal with you might consider taking this to a shop to do but it won't be a cheap repair and hopefully the engine is still o.k., in my case it was.

Let us know how things turn out.

8.1HD/ALLISON · October 1, 2014

We used to run kerosene too. But i would add quart and run at idle for an hour +. Maybe try that a few times to clean crankcase.

ifixedit · October 1, 2014

I suppose there is the remote possibility the previous owner had the above described intake gasket leak and the stop leak / coolant getting into the crankcase issue, and perhaps did change the intake gaskets but just didn't flush the engine well enough afterwards or maybe didn't flush the engine at all.

First, you need to determine if the gaskets (possibly even head gasket(s) as well) are bad and are slowly leaking, a few things to look at: Look on the underside of the oil fill cap located on the valve cover, if it has white / tan / yellow colored gunk on the back side that's a sure sign something is going on concerning coolant getting into the engine either now or in the past. After the engine has been run is the oil on the dipstick milky colored, above the full line, or does it come out milky colored? Again check to see if the system is holding or losing coolant by looking in the radiator. The radiator hoses on an engine fully warmed up will also be hard as the system is holding pressure, if they're soft you've got a leak somewhere. One other thing, if there are bubbles coming up in the radiator with the cap off while the engine is running this is a pretty sure sign of a head gasket leak, but don't confuse this with the sudden surge of coolant puking out of the radiator cap opening, that usually just means the thermostat has opened and the sudden surge of hot coolant can do that.

To get the clumps in the oil like that the only thing I can think of that would cause it is something foreign in the oil now or previously (like stop leak) that would do that. With the number of miles you have on it, it should not have that much gunk inside the engine unless the guy was using used cooking oil! Stop leak is some nasty stuff, especially if it gets into the wrong areas and will really plug up the oiling system. In all my years of tinkering with trucks and cars I've never seen oil come out of an engine like you describe. I can also say this: If the oil came out looking like it did, a lifter or lifters replacement would be highly unlikely to solve the problem as it sounds like the oil passages are plugged with crud and that needs to be addressed first.

Might want to mix up a stronger solution of maybe 3 quarts of fresh oil and 2+ quarts of kerosene and like mentioned above, and just let her idle longer, I'd just hate to let it run too long with a lifter banging away as it could cause other valvetrain damage, but keep an eye and an ear on things while you do run it. If it has an oil pressure gauge keep an eye on it, you should see a minimum of 25-30 psi at idle, the more the better. You may have to repeat the process of draining and refilling with the kerosene cocktail a few times before things free up and the crankcase and oil passages are cleared of the boogers. You'll know when you drain the oil if it's clearing up or not, and hopefully the lifter will eventually stop ticking.

Keep us posted!

demonte1997 · October 3, 2014

A little late to the party here but curious if the OP was able to get a resolution on this.

To me, this sounds possibly like a intake manifold gasket leak with coolant mixing into the oil. I'd want to see pics or have a description of the color of the oil. Any mention of the word milk or clumpy leads me to that synopsis.

Again, it could be a host of other things but it's tough to solve over the internet.

Please post up more so that we can help with the diagnosis.

ifixedit · October 3, 2014

Curious as well after his last report on 09-30, I'm hoping to hear the end result. Maybe he's busy under the hood changing the intake gaskets as we speak and getting ready for round 3 of flushing.

99chevEph3:16 · October 4, 2014

Hello all,

Sorry for the delay. School and work were a bit hectic this week.

As of right now the ticking is about 10% of what it used to be! Today I ran the truck for 10mins with 4 quarts oil and 2 quarts kerosene in it. The ticking remained the same. I then drained the oil and changed the filter. With 4 quarts of oil, 1 quart of ATF, and a new filter (I filled the filter with straight ATF before screwing it on) in the truck I let in run for 60 seconds then drove 3 miles to my house. I shut the engine off at my house with the ticking showing no improvement. When I started the truck 10mins later the ticking was at least 50% more quiet. After driving 8 miles to my hunting spot the ticking is now at about 10%. I can't hear it unless I put my ear next to the wheel well.

Right now I'm sitting 22ft up in a tree feeling very blessed with a bow in my hand and a giant grin on my face. Thank you all for your help, you've played a large roll in saving me hundreds of dollars. This forum is fantastic!

*The color of the oil is natural, not indicating the presence of oil. However, the previous owner did state there is a small antifreeze leak, so I'm suspicious.

*Oil pressure is 41 at idle and 41-55 while driving.

Also, is there a way to upload photos on here? I can't seem to find a way. I have photos of everything.

ifixedit · October 4, 2014

Excellent! Glad to hear it's working, it must have really been gunked up inside your engine to take that long! The good thing is your oil pressure is very strong, pretty much normal, so there's no engine damage from the sound of things. AFT will take a little longer to clean up the inside of an engine, but the old timers I've run into that have done this say they would just start the engine and let it idle a half hour. The fact that your ticking has been reduced to next to nothing indicates whatever WAS plugged up for the most part is now clearing itself and should only get better with time. Don't run around too long with the AFT in it though and you're best off just like with the kerosene just letting it idle. Once the ticking has stopped (and for the most part it sounds like it has), you might want to hit it with the kerosene / oil cocktail one more time for good measure as even if it didn't appear the kerosene did anything at first, this is probably what got the ball rolling, did the majority of the cleaning, and as things played out was more just coincedence and timing.

At this point keep an eye on your coolant level. If it is indeed leaking / losing coolant, all you really need to do to know for sure is start it cold, add antifreeze until the radiator is full, also top off the plastic coolant overflow tank on the passenger side inner fender to the "cold" line and put the cap on and drive it a few days. Within that time if you are finding you are adding upwards of a quart to a half gallon of coolant you will know for sure you've got a leak somewhere AND would tell me what you had in your crankcase was indeed some kind of stop leak someone attempted to add in the past to do a "mechanic in a can" repair job. Also check your oil in the next few days to see if it gets milky colored, you will then know for sure it's time to get at those intake gaskets and pray it isn't a head gasket instead. From all that has happened, I'm guessing it's intake gaskets.

If it is slowly losing coolant and the oil is not turning milky colored, do not ignore it as you could end up with a catastrophic failure of the intake gasket(s) all at once without warning and you will dump large amounts of coolant into the crakcase all at once. This is what happened to my Yukon one moring last winter when my daughter went out to start it and a few minutes later came in and said it was not making any heat. I went out, found the temp gauge at 250 and immediately shut it down. The first thing I found was the radiator was empty and it was full the night before, I knew what I'd find next would not be good! I then pulled the dipstick and it was a milkshake about 3/4 of the way up the stick (it was also just fine and on the full line the night before). I spent the next few nights dissassmebling things and had it back together and running late that Saturday afternoon. 17 quarts of oil, about a gallon of kerosene, and 3 oil filters later it had suffered no damage and lives to tell about it to this day, but I still think of what would have happened if she had drove off that morning. It probably would not have been a good day for that 350 and it would probably be residing in a junkyard somewhere now instead of still being between the frame rails!

Not sure about the photo part here and how it works. Other forums I've seen in the past usually require the pictures are taken in no larger than a certain size and need to be uploaded from Photo-bucket or other similar website, but perhaps this forum allows you to upload them directly from your computer? Would like to see some photos of the ticking lifter project if you can figure it out!

Keep us posted.

99chevEph3:16 · October 4, 2014

Okay sounds good sir, I'll do those things and then check in some time middle to end of next week. Thanks again for all the help!

ifixedit · October 5, 2014

No problem! :-) Knock down bucky big horns for us, OK? ;-)

CapitalTruck · October 5, 2014

I was thinking Castech heads problem from the very beginning of this post. Also, FYI, the oil change capacity on a 4.8 is 6 quarts, be sure that regardless of what you do that you have 6 quarts in there. I wouldn't put more than one quart of a foreign material in with the oil (5 qts oil, one quart of whatever). But that's just me. You might have to take your oil pan off at some point and clean crap off of the intake screen. Theoretically you would be able to notice low oil pressure on the gauge to be made aware of this problem though (I think?)

99chevEph3:16 · October 13, 2014

Update:

No evidence of a coolant leak. However, I'm curious of how to clean the oil pan out? From what I've read online you need to drop the engine down to do take it off and clean the screen. Seems a bit over the top to me.

ifixedit · October 13, 2014

The kerosene treatment you've given it should have cleaned the oil pan and all else related pretty well, so you should be fine. Next time you change oil maybe hit it again with the kerosene trick.

How's the ticking at this point? Has it stopped?