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(Off Topic, but) Question about 2015 Malibu Start/Stop Feature


Service1956

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Wife wants a new Malibu. The only thing that concerns me, is the start/stop that this car has. The only thing I cannot help to think about, is the idea of having to replace the starter in it more often then normal! That, and the small battery that powers the electrical items during a stop (engine shut down). It would also seem like the main battery would have a shorter life as well.

 

Any comments from people that possibly would know more about this system?

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I cringe at the thought of this car when it's 10 years old. Good God Almighty ... the troubleshooting sequence would keep me awake at night! A big NO THANKS from me ...

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Any vehicle that requires a "web based training course" just to understand ONE system, I think I'd pass on ... just MHO ...

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Any vehicle that requires a "web based training course" just to understand ONE system, I think I'd pass on ... just MHO ...

 

I much prefer to be able to read up on this sort of stuff online for free then to have to purchase/subscribe to a manual. The way it is described in that link, the average driver does not need to know the details to operate the car.

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I much prefer to be able to read up on this sort of stuff online for free then to have to purchase/subscribe to a manual. The way it is described in that link, the average driver does not need to know the details to operate the car.

That's the ultimate goal.
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I hear you there Doug ... but my point was, an entire "course" just to understand one system in a vehicle tells me that system has more complexity than it should.

 

I wish auto makers understood the phrase, "KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID!" It seems they go above and beyond purposefully engineering overly complex systems to ensure buyers never lift their hoods. This is one of the main reasons I'll never buy a new vehicle again.

 

Then, there is this little tidbit I was reading about John Deere & GM. If this is how they feel, and if there is any truth to this, I will make sure not ONE DIME of my money EVER finds it's way to EITHER company:

 

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

 

There is one basic flaw in John Deere's and GM's logic. They do not own the hardware, only the soft/firmware running on it. If John Deere and GM win this, then you will have to apply that logic even deeper in the abyss. GM or John Deere have no interest or partnership in companies that manufacture the semi conductors that are the base of any digital system.

 

What do own though is the software/firmware installed on those semi-conductor based systems. Chances are that both GM and John Deere are also licensing code from some other company. Doubt either of them wrote the BIOS running on their PCM/ECM/TCM etc. This is exactly the same as your home computer. You own all the actual hardware, and you have a license to use software from the company that wrote that software.

 

The reason you can only get a license to use the software is simply due to copyright ownership. If you actually purchase the software, that also gives you the source code. I doubt most have any issue with them retaining ownership of the software. This keeps GM liable for the operation of the software, provided it is un-modified.

 

Some of the arguments provided in that article are taken way out of context, and being reported as being fact. Something he does not seem to want to address is who's name is listed as being the author or source of the firmware that someone has gone in and modified? I think you will find the original author is still listed as the author. Lets say something happens with the modified software, resulting in the death of someone. It goes to court, with the author being found liable even though he did not make the changes. Done correctly, any firmware can be modified and appear to be never modified. Problem with written words, you can never prove you did not write it. Remember, digital records are easy to alter when not encrypted.

 

What manufacturers should be doing is allowing the consumer to remove the software they do not like, and install their own. Or, make the software an option on the order form. If the standard installed software does not do what you want it to, Find software that does do what you want it to do and order the vehicle without the software installed. There are quite a few off the shelf injection systems out there now. Use one of those instead. That would be the fair thing to do.

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My bad...thought it was the other one. Is it a belt driven starter/ alternator?

 

The current start/stop system on the 2.5 is not something you would even notice in the engine compartment from what I can find online. It is a mechanically simple system, shuts off when stopped (and all other parameters are met), then starts engine once brake is released(or other parameters are met). Dual batteries are likely the only give away. Did not find how it is handling the vacuum in the brake booster with engine shut off. Does it use a vacuum pump instead of engine vacuum now? Otherwise the driver will not have power brakes available if they shift their foot around while stopped. Or they will have a very short period of no power assist while engine is restarting. I am describing what would happen when you are sitting at the lights and alter your foots position on the brake pedal.

 

I was standing at a corner downtown recently next to a stopped car with the stop/start system on it. I found the sound of an engine starting when you don't expect to hear it a bit unnerving.

 

Going a bit off topic here, but, anyone know whatever happened to the lithium-iron batteries that were coming out a few years ago? These batteries were a lot lighter than AGM, smaller dimension as well. Last I saw they were coming out for bikes, but seem to have disappeared.

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I tried a lithium iron battery in a dual sport motorcycle a couple years back. Total WASTE of $50. The thing turned into a paperweight in less than 2 minutes. If the voltage ever goes below 11v, instant paperweight. Also, if voltage goes above a certain voltage, not much higher than a couple volts above what it is at rest, also makes it a paperweight. Total useless POS.

 

I returned the one I fried .. argued with the guy on the phone, because he told me this was a perfect application for it (and knowing what I knew at that time about them, I agreed) - he reluctantly sent me another. Fried that one in about 5 minutes! Rode the bike to the bank and back, and threw it on my charger on the AGM setting as recommended - 3 volts the next morning.

 

Don't ever waste your money on one. Automotive charging systems are not compatible for one (no matter what they tell you), and if you like to listen to your radio with the engine off, your asking for trouble. Apparrently I'm not the only one this has happened to, so that should be the end of those things, thankfully.

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I was looking more for the motorcycle actually. I first heard about these batteries just before my last back surgery, and at the time, the battery in my 02 FZ1 was acting up. I knew I was going to be off the bike for a year or so (or so I thought), I would wait until it was nearing time to get the bike back on the road. I did the major storage procedure on the bike and covered it up. 5 years later and I may be able to get back on it this year, need to finally get a battery. The weight difference and at the time the performance claims, made the battery sound too good to be true. Sounds like waiting actually worked out for a change.

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I hear you there Doug ... but my point was, an entire "course" just to understand one system in a vehicle tells me that system has more complexity than it should.

 

I wish auto makers understood the phrase, "KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID!" It seems they go above and beyond purposefully engineering overly complex systems to ensure buyers never lift their hoods. This is one of the main reasons I'll never buy a new vehicle again.

 

Then, there is this little tidbit I was reading about John Deere & GM. If this is how they feel, and if there is any truth to this, I will make sure not ONE DIME of my money EVER finds it's way to EITHER company:

 

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

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Wife wants a new Malibu. The only thing that concerns me, is the start/stop that this car has. The only thing I cannot help to think about, is the idea of having to replace the starter in it more often then normal! That, and the small battery that powers the electrical items during a stop (engine shut down). It would also seem like the main battery would have a shorter life as well.

 

Any comments from people that possibly would know more about this system?

Wife has same powertrain in her lacrosse...just hit 48k. No issues period. The fact you can jump yourself off is really cool. Walked her through the process. The starter/generator is massive...the only thing that is odd is the belt change interval. Most vehicles it's simply check them...this one is time change.

 

Wouldn't sweat the battery size. The car manages the charge state to maximize longevity. In fact you can't set still for too long before the engine restarts itself....even with the air conditioning in eco.

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I cringe at the thought of this car when it's 10 years old. Good God Almighty ... the troubleshooting sequence would keep me awake at night! A big NO THANKS from me ...

 

With any luck it is designed to "fail safe". This is one of the few times I am happy being as old as I am. By the time this stuff starts acting up, I won't care.

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Wife wants a new Malibu. The only thing that concerns me, is the start/stop that this car has. The only thing I cannot help to think about, is the idea of having to replace the starter in it more often then normal! That, and the small battery that powers the electrical items during a stop (engine shut down). It would also seem like the main battery would have a shorter life as well.

 

Any comments from people that possibly would know more about this system?

http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=4453

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Wife has same powertrain in her lacrosse...just hit 48k. No issues period. The fact you can jump yourself off is really cool. Walked her through the process. The starter/generator is massive...the only thing that is odd is the belt change interval. Most vehicles it's simply check them...this one is time change.

 

Wouldn't sweat the battery size. The car manages the charge state to maximize longevity. In fact you can't set still for too long before the engine restarts itself....even with the air conditioning in eco.

 

That is the eAssist system which is no longer available on Malibu. Was called the ECO model. This is the 2.5 Ecotec with start/stop system. It is standard equipment on all 2.5 Ecotec Malibu trims. Check my other post above.

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Starter motors have become a lot more efficient in the last decade or so. Was not that long ago that battery technology was still the same as 100 years ago.

The change to gear reduction starters was long overdue. Starter motors now have a longer life. Can't really compare starter/battery life from the 70's to what we have now. They are so different, it has become apples and oranges. Not only the battery/starter technology changed, the entire engine/electronics have changed as well.

 

I think the best way to think of what you are asking is to think of how long a starter used to last, then, divide that by 3 or 4 (start/stop systems must start engine at least 3 or 4 times more than what used to be normal). GM has already agreed to cover that system for 3 years/60k. On the surface it would appear that GM is going to take a beating on warranty claims for starter motors, with them having to replace them a couple of times under warranty if everything is equal. To my way of thinking, starter/battery life will not be as bad as it appears on the surface. This would not stop me from purchasing a vehicle with this system on it.

 

Not sure the delay before being able to move is a good thing though. Currently we have an issue with how long before the 10th car in line can start moving after the light changes. Theoretically every car in line should be able to start moving at the exact same time, provided they are all synchronized for acceleration and reaction time. But they are not. If having to wait a half second for the car to start, that will add a half second to the time to wait before moving. Those half seconds add up. We are fast approaching having the light change from green to amber before the 10th car in line even starts moving.

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