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My thoughts about the gas powertrain remaining unchanged


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4.10 has been a great ratio for a lot of stuff. My '68 Camaro had 4.10 in the back as did my '68 C10 pickup. My '98 2500 also had it. Not really sure why it is not offered as an option for the 1500. Used to be in days gone by.

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4.10 has been a great ratio for a lot of stuff. My '68 Camaro had 4.10 in the back as did my '68 C10 pickup. My '98 2500 also had it. Not really sure why it is not offered as an option for the 1500. Used to be in days gone by.

 

Probably because 1500's are figured into the CAFE numbers and the HD's aren't.

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That would be probably true. Thing is, in some locations and uses, 4.10 can be as efficient as, say, 3.42. It is all in how one drives the vehicle. I get only 1 mpg difference (lower) in my 2015 2500 6.0L 4.10 as I did with my 2013 1500 5.3L 3.42 setup. Not bad when considering moving 1000 lb more pickup and a larger engine.

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Just because a 1500 can tow 10K does mean it is a good idea. Hell 10K on 2500 is a lot of weight. I for one would not want to tow that much with a 1500 chassis. The frame, suspension and brakes, are they really up to the task for safety and longevity? This is one reason the 2500 / 3500 chassis is completely different and weighs 1000+ lbs more. In the HD class they are built to do it day in and day out. The 1500 class not so much,I think you would just tear the truck up if you towed heavy all the time. As far as the aluminum motor vs. cast iron, There is a reason engine builders that build high horse turbo and SC cars are using the old LQ4 and LQ9 blocks. They are just plain tough as nails.

I also agree 3.73 gears in an HD are just a bad choice. These trucks are just to heavy and needs the extra gearing of the 4:10. (or lower)

10k behind a 2500 is nothing...I've towed more than that with a 2500 Dodge Cummins all over the country and never once had any concerns about doing that...

 

I understand the differences between a 1500 and 2500/3500, been into 2500s since the 80s. What my point is getting at is that a chassis not any better equipped than a 2500hd, is rated for more than my 2500hd is rated. Other than carrying more weight, what justification is there to buy a 2500hd unless you want a Duramax?

 

Personally, this 6.0l feels very "detuned"...much like a stock Cummins is. Is this leaving the door open for increased numbers on paper? Is this to protect the drivetrain?

 

As far as gearing, isn't Ford offering 4.33s?

 

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

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10k behind a 2500 is nothing...I've towed more than that with a 2500 Dodge Cummins all over the country and never once had any concerns about doing that...

 

I understand the differences between a 1500 and 2500/3500, been into 2500s since the 80s. What my point is getting at is that a chassis not any better equipped than a 2500hd, is rated for more than my 2500hd is rated. Other than carrying more weight, what justification is there to buy a 2500hd unless you want a Duramax?

 

Personally, this 6.0l feels very "detuned"...much like a stock Cummins is. Is this leaving the door open for increased numbers on paper? Is this to protect the drivetrain?

 

As far as gearing, isn't Ford offering 4.33s?

 

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

The thing that many don't take in to account is that the HD's stop better than a 1500. The heavier chassis and brakes of the HD trucks makes it a better package.

 

I am wondering if they just open up the 6.0 a bit more to match the 6.4 Hemi.

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That would be probably true. Thing is, in some locations and uses, 4.10 can be as efficient as, say, 3.42. It is all in how one drives the vehicle. I get only 1 mpg difference (lower) in my 2015 2500 6.0L 4.10 as I did with my 2013 1500 5.3L 3.42 setup. Not bad when considering moving 1000 lb more pickup and a larger engine.

With my 2004.5 Dodge Cummins, I got as good or better mileage with a cast iron 6spd manual and 4.10s as most got with automatics and 3.73s...and the auto had a better OD ratio.

 

It all about how you drive...

 

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Just because a 1500 can tow 10K does mean it is a good idea. Hell 10K on 2500 is a lot of weight. I for one would not want to tow that much with a 1500 chassis. The frame, suspension and brakes, are they really up to the task for safety and longevity? This is one reason the 2500 / 3500 chassis is completely different and weighs 1000+ lbs more. In the HD class they are built to do it day in and day out. The 1500 class not so much,I think you would just tear the truck up if you towed heavy all the time. As far as the aluminum motor vs. cast iron, There is a reason engine builders that build high horse turbo and SC cars are using the old LQ4 and LQ9 blocks. They are just plain tough as nails.

I also agree 3.73 gears in an HD are just a bad choice. These trucks are just to heavy and needs the extra gearing of the 4:10. (or lower)

 

 

I haven't come close to exploring the towing limits of my 2500. But, what I have towed with it would have gone well over payload for the 1500. Four people, gear in the bed, and tongue weight from a trailer creep up fast on those 1500s.

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That would be probably true. Thing is, in some locations and uses, 4.10 can be as efficient as, say, 3.42. It is all in how one drives the vehicle. I get only 1 mpg difference (lower) in my 2015 2500 6.0L 4.10 as I did with my 2013 1500 5.3L 3.42 setup. Not bad when considering moving 1000 lb more pickup and a larger engine.

What kind of rpm is your 4.10 gear running around 60 mph also what size tires do you have

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Slightly off topic, but my Duramax is only rated to tow 13000.

I believe that is mostly due to the limitations of the hitch. Because on a fifth wheel/gooseneck application, the tow rating is much higher.

 

And that's OK as there aren't too many travel trailers that weigh that much without being a fifth wheel.

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What kind of rpm is your 4.10 gear running around 60 mph also what size tires do you have

 

 

around 1800 RPM at 60 mph on stock rubber. It is not just RPM, i.e. having it low, that makes an engine efficient. Just like there are HP and torque curves with an engine, there is fuel consumption curves also. The curve is in the form of a "U". There is a point were having RPM too low actually increased fuel consumption per hour just like having the RPM too high does the same thing. Unfortunately, the auto/pickup OEM's don't fill us in on this fuel consumption curve like the heavy commercial OEM's do, so we have to figure out how it lies. For my 6.0L, the best I have determined is that it is in the 1800-2100 range, which corresponds to the 2000 RPM level that the engine reaches 90% of available torque. The combination of effectively overcoming rotational inertia so that the engine isn't fighting it, along with being in an efficient power band, makes fuel consumption more efficient also on a gallon per hour rate. Probably why I consistently get 14 mpg average for all miles with the 2500 6.0L (gravel roads, off road, highway, in town, all of it) and can get 17-18 mpg on road trips. Far better than what a lot of other folks claim to get with their 2500 6.0L 4.10. If I had the similar setup in a 1000 lb lighter 1500, I have little doubt I would be well into the 20's on mpg on the same road trips.

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I believe that is mostly due to the limitations of the hitch. Because on a fifth wheel/gooseneck application, the tow rating is much higher.

 

And that's OK as there aren't too many travel trailers that weigh that much without being a fifth wheel.

 

ITs not just due to the hitch or the engine. It takes everything into account. Both the 2500 gas and diesel in CC SB 4x4 are rated for 13,000 conventional and 14,000 5th wheel. The gas trucks have more payload capacity because they weigh less.

 

-Eli

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The thing that many don't take in to account is that the HD's stop better than a 1500. The heavier chassis and brakes of the HD trucks makes it a better package.

 

I am wondering if they just open up the 6.0 a bit more to match the 6.4 Hemi.

This is so true. Having owned 4 new 1500's in the past 12 years and now a 2500hd there is no comparison on stability and braking of a HD truck. Even unloaded and not towing I now prefer the feel of the 2500.

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The thing that many don't take in to account is that the HD's stop better than a 1500. The heavier chassis and brakes of the HD trucks makes it a better package.

 

I am wondering if they just open up the 6.0 a bit more to match the 6.4 Hemi.

 

 

Well, the 2015 6.0L beat the 6.4L Hemi in the Ike Gauntlet pull test. And did it with 500 more lb gross weight. I would say it is more than a match for the 6.4L. But to be fair, the engine is only one part. It is how the entire drive train meshes with each other that provides the results. Displacement and HP/Torque numbers are a consideration, but how the drive train actually utilizes the the available power has as much to do with the performance. My semi truck's 12.7L 500 HP 1750 lb Torque Detroit will smoke a lot of 15L 500 HP 1850 torque engines on a hard hill pull with gross weight. Bigger doesn't imply better. How it is set up matters.

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