Bypass Oil Filters

[dorkweed]

Anyone running one (Frantz, Motorguard, Amsoil) on these 14+ Silverados/Sierras??

[Black02Silverado]

Not needed, there is no real advantage running one in a gas engine.

 

Now in a diesel it could help, to keep the soot level down, but these newer diesels burn cleaner and it really isn't needed in them either.

 

I have seen some of the older diesels run them and not have to change the oil for up to 80k miles. All they did was change the filters and monitored with UOA's.

[trik396]

I had an amsoil setup, tp filter, and another one which I still have but don't remember the name. I will check. I had them all on my 05 ram Cummins. All worked well. However soot in diesel oil is something like .001 microns and no filter that I'm aware of filters that fine. The one I have is for 1 micron. I believe 10 - 20 microns is where damage occurs and some stock oil filters won't catch everything that small. That's where bypass shines

 

If you want any info on mine it's for sale. Message me

[sdeeter19555]

Amsoil BE filters were the best, then they went with the eabp and it's nothing more than a glorified pleated hydraulic filter. My soot levels jumped drastically changing from a BE to the eabp...I have a couple heads and a couple eabp filters on the shelf, not sure I'll ever use them...maybe on my log splitter hydraulic system.

 

I ran either a Gulf Coast (rolls of paper towels) or a Frantz (rolls of TP)...both of those worked very well and are capable of sub-micron filtration if changed frequently (before they load up). My 04.5 Cummins had that blasted 3rd injection event, fresh oil turned black as soon as you turned the key. A fresh roll of paper towels would actually keep it clear for 5k miles...

 

I have no reason to even consider a bypass filter on this truck...no easy way to install, not really necessary on the engine.

 

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[trik396]

My 05 Cummins was black the second I poured new oil in and check level. No bypass filtration lightened my oil. Nature of the beast. At least mine anyway

 

And I believe I have an oilguard model

[Cowpie]

Almost all diesels, primarily those with EGR, the oil goes black early on. Doesn't mean a thing. Even without bypass filtration, heavy diesel OEM's have oil change intervals of 35,000 to 50,000 miles... and on conventional oil.

 

None of the bypass filters do sub micron. Take your pick.. Amsoil, Gulf Coast, FS, Ecopur, etc. The most efficient ones are in the 1-2 micron range, and even then, 98% filtration level efficiency is actually in the 3-4 micron range. And with that, the best bypass filter does not filter out wear metals that are in soluble form in the motor oil. They are indeed in the sub micron category. Iron, Copper, lead, tin, etc wear metals are not removed. And it is those buildup wear metals that can also cause oil degradation and negative effects on other engine components. That is why even though an oil sample says the oil is still technically good, it may not be beneficial and may actually be causing accelerated wear. That is why commercial users do regular sampling and tracking trend lines and patterns to determine the best oil change interval.

 

trik396, you are pretty close. Most damage from particulates doesn't occur until the >5 micron range. And then, primarily because particulates bond with each other when they approach that size and create larger particulates. That is why bypass filters do their job in the <5 micron range.

[sdeeter19555]

I disagree, there were several Cummins owners that ran oil samples with the Frantz and my Gulf Coast, and we had particle counts done...the results indicated these filters are capable of sub-micron filtration when compared to the spin on filters. These were analyzed by Terry Dyson...that is going back nearly 10 years ago.

 

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[Cowpie]

Ok. I have run dozens upon dozens of oil samples on commercial semi trucks from many labs. The particle count in the sample is NOT particle size, it is the parts per million count. It is the number of particles in a volume of oil. Except for soot, which is shown as a percentage of the oil volume. Oil samples do not show the particulate sizes.

 

Please, find us some information from the bypass filter folks themselves that they filter below 1 micron (sub micron). You can't. And here is the latest sample from my Detroit 12.7L with 638,000 miles on the engine at the time, running a FS2500 bypass. There is nothing that will stop wear metal particulates that are indeed in the sub micron range and there is no mention of size of particulates. Only parts per million and percentages. If a bypass filter could filter to below 1 micron, there would be nothing except oil in the sample. And probably, the beta flow thru the bypass filter would be so slow that it would be ineffective. A bypass filter, the oil flow is extremely slow thru it anyway even at 1-5 microns. That is why only 10% of oil goes thru it in the same time interval that the entire volume of oil in the engine has gone thru the regular filters.

 

 

[sdeeter19555]

And if you have zero PPM of a certain particle size, you have zero particles.

 

At one point the manufacturers did present flitration numbers, and number of passes. It was like the horsepower wars, the better the numbers the more they sold.

 

I'm not going to argue, I've been out of that discussion for over tens years. And we even had Terry Dyson in the conversation on Turbo Diesel Registry.

 

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[Cowpie]

I have no clue who Terry Dyson is. I have been doing oil sample analysis for a few decades now. Actual particulate size has never been a component of a used oil sample test report during that time. That is not saying that someone with a spectrometer was going around on their own and measuring particulate size, but the standard oil sample labs were not and still don't. Of course, it can be done, but at a price point that is not practical except for a specialized application.

 

Did look him up. From a commercial standpoint, there is no way I would pay $79 for a basic oil sample test from his operation. He has some interesting credentials, but I know many who have similar backgrounds. I get used oil samples done for free from my oil supplier. But I have used Polaris, ALS, WearCheck, and some others in the past. My oils supplier provides them free as part of my bulk purchases of oil. They do the sample testing at the oil company headquarters in St. Louis.

 

But back to the main point. There is no bypass filtration that is offered outside of some highly technical specialized applications that filters in the sub micron range. At the very best, 1-2 microns, with the more common being in the 3 micron range. And the ppm in a sample is not measured in particulate size, only particulate count. Those particulate could be sub micron or larger. Of course, if their is zero particulates of any size, there are zero particulates. That really isn't rocket science. Conversely, just one particulate of any size is still a particulate.

[danielLD]

Ok. I have run dozens upon dozens of oil samples on commercial semi trucks from many labs. The particle count in the sample is NOT particle size, it is the parts per million count. It is the number of particles in a volume of oil. Except for soot, which is shown as a percentage of the oil volume. Oil samples do not show the particulate sizes.

 

Please, find us some information from the bypass filter folks themselves that they filter below 1 micron (sub micron). You can't. And here is the latest sample from my Detroit 12.7L with 638,000 miles on the engine at the time, running a FS2500 bypass. There is nothing that will stop wear metal particulates that are indeed in the sub micron range and there is no mention of size of particulates. Only parts per million and percentages. If a bypass filter could filter to below 1 micron, there would be nothing except oil in the sample. And probably, the beta flow thru the bypass filter would be so slow that it would be ineffective. A bypass filter, the oil flow is extremely slow thru it anyway even at 1-5 microns. That is why only 10% of oil goes thru it in the same time interval that the entire volume of oil in the engine has gone thru the regular filters.

 

 

Screenshot 2017-02-12_08-47-57.jpg

 

Are you able to get gas chromatography and the acid number on your next sample?

[gone_fishing]

Ok. I have run dozens upon dozens of oil samples on commercial semi trucks from many labs. The particle count in the sample is NOT particle size, it is the parts per million count. It is the number of particles in a volume of oil. Except for soot, which is shown as a percentage of the oil volume. Oil samples do not show the particulate sizes.

 

Please, find us some information from the bypass filter folks themselves that they filter below 1 micron (sub micron). You can't. And here is the latest sample from my Detroit 12.7L with 638,000 miles on the engine at the time, running a FS2500 bypass. There is nothing that will stop wear metal particulates that are indeed in the sub micron range and there is no mention of size of particulates. Only parts per million and percentages. If a bypass filter could filter to below 1 micron, there would be nothing except oil in the sample. And probably, the beta flow thru the bypass filter would be so slow that it would be ineffective. A bypass filter, the oil flow is extremely slow thru it anyway even at 1-5 microns. That is why only 10% of oil goes thru it in the same time interval that the entire volume of oil in the engine has gone thru the regular filters.

 

 

Screenshot 2017-02-12_08-47-57.jpg

 

Gonna get off topic here a little but I was wondering if you could tell me what oils were ran on this UOA? Looks like 3 different oils. I'm guessing sample 609102 and 622459 were the same oil based on additive package. Sample 672117 and 690212 look different.

 

Thanks

[danielLD]

 

Gonna get off topic here a little but I was wondering if you could tell me what oils were ran on this UOA? Looks like 3 different oils. I'm guessing sample 609102 and 622459 were the same oil based on additive package. Sample 672117 and 690212 look different.

 

Thanks

 

I believe the FTIR results are off on the last two samples.

 

The report I posted is for a truck with a bypass filter. The previous report when compared with this one showed serious improvements in fuel, water and acid values. Soot went down quite a bit as well. I didn't notice a large change in the metals, the engine is fairly new at 25,000~ miles, and looks to be doing very well.

edited oil report for public distribution.pdf

edited oil report for public distribution.pdf

edited oil report for public distribution.pdf

edited oil report for public distribution.pdf