Towing with 6.0 Engine? Or Do I Really Need A Diesel?

Badass69 · December 8, 2015

Huh.... lol. Nope... not a square port headed 3/4 ton one I would not. I own probably more 6 liter engines than most people here. ... I'm good. But thanks for thread digging wildchevy! You really are amazing.

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Z71 CC LB · December 10, 2015

Wild chevy...thread digging......I just thought your statement was pretty harsh. I just don't put much stock in posts like this. Just insulted every 6.0 HD owner that bothered to read this. You turned the question into a personal back and forth with cowpie....I read the post because I have asked myself the same question. I have owned two duramax Silverados and now have a 6.0...The diesel did not work in my situation, low miles and infrequent towing. The 6.0 is a dog and useless in an HD pick up. Got it.....I guess I made a mistake not spending the extra 8-10k for a diesel that will cost ridiculous amounts once the problems start....and they will.....if used the way I do. Thanks for the info...

Valleypatroll · December 11, 2015

I own 7 work trucks, 4 dmax, 3 6.0. Ranging from years 2001 to 2013. I have yet to have a 6.0 break before the dmax. I have one 6.0 with 435,000 miles on it. Could I have bought a dmax for my personal vehicle? Sure. Did I? No, I got a 6.0

bwh2003 · December 11, 2015

Wild chevy...thread digging......I just thought your statement was pretty harsh. I just don't put much stock in posts like this. Just insulted every 6.0 HD owner that bothered to read this. You turned the question into a personal back and forth with cowpie....I read the post because I have asked myself the same question. I have owned two duramax Silverados and now have a 6.0...The diesel did not work in my situation, low miles and infrequent towing. The 6.0 is a dog and useless in an HD pick up. Got it.....I guess I made a mistake not spending the extra 8-10k for a diesel that will cost ridiculous amounts once the problems start....and they will.....if used the way I do. Thanks for the info...

I don't agree with you statement. You spend an extra 8-10k but you get it right back out of it when you sell it. Everyone focuses on the extra amount but never think about it factored into sale price. It drives me nuts.

Cowpie · December 12, 2015

That would be true, if we were talking only about pre-DPF/SCR pickups. Time will tell what the ratio of cost to resale actually is over time. I know I will probably get some grief for this, but will use the analogy anyway.

Current new Class 8 truck with factory remanned, pre-emission motor... roughly $122K

Current new Class 8 truck with new emission motor, similar specs... roughly $150K

2012 used Class 8 truck with the pre-emission motor and 500K miles... roughly $72K asking price.

2012 used Class 8 truck with all the emission stuff on board and 500K miles... roughly $72K asking price.

The used pre-emission trucks lost about 50K in value, but the emission trucks lost 78K in value. Both of them same model year and similar specs. I was doing some down time glancing over used truck values recently from a wide range of dealerships and came up with the average numbers for used values. I would be willing to bet a paycheck that when it comes to haggling the final price, a potential buyer will not be able to talk the pre-emission truck down from asking price very much as they will be able to with the emission trucks.

So, yes, the residual is still there with the less complicated pre-emission engine trucks, but the emission varieties are taking it in the shorts. I figure a similar situation will happen once a lot of emission equipped pickups start hitting the used car lots. Past residual averages we have seen from earlier model diesels will not apply to the newer varieties. I, for one, would not be inclined to buy a used DPF/SCR equipped diesel pickup, unless I knew the entire detailed maintenance history and the owner personally. If those conditions not met, and if I truly had the need for a diesel, I would just buy new. I am not going to assume someone else's problem child, especially since the newer diesels are so laden down with so many things that can go wrong. I still contend that Scotty from Star Trek fame had it pegged... "the more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain".

bwh2003 · December 12, 2015

That would be true, if we were talking only about pre-DPF/SCR pickups. Time will tell what the ratio of cost to resale actually is over time. I know I will probably get some grief for this, but will use the analogy anyway.

Current new Class 8 truck with factory remanned, pre-emission motor... roughly $122K

Current new Class 8 truck with new emission motor, similar specs... roughly $150K

2012 used Class 8 truck with the pre-emission motor and 500K miles... roughly $72K asking price.

2012 used Class 8 truck with all the emission stuff on board and 500K miles... roughly $72K asking price.

The used pre-emission trucks lost about 50K in value, but the emission trucks lost 78K in value. Both of them same model year and similar specs. I was doing some down time glancing over used truck values recently from a wide range of dealerships and came up with the average numbers for used values. I would be willing to bet a paycheck that when it comes to haggling the final price, a potential buyer will not be able to talk the pre-emission truck down from asking price very much as they will be able to with the emission trucks.

So, yes, the residual is still there with the less complicated pre-emission engine trucks, but the emission varieties are taking it in the shorts. I figure a similar situation will happen once a lot of emission equipped pickups start hitting the used car lots. Past residual averages we have seen from earlier model diesels will not apply to the newer varieties. I, for one, would not be inclined to buy a used DPF/SCR equipped diesel pickup, unless I knew the entire detailed maintenance history and the owner personally. If those conditions not met, and if I truly had the need for a diesel, I would just buy new. I am not going to assume someone else's problem child, especially since the newer diesels are so laden down with so many things that can go wrong. I still contend that Scotty from Star Trek fame had it pegged... "the more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain".

Can we for once talk apples to apples instead of apples to oranges? I appreciate that you know a ton about semi trucks but that is not relevant here as their value is based on several factors beyond a 2500 or 3500. You know that there are trucks on the road from 07 on that have SCR/DPF equipped right? They are being resold and, if you look at resale values, I am not seeing a large drop for the diesel trucks. They are still option cost higher than the 6.0. If the diesel was that bad of an option you would see people rushing to acquire gas trucks thus the value would be close to or higher than the diesel based on supply and demand. That is simply not happening in the 2500/3500 market place (again stop talking semi trucks). I am not in any way implying the 6.0 sucks, it definitely is a reliable motor, but you have to stop trashing diesel in your own way every chance you get. We all understand you hate emissions, we all do for that matter but most of the trucks are reliable and work great for many years. You have to remember you always hear the problems on forums while millions of users drive them everyday without issue. I wanted the diesel for the power and driveability. I have never regretted my decision. In fact if you look at trade in value, I can trade my truck right now for more than I bought it.

Real comparison:

New '16 gas 2500 truck: $59,300

New '16 diesel 2500 truck: $67,400

Used '11 gas 2500 70,000-100,000miles: $20,000-$27,000

Used '11 diesel 2500 70,000-100,000 miles: $31,000-$41,000

In case you miss the obvious, the emissions trucks are holding their value just fine. Just to be clear, I am not bashing you in any way, I just want you to stop trashing the diesel trucks. The diesels are working fine and there are still plenty of buyers, in addition they are holding their value over the 6.0 as they always have.

Cowpie · December 12, 2015

You do have issues. I never trashed diesels... I own diesels. I am also a realist. And of course, I knew any analogy would get the ire up from someone. That is the risk whenever someone makes a comment that is not the religious parameters of GMism. And different areas of the country, diesel (and gas as well) resale values may or may not hold up as some would like. The only value to anything is what you can get for it. And when it comes to the newer emission diesels, irregardless of brand, used asking prices and what one actually gets are substantially different than previous versions.

Z71 CC LB · January 20, 2016

Wild chevy...thread digging......I just thought your statement was pretty harsh. I just don't put much stock in posts like this. Just insulted every 6.0 HD owner that bothered to read this. You turned the question into a personal back and forth with cowpie....I read the post because I have asked myself the same question. I have owned two duramax Silverados and now have a 6.0...The diesel did not work in my situation, low miles and infrequent towing. The 6.0 is a dog and useless in an HD pick up. Got it.....I guess I made a mistake not spending the extra 8-10k for a diesel that will cost ridiculous amounts once the problems start....and they will.....if used the way I do. Thanks for the info

I don't agree with you statement. You spend an extra 8-10k but you get it right back out of it when you sell it. Everyone focuses on the extra amount but never think about it factored into sale price. It drives me nuts.

Not sure what you don't agree with.I owned two Duramaxes.....they cost 8-10k more than a 6.0....Now I own a 6.0..... Never said anything about resale or the like. You obviously own a duramax.....Here in NY you will never get what you say for your used diesel....that's a fact whether you like it or not. Anything extra I got for resale ( I like to keep the truck for a while) would not come close to cost of service for the diesel. Resale is not the issue for me. Initial cost and PREVIOUS experience with service of a diesel IN MY SITUATION led to the purchase of the 6.0. As far as the first part of my initial post, I stand by it.

diyer2 · January 20, 2016

I just have to throw this out there.

My brother in law has a 1988 3/4 ton Chevy Work Truck, 5.7L, TBI, 4 speed, 4L80 trans, 410 gears with 160+K miles. He tows 10k pounds with it here in Colorado, limits his speed to 60 mph and yea he does not go over Eisenhower Tunnel at the sped limit.

It works for him.

JRKRACE · January 20, 2016

I forgot what this thread was originally for......

Sixstroke · January 21, 2016

I haven't been towing for 30 years, across 20 different trucks- so I am not some wealth of information.

I have however been towing a trailer weighing 3500lbs (14x7 tandem) for 6 months, nearly daily. It's generally loaded with anywhere from 2-4,000lbs, which gets close to it's GVWR.

That being said, I've got a Cheby 6.0 2500 and I've never had an issue- not a one. I've just rolled over 25,000 miles and I don't regret not getting the diesel. DISCLAIMER: While I purchased the truck, I do not pay for gas. But the $9,000 dMax option would pay for a lot of 93oct.

When coming up to a hill on the highway, sure, I depress my foot more than I would with a diesel. And yes, I've seen 8mpg with my bigger loads. But nothing has yet to jusitfy a diesel, personally.

Once diesels return to what they were, prior to crazy EPA BS, I'll consider getting one. Until then, I love my 6.0.

Gattorgetter · January 26, 2016

This has been an interesting and good read. I am in the same boat right now, looking to get a new truck and 5th wheel toy hauler (maybe), same boat as OP maybe not as much towing.( roughly 12 times a year within the state of Michigan) Everyone even when I ask about 2500 specific replies with 1 ton dually diesel, seems as it wouldnt matter if it was a pop up camper. I honestly dont know which will be better. Nor am I bashing either. I just dont know.

But what I do know (see) for that mater is according to GM's door stickers what the 2500 lack in towing cap it makes up for in payload, and what the DMax lacks in payload it makes up in towing cap.

Lucky for me I build the HD's, Flint Assembly here so I get to see lots of them rolling down the line, I also get to see the price tag's too.

Right now I am hellbent on the 2500 6.0, perhaps even in 3500 (for extra payload) because it will be a daily driver/boat hauler more than 5ver TH hauler. My issue is the towing cap for the 6.0, max is 14k. Most of the 5ver TH I have been looking at are 14ķish empty. No mountains to pull thru, and my max distance of hauling will be 400 miles and under(12 times per year) basically just have to get it from home to campground where is will stay. So with that said I am really having a time justifiying the DMAX, I know towing over the 14k cap is no bueno, but for some reason I think the 6.0 could handle it, just not often?

Again this thread has been very helpful.

Z71 CC LB · January 27, 2016

I was going to respond to another thread that you posted in but felt I had/have no real experience with the 6.0 towing heavy just yet. Just a 22 foot boat that is heavy for it's size and it was very easy to tow. I do have some with the duramax though. At the weight you are talking I would consider the 3500 duramax. Dually or SRW is up to you but I went dually my second time around and my 5th wheel trailer GVWR is 12065 dry is 9700. I went 6.0 this time because my daily driving just didn't work with the diesel. I had 64000 on a 2006 dually and durability was an issue. Not enough driving I guess. I only take one 500 mile trip a year and maybe a few local and I just couldn't and didn't want to justify another diesel just for that amount of towing. It pains me to say it but in your case, If you could swing it go diesel for it's ability to tow heavy. My dually felt the hills so I'm sure I'll be in the right lane doing a flintstones with my foot out the door pushing and waving to all the diesels going by me but at least I knew it would be the case from the start. Good luck! I'll be following your posts to see what you decide and how it goes from there.

Gattorgetter · January 27, 2016

Im in no hurry, and I may be in the same shoes you were. Who knows things may change in the RV or truck world come 2017. I havent seen anything new coming down the line that makes me run out to dealer right away. I am sure there are people towing over the cqp of 2500/3500 6.0, but getting them to talk about it without getting thrown under the bus may be hard. Some forums have the idea that you need a 1 ton dually diesel for a jet ski

Adamrg · January 28, 2016

Im in no hurry, and I may be in the same shoes you were. Who knows things may change in the RV or truck world come 2017. I havent seen anything new coming down the line that makes me run out to dealer right away. I am sure there are people towing over the cqp of 2500/3500 6.0, but getting them to talk about it without getting thrown under the bus may be hard. Some forums have the idea that you need a 1 ton dually diesel for a jet ski

Ha, there is some of that here, and most definitely over at df.

Hell, I towed roughly 5k lbs In my 96 s10 with no trailer brakes for the last couple years. Im not saying it was safe at all, and I wasn't winning any races, but it's what I had to work with, did what I needed it to do, and fueled my fire even more when everyone said I couldn't.