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Trying to decide Chevy diesel 2500 or Sierra 1500 gas


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The only problem that many without a trust fund or friend of Donald Trump, is that eliminating the EPA stuff effectively eliminates the drive train warranty. And it isn't a gray area warranty issue either. And the EPA is strong arming dealers, at least on the commercial level, to totally reinstall and bring engines back up to full EPA compliance on the customer dime. I would be willing to bet that they have also put Auto/Pickup dealerships on notice also, and it would be a crap shoot to put a gutted pickup in a dealership shop for any kind of work. So, that essentially means any so-called "authorized" repair facility is out of the question. Quite a price to pay for most folks. Spend $5-6000 more for the diesel to begin with, spend thousands to remove all the goofy stuff, and now have no warranty to speak of. Fine for those that have deep pockets, but not practical for the majority of folks. And it really limits the available folks who would buy the pickup later on resale. My first impression of any pickup that has had the emissions gutted, is that they may have also abused the pickup and I am buying a can of worms. No thanks. If one guts the emissions, they essentially have a pickup for life. I really couldn't be persuaded to buy a pickup that had the emissions gutted and megaphone exhaust end larger than the stacks on my semi. I see a problem pickup and would just walk away.

I spent about $1400 on a tune and exhaust (no megaphone). No deep pockets, just a hard working man that likes performance!

 

GM has to prove what I've done caused the warranty issue, I have 15K trouble free miles.

 

I disagree with the "if they gut the emissions, you have a pickup for life" sounds like a statement from someone who has no idea that an emission removed 2500 Duramax (used) is in higher demand then one with all the EPA BS still intact.

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Depends on the buyer at time of resale. It does limit the pool of available buyers and that can have a negative effect of what one could get for a pickup with changes made. Have you had a warranty issue with your motor and can verify the OEM has no problem with it? Your comments on that the OEM has to prove what you did speaks of relying on the Magnussen Moss warranty act, which does not cover alterations to OEM setup, only the use of non OEM parts or not using OEM facilities to effect repairs of stock OEM setup. Tunes, delete of components, etc are not addressed or covered by the MM warranty act. If it does cover such things, then by all means, share the wording of the act, the Federal Trade Commision guidance regarding the Act, and any legal precedence that the Act covers what you are describing so as to enlighten the forum members. It is one thing to use a non GM air filter or a oil not on a "approved" list, it is quite another to modify engine parameters or delete of OEM components.

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I believe in some areas removing any emissions will results in big fines. In my travels iv seen side of the road testing. In 95 I ran into one in NJ they were checking evrey other vehicle. I had gutted the cats on the V10 dodge and was sweating bullets on they way to a demo pulling a tractor on a fifth wheel. Got by cured me, got back to Texas put new cats on.

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Depends on the buyer at time of resale. It does limit the pool of available buyers and that can have a negative effect of what one could get for a pickup with changes made. Have you had a warranty issue with your motor and can verify the OEM has no problem with it? Your comments on that the OEM has to prove what you did speaks of relying on the Magnussen Moss warranty act, which does not cover alterations to OEM setup, only the use of non OEM parts or not using OEM facilities to effect repairs of stock OEM setup. Tunes, delete of components, etc are not addressed or covered by the MM warranty act. If it does cover such things, then by all means, share the wording of the act, the Federal Trade Commision guidance regarding the Act, and any legal precedence that the Act covers what you are describing so as to enlighten the forum members. It is one thing to use a non GM air filter or a oil not on a "approved" list, it is quite another to modify engine parameters or delete of OEM components.

 

You are correct, it does limit the pool of buyers. First let me state that my truck is the way it is with zero care for selling it to someone. That being said I was on the fence if I should tune/delete for the argument you have brought forward. As I've stated many times "no risk, no reward"

 

First time I read the MM warranty was in the 90's and of course as you know has been an act since I believe 1975 or 1976. Not sure if there has been any amendments to the act and frankly I simply don't care.

 

If an individuals installs header and highflow cats with exhaust along with a cold air system and has issues because the engine shifted lean without a tune, according to MM it's covered?

 

I've never had an engine warranty issue, I do have a friend who had a tuned 2012 Chevrolet Camaro with a 6.2ltr motor have a circlip (sp) come off a piston and the motor was replaced under warranty. Bottom line is it's up to the warranty officials at the MoCo, if they want to send a tech down to inspect.

 

Sorry for the highjack on the thread!

 

Mike

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Putting on headers is nothing more than changing one exhaust manifold for another. The same as changing out stock air filter for a K&N. Same with changing out cats for high flows. It is not even equitable to wholesale deletion of components. In this case, MM should apply. Remove the cats totally does fall outside MM and cuts the OEM loose to honor warranty. Same with emissions stuff on diesel. MM protects consumer if they use aftermarket parts. Doesn't cover for yanking them off and using nothing. The Federal Trade Commission guidelines are pretty straight forward on this.

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I just traded my Sierra 1500 for a Silverado 2500 diesel. For me it was because I have a 36' travel trailer and towing it with the gas 5.3, although possible, just wasn't much fun. Too much gear hunting.

 

Aside from that I loved my 1500. I've got to say the 2500 diesel is pretty sweet though. I literally just picked it up on Wednesday though, so I'll reserve the 'love' statement until I've had a chance to get to know her. [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I just traded my Sierra 1500 for a Silverado 2500 diesel. For me it was because I have a 36' travel trailer and towing it with the gas 5.3, although possible, just wasn't much fun. Too much gear hunting.

 

Aside from that I loved my 1500. I've got to say the 2500 diesel is pretty sweet though. I literally just picked it up on Wednesday though, so I'll reserve the 'love' statement until I've had a chance to get to know her. [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Congrats! You will fall in love with her, trust me on that!

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GM has to prove what I've done caused the warranty issue, I have 15K trouble free miles.

 

 

It's not that hard. If you tuned your computer, that interfaces with pretty much the entire truck. Now you can say the tune played a role in causing the failure. That may not be the primary factor in the chain of events leading to the failure, but it's a factor. Now you the little guy have to bring the time and money consuming court case against a corporation. You may win in the long run, but it's not really worth it at that point.

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Putting on headers is nothing more than changing one exhaust manifold for another. The same as changing out stock air filter for a K&N. Same with changing out cats for high flows. It is not even equitable to wholesale deletion of components. In this case, MM should apply. Remove the cats totally does fall outside MM and cuts the OEM loose to honor warranty. Same with emissions stuff on diesel. MM protects consumer if they use aftermarket parts. Doesn't cover for yanking them off and using nothing. The Federal Trade Commission guidelines are pretty straight forward on this.

 

This is where we disagree, putting on Headers, high flow cat and Cold air will effect fuel and air delivery. The ECM has a small learning capability and will adjust the fuel trims but not by much. In effect, something could go wrong and cause the engine to shift lean.

 

If you've every seen the result of an engine that shifted lean, it isn't pretty. I've seen the top of a rear piston completely blown off on a Harley and the end result was it took out the front piston and cylinder wall also. The owner had pipes and air intake installed, and didn't tune the motor. The air intake and the Dumb@ss mechanic were the culprit.

 

My earlier point was that MM was past long before the technology in todays auto industry.

 

Mike

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It's not that hard. If you tuned your computer, that interfaces with pretty much the entire truck. Now you can say the tune played a role in causing the failure. That may not be the primary factor in the chain of events leading to the failure, but it's a factor. Now you the little guy have to bring the time and money consuming court case against a corporation. You may win in the long run, but it's not really worth it at that point.

 

No it's not hard to see if the ECM/TCM or the BCM has been flashed. Couple years ago GM created a flash date parameter in each of these so it could be easily detected.

 

I'm not advocating that folks tune their vehicles. I personally have done it for the last 15-20 years with no recourse on several vehicles.

 

In fact my local dealership (owner) knows exactly what I've done and stands behind me in the event I do have a warranty issue, hopefully I never have to find out.

 

Pulling a trailer with 850 ft pounds of torque and this mileage IMG_0090_zps0vs6tlnr.jpg is my reward, I know the risk. Just saying........

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I have done ECM coding changes on my last two diesel semi trucks and dealers / OEM shops could give a rip. No one is checking. And we're talking about engines that, alone, cost almost as much as someone complete pickup truck. And I had some warranty work done on them, along with overhead valve adjustments and other stuff done at OEM shops. The key is to not even bring up anything about ECM. It is like dealing with police... don't say anything that might incriminate you. Regarding a EGR disable via ECM, doubtful anyone would even know or check since no parts removed to give anything away that something was done. And, ECM disables EGR periodically anyway, given certain load and altitude parameters. As long as power parameters and such are left alone, no one is likely to be checking anything.

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This is where we disagree, putting on Headers, high flow cat and Cold air will effect fuel and air delivery. The ECM has a small learning capability and will adjust the fuel trims but not by much. In effect, something could go wrong and cause the engine to shift lean.

 

If you've every seen the result of an engine that shifted lean, it isn't pretty. I've seen the top of a rear piston completely blown off on a Harley and the end result was it took out the front piston and cylinder wall also. The owner had pipes and air intake installed, and didn't tune the motor. The air intake and the Dumb@ss mechanic were the culprit.

 

My earlier point was that MM was past long before the technology in todays auto industry.

 

Mike

 

 

 

And I would have to disagree also. This is where the MM Act does apply. As I stated, headers are just a aftermarket replacement for an exhaust manifold. The OEM would have to prove, under the MM Act, that having them on caused any issue.

 

The same thing when I purchased my current semi truck. Before I took possession of it from the dealer, I had them replace the stock exhaust manifold with a ported, polished, ceramic coated manifold, Same principle as putting on headers. I also had them remove the stock waste gate turbo and replace it with a Borg Warner 171702 non waste gate version, a better match for maximum performance and fuel economy. Both of these not offered by the OEM or the dealership. I got the parts aftermarket. The dealer even put them on for me with no charge, and the warranty stayed in effect. And I had them put on a turbo blanket also! Even had a minor warranty repair done early in the game at another shop, and nothing was questioned.

 

Cliff

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