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Removing emissions controls


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#1 austingta

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 07:59 PM

I'm not really sure how smart it is to start off a new truck (with a Duramax) by removing the EGR, the DEF system, the cats, and often even the muffler, but I'd like to hear about it. 

 

I presume the warranty we paid a lot of money for would be completely thrown out when we do that, and

 

I'm guessing that our trucks will actually pollute a lot more without those items. Do we really not care about the air we breathe? I know that Los Angeles has MUCH cleaner air than 20 years ago, almost totally due to fewer emissions from motor vehicles. 

 

How do we pass inspection and renew our registration after this surgery?

 

Does the truck show its check engine light forever, or are there tuners, etc, that legitimize the issue?

 

How much better will the LML run, perform, and drink diesel, if at all?


Edited by austingta, 20 August 2016 - 08:04 PM.

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#2 Colossus

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 03:48 AM

If you have emissions testing in the area you live in, you'll need to have all emissions components installed, intact, and apparently operational.  They do a visual inspection to make sure the stuff is there, they also will connect to the on-board computer/OBD to ensure the emissions stuff is working as should be via the computer.  There is no fooling it or ways around it. 

 

If you removed the emissions equipment and have a proper tune done that addresses the removal of the sensors and equipment for the emissions system, then that is how you go about it.  There are delete kits and stuff out there, though I have no experience with this.  Someone else on here should be able to chime in, or you can go over to duramax forums dot com and there will be a ton of folks over there who have done this. 

 

By removing the EGR, DPF, and DEF- you will likely see a very noticeable increase in MPG and a reasonable increase in power as well.  You'll also likely be prolonging the life of the engine too, though some may argue that. 

 

If I could get around all the emissions crap issues I'm having on my 2012 D-Max I'd remove the stuff in a heartbeat, however I cannot do that because I live in an area that requires emissions testing for diesels every 2 years after the first 4 years. 


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#3 Cowpie

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 08:28 AM

Well to some degree that is all true.  But EGR can be tune disabled with no codes and such to show anything different.  EGR doesn't always work, as certain OEM specified conditions are met that keep it closed anyway, like altitude, certain power levels, etc.  Just disabling EGR is one of the primary things I look at first off with any diesel.   That one, lone step can prevent a myriad of problems and is relatively inexpensive to do.  No wrench turning involved, just a tune.  The downstream stuff is bad enough, but making a diesel eat its own soot laden feces is criminal.


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#4 Debra in Cali

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 10:17 PM

My oldest son did this on his 2012. Don't think that he did it the right way and did damage to his EGR and caused lots and lots of problems for himself.  When it came time to reconnect everything so that it would pass smog, he discovered the error of his ways. He ended up paying big bucks for someone to either replace some of the parts or repair some of the damage or both.  I hope that he has learned his lesson. In fact, he offered us his truck when he discovered that we were looking for a 2500. I told my husband that I wouldn't take that truck at any price since we don't know if he did permanent damage to some of the components of that truck. 


Edited by Debra in Cali, 11 September 2016 - 10:22 PM.


#5 ME3500

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 12:18 PM

My 2015 3500HD has plenty of power stock and gets 22.6-20.0 MPG(verified by calculator and connected Insight ProCTS2). I am not sure how much more you would gain from removing, but to me it does not seem like the cost vs gain for a DELETE would be worth it.

 

For me, 22.6 MPG (not towing) is just fine.



#6 WilliamBos

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 12:31 PM

The EPA is really clamping down on these companies that provide software for deleting emissions equipment.

 

Edge got it handed to them real bad...

 

http://news.pickuptr...ate-filter.html

 

People used to run their mouth about Gale Banks because he would not go there, and he was right from the get go.

 

I'm not a fan of the controls on the newer diesels, wont ever own one.  id rather a 2500HD gasser, even a few MPG less, in the end when the emissions starts giving troubles, the gasser will cost less.

 

Wasting fuel to run cleaner is the biggest crock ever.


Edited by WilliamBos, 14 September 2016 - 12:34 PM.

Thanks,

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#7 Cowpie

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 02:55 PM

The most cost effective change that would not be invasive and deliver most positive effect for the dollar is a simple shutting off of EGR via ECM code. Less soot, fewer regens, and usually helps fuel economy. EGR is controlled by ECM. Just have the ECM just not ever open it. There are already certain parameters where the EGR is reduced or shut off anyway.

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#8 Skeld

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 10:36 AM

My 2015 3500HD has plenty of power stock and gets 22.6-20.0 MPG(verified by calculator and connected Insight ProCTS2). I am not sure how much more you would gain from removing, but to me it does not seem like the cost vs gain for a DELETE would be worth it.

 

For me, 22.6 MPG (not towing) is just fine.

 

Slightly off topic, but what lifetime MPG average are you running roughly?



#9 ME3500

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 01:03 PM

About 16.8. The 22-20 is cruising on cruise control @ 70mph. It is pretty consistent. I expected way less considering a Tank of a truck.  I have not tried any of the EDGE economy settings. It has always been set to stock.



#10 GMCNuneZ71

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 12:20 AM

Hey guys so how do you go about the EGR delete without a code? Is it an actual delete or egr block plate or what? I'm really curious.


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#11 Colossus

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 06:58 PM

Not sure.  Might be worth asking over at duramaxfourm.com  tons of people over there have done that mod.  Not many of us (if any) here have. 


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#12 redwngr

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 07:48 PM

I'm not really sure how smart it is to start off a new truck (with a Duramax) by removing the EGR, the DEF system, the cats, and often even the muffler, but I'd like to hear about it. 

 

I presume the warranty we paid a lot of money for would be completely thrown out when we do that, and

 

I'm guessing that our trucks will actually pollute a lot more without those items. Do we really not care about the air we breathe? I know that Los Angeles has MUCH cleaner air than 20 years ago, almost totally due to fewer emissions from motor vehicles. 

 

How do we pass inspection and renew our registration after this surgery?

 

Does the truck show its check engine light forever, or are there tuners, etc, that legitimize the issue?

 

How much better will the LML run, perform, and drink diesel, if at all?

First of all, your LML doesn't have a muffler.

 

Deleting the DEF system and the DPF system will require a tune.  If you tune your LML, you will lose the powertrain warranty (at least for anything expensive).  This has been discussed at length, multiple times on the active Dmax forums.  

 

Inspection and registration concerns will depend on the requirements of you area and how carefully they are checked.

 

Those that are 'deleted' generally rave about it, but that is common for anyone who spends money performance mods.  There are also lots and lots of high-mileage LML's that are completely stock.  

 

Yes, a deleted truck will produce higher emissions.  (some visible as soot, some not visible, like the NOx)


Edited by redwngr, 20 October 2016 - 07:49 PM.


#13 kstruckcountry

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 09:44 AM

Yes, it'll produce a bit higher emissions, but it'll get better fuel economy and won't require refined urea to operate. I'm personally not convinced the system does anything more than offset where the pollution comes from. Less pollution per gallon, but significantly more gallons burned...

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#14 MrNasty

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 10:12 AM

The regen process creates a lot of heat and circulates soot inside your engine. I dont believe the new emissions equipped diesel engines will last any where near as long as the older models did. Cant say for sure because everyone one I get i delete. With a good tune it wont be some big pollution machine. The stupid kids that think its cool and get tunes that blow black smoke on purpose are the reason epa is cracking down harder every year. With a delete you get substantial power and fuel gains. The def fluid will eat a hole through stuff and is not something i want to deal with. If you tow heavy loads you still need a diesel but because of all the emissions that are forced on the auto makers, they wont last as long as they used to. I think that the auto industry was easier to go after and far more pollution comes from other sources that the epa is willing to except lower standards for. Some things that could be used to cut back some pollution from diesel engines are a good thing for sure, but epa takes it a little to far. You will have to forgive me if i sound a little bitter but i have owned diesels for a long time and its epa bs is a sore subject for most owners. Next they will tell me i have to put a dpf on my cows rear end, lol


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Edited by MrNasty, 21 October 2016 - 10:22 AM.

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#15 redwngr

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 03:36 PM

The regen process creates a lot of heat and circulates soot inside your engine. I dont believe the new emissions equipped diesel engines will last any where near as long as the older models did. Cant say for sure because everyone one I get i delete. With a good tune it wont be some big pollution machine. The stupid kids that think its cool and get tunes that blow black smoke on purpose are the reason epa is cracking down harder every year. With a delete you get substantial power and fuel gains. The def fluid will eat a hole through stuff and is not something i want to deal with. If you tow heavy loads you still need a diesel but because of all the emissions that are forced on the auto makers, they wont last as long as they used to. I think that the auto industry was easier to go after and far more pollution comes from other sources that the epa is willing to except lower standards for. Some things that could be used to cut back some pollution from diesel engines are a good thing for sure, but epa takes it a little to far. You will have to forgive me if i sound a little bitter but i have owned diesels for a long time and its epa bs is a sore subject for most owners. Next they will tell me i have to put a dpf on my cows rear end, lol


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The regen process in the 2011 and newer dmax is in the exhaust system, not in the engine. 

 

(which is why there is a 9th injector, in the exhaust)






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