Advice on GMT800 or GMT900 2500 Suburban

[calsdad]

I am currently driving a 2003 2500 4WD Suburban.

 

I really like the truck - but it's got some issues. Which has got me thinking about possibly replacing it. I can anticipate a need for a truck like this for possibly the next two decades. And Chevy doesn't make a 2500 series in the Suburban any more - so a new replacment is apparently not in the cards. What I'm thinking is that I would like to get a truck that I can keep around for possibly 20 years - I know the GMT800 trucks are potentially good for 300,000 miles - since I've seen a few with that type of mileage on them. I only drive mine 5-6000 miles a year.

 

One of my truck's big problems - is rust. The body itself seems to be good. But the undercarriage and frame need some help.

 

My first point of decision is - should I stick with a GMT800 - or maybe think about going to a GMT900 2500 series? It seems like the GMT800's are a little more "heavy duty" than the 900's. Also - I like the way the 2nd row seats fold down flat in my 2003, from all I can find out - the 2nd row seats don't fold flat in the 900's - is that true? I use this frequently to carry 4x8 sheets of plywood and lumber and so forth - having a useable 8ft inside the truck is one my major reasons for having a Suburban in the 1st place.

 

The way I see it - my options are:

 

1) Restore the 2003 I have now. Up to and including pulling the body off the frame - and doing a full cleanup and restore on the frame with the goal of keeping it from rusting out. I found a place locally that has a brand new frame for this truck - I might even start there if I decide to go this route. I've done a couple of car restorations in my past - so I'm pretty familiar with careful paint prep and rust prevention measures. I'd replace the brake lines with stainless - etc.

 

2) Find a later year (2005 or 2006) with low mileage - and start from there on prepping the truck to last a long time

 

3) Go to a GMT900 truck - knowing that I'd likely have to do work on it to prevent future rust issues there too.

 

 

Any and all advice is appreciated.

 

 

[servantsalesmen]

Just a quick question, why not a 2500hd truck? 8 ft bed, with a cap for the wood etc and you can get a crew cab if you're hauling people or an extended cab if you're hauling stuff and sometimes people.

 

Ultimately I think that your choice is going to come down to what you want to spend and how much time you are willing to have your current rig off the road. If you chose to restore the current truck, I'd just put it on a new frame. Probably more time and cost effective than fixing one that is already toast.

Edited March 2, 2015 by servantsalesmen

[calsdad]

Just a quick question, why not a 2500hd truck? 8 ft bed, with a cap for the wood etc and you can get a crew cab if you're hauling people or an extended cab if you're hauling stuff and sometimes people.

 

Ultimately I think that your choice is going to come down to what you want to spend and how much time you are willing to have your current rig off the road. If you chose to restore the current truck, I'd just put it on a new frame. Probably more time and cost effective than fixing one that is already toast.

 

I've had a few people ask me that one. Here's a few reasons:

 

I can get an 8ft sheet of plywood inside the Suburban (at least the one I have now). To do that in a truck - I'd need an 8ft bed. To put it "inside" means putting a cap on the pickup bed.

 

I can put 9 people inside the Suburban - and have done so on a number of occasions - I can't even do that with a pickup truck

 

Combining those two requirements would put me into a crew cab pickup with an 8ft bed. Which is probably another 3 feet longer than the Suburban is - and still doesn't give me the passenger capacity that the Suburban does.

 

For some reason the wife has a bug up her butt about pickup trucks - she just doesn't like them. It's irrational - but good luck fighting it.

 

A 3ft longer truck doesn't fit in my garage , a lot of parking spaces - is harder to drive - etc.

 

I've gone round and round on this and thought about it a LOT before going for the Suburban - and have been happy with getting it because it's done everything I've wanted it to do. I'm just trying to make sure I can continue to have a truck that does everything I want it to do.

[KMGZ400]

I personally would go for a GMT900 platform suburban.. The chassis is the same as the GMT800 HD chassis and the interior will be way better. The newer the better. IMO

[intheburbs]

The only advantage the GMT800 2500 trucks have over GMT900 are the availability of the 8.1 big block, and a receiver with a higher rating. On the GMT900, the receiver is part of the crumple zone, which forces it to be weaker and only rated to 500/1000 lbs.

 

Other than that, the GMT900 is superior in every way. Starting in '08 they got the six-speed transmission, and the VVT 6.0 is an awesome motor. Mine has 130K miles on it, and everything still works just like the day it rolled off the showroom floor. I do fully expect this truck to go to at least 250K. Six speed, power tailgate, reverse camera, remote start - none of that is available on GMT800.

 

I just beat the crap out of mine on our last vacation - dragged a 6500-lb trailer all over the US (5500 miles total) including the Rockies, and did about 30 miles of hard, frame-scraping 4-wheeling in Utah in 100°+ temperatures. Ran the transmission and engine temps up to the mid 230s with no issues.

 

I'm actually planning to buy a second one for my daughter. I'll probably get a '10 or '11 and give her my '08. Fantastic trucks. You won't be disappointed.

[calsdad]

Here's one question I have on the GMT900's : Does the 2nd row seat fold down flat and can you get a 4x8ft sheet of plywood in the back easily? I've seen some interior pics of GMT900 Suburbans and it looks like the 2nd row seats don't fold down flat.

 

Is there a difference between the way the 2nd row seats fold between the buckets and the bench seat?

[intheburbs]

I have middle row captains chairs, and they don't fold flat. I can't speak to the bench. But yes, I know what you mean - the bench in my '01 folds flat, so if you removed the third row, 4X8 sheets slid right in.

 

I haven't tried it in my '08, but I would expect you can slide in several sheets on top of the folded-down third and second rows. If you're talking about tens of sheets and really loading it up, probably not a good idea.

[calsdad]

I have middle row captains chairs, and they don't fold flat. I can't speak to the bench. But yes, I know what you mean - the bench in my '01 folds flat, so if you removed the third row, 4X8 sheets slid right in.

 

I haven't tried it in my '08, but I would expect you can slide in several sheets on top of the folded-down third and second rows. If you're talking about tens of sheets and really loading it up, probably not a good idea.

 

Ugh. I would actually prefer the bench seat for the 2nd row seat - so I'm hoping that would fold flat. I probably wouldn't be loading it up with dozens of sheets - but 10 or 12 is a distinct possibility. I've hauled a lot of pretty heavy stuff in the back of my current truck and I don't anticipate that usage pattern would change.

 

Intheburbs and KMGZ400- you guys mentioned that the GMT900 trucks have the same chassis as the GMT800 chassis ..... I checked the hitch on my 2003 last night and it says it's rated for 600 pounds tonque load non weight distributed - or 1200 pounds weight distributed. The tow rating is 6000 pounds / 12,000 pounds. So it sounds like going to the GMT900 would bump the ratings down to 500/1000 for the tongue weight - - and does the tow rating go down to 5000/10,000?

 

If the chassis is the same - am I correct in guessing that ultimately the chassis could handle towing more and the weak link is just the factory hitch itself?

[intheburbs]

I don't know about the chassis thing, but if I'm interpreting what KMG is saying, the GMT900 2500 chassis is the same as the GMT800 2500HD chassis, then that's probably a very good thing.

 

Regards to towing, yes, since the receiver is part of the crumple zone, it has to be scored/perforated (read: weaker) so that it crumples with the rear bumper. It's rated to 500/1000 and 5000/100000. From the perspective of ultimate towing capability, the GMT800 is better.

 

Yes, you can install an aftermarket receiver with a higher weight rating. I know that's what Duraburb does on their GMT900 conversions. However, keep in mind that the actual tow rating is lower than the receiver rating. The GMT900 2500s are rated at 9700/9300 (2wd/4wd) and the GMT800 was rated at 12,000 with the 8.1 and 4.10 rear. Since GM didn't rate the GMT900 at 10,000, I'm guessing that something besides the receiver is the limiting factor on the tow rating (brakes?).

[DuraBurb]

Yes there are 3 limiting factors

1) the 9.5 rear diff of the 2007 thus 9700 lb (the 2008+ got the 10.5 for a rating of 10K)

2) drive train power, the 6.0L just doesn't have the torque to pull that kind of weight (thus the GMT800 with the 8.1L and the 10.5 was rated at 12K even though its the exact same diff found in 2008+)

3) Receiver legal limit (this is why we do the ridged frame mount)

 

 

As for the frames GM never changed the 2500 frame from 2000-2013, they are all the same.

[02suburbanZ71]

How about you just have a duraburb conversion done? Or just get an 06 3/4th ton 8.1 burb with the 4l85e and 4.10's perhaps you can find it in "auto ride" with the LT

[Jsdirt]

I see you live in MA. It's no secret that car ownership in this wonderful state costs an arm and a leg. Here's how I look at things ....

 

A new car is nice ... if you can afford it. If you have to make payments on a vehicle, you CAN'T afford it. People have a tough time with that one these days, but that's a fact.

 

On that point, whatever amount of money you sink into the 'Burban will still be MUCH cheaper than a newer one by a long shot. Not only purchase price, but you've got to factor in insurance, new registration, title, SALES & EXCISE TAX - those last 2 are the killers besides insurance. Older truck = less tax, & less costly insurance. +1 for old. The second you drive a new vehicle off the lot, you just lost money - even if you turn right around and change your mind, the dealer is going to knock a few grand off the price! Something to think about ...

 

Don't think because your driving an older vehicle that you can't make it friggin awesome. Accessories are limitless - all comes down to your budget. Do a little at a time as your budget allows. It's always great installing a new toy in your vehicle no matter the age. Like getting a new truck! Another bonus is in a few more years, you'll be exempt from emissions, which means then you can install any engine you want in it. That makes it REALLY friggin awesome. 502 BB ...

 

If you spend the time and money, and go through the truck from top to bottom, making changes where you think it needs it along the way (such as Polygrahite control-arm & sway bushings, Bilstein shocks ... and a gear vendors auxiliary transmission for double-OD & KILLER fuel mileage) you'll have a truck every bit as reliable - if not MORE reliable than new! Just look at all the problems guys have with the '14-'15 trucks. Could throw some real nice leather seats out of a wrecked Cadillac ... or have the existing ones reupholstered ... new carpets ... The choices are endless. Once you get over the emission hump of 15 years, they are virtually limitless.

 

Even if you end up spending just as much as a new truck cost, your still ahead of the game because your taxes are going to be MUCH lower. Not only that, but you've already taken the depreciation hit - if you take care of your newly restored truck, you can still get a good chunk of your money back years down the road. It's a win-win IMHO.

 

My personal preference is vehicles built '72 or older. No emission crap, no electronics, no crumple zones - just solid American iron that will outlast all of us.

 

If I were smarter I would have taken my own advice back in '07 .... but what's done is done. I'll drive it into the ground, unless an El Camino falls into my lap that I must have. Then you'll see the Silverado up for sale.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Jsdirt

[02suburbanZ71]

Or get the 8.1 suburban bore the block and just put marine heads on it along with a cam!

[intheburbs]

Yes there are 3 limiting factors

1) the 9.5 rear diff of the 2007 thus 9700 lb (the 2008+ got the 10.5 for a rating of 10K)

2) drive train power, the 6.0L just doesn't have the torque to pull that kind of weight (thus the GMT800 with the 8.1L and the 10.5 was rated at 12K even though its the exact same diff found in 2008+)

3) Receiver legal limit (this is why we do the ridged frame mount)

 

 

As for the frames GM never changed the 2500 frame from 2000-2013, they are all the same.

 

Not trying to nitpick, but my 2008 has the 10.5 rear, yet is still rated to 9700. Even the 2013 is rated to 9600/9400 according to the trailer life towing guide.

[DuraBurb]

yea your right, in the owners manual I believe the MFG recommendation is 9600-9700 but DOT doesn't acknowledge MFG ratings, they look at the receiver, yours should say 5K / 10K with load equalization

 

It's all really a mute point though because the 6.0L can barely pull my 6K boat out to the coast hunting from 4th to 6th screaming at 4000 RPM getting 8.5mpg and the only hills we have are overpasses :-)

My wifes Denali XL seen here, pulls it effortlessly at 70-72 mph at 17mpg and never shifts out of 6th, far more comfortable drive, no white knuckles LOL

 

 

I couldn't imagine what 9K+ would be like, the 8.1 (AKA poor mans diesel) is probably the better bet for a low cost alternative to a Duramax Suburban if one wants to pull big loads

Edited March 10, 2015 by DuraBurb