Help!! Metal fell in to the engine!!!

[azure]

At least I think so. We were working on my buddy's 2010 Suburban that had a bunch of codes, including P0011. We were trying to remove the camshaft sensor that is under the water pump on the front of the block. Well, we had a hard time with it and weren't too smart about it (don't ask) and most of the sensor housing ending up cracking off leaving us with nothing to pull it out by, so we did our best to very carefully drill it out/pull out pieces while praying nothing would fall inside the engine! We had screwed a wood screw into the middle of the piece of the sensor that was stuck inside, and were trying to pull on the screw head to get the broken sensor out. It worked pretty well, but when almost all of it was out, the head of the screw broke off inside the rest of the sensor. At this point we just continued to carefully work and pull out what was left and to drill it out. When we were almost done, the last small pieces of plastic fell down inside!! I'm not so worried about the plastic itself because I imagine it could easily shred and disintegrate. But it is pretty likely that there was still a piece of the screw in there, up to possibly an inch long. We did drill some of it out, so who knows maybe most or all of the screw was already drilled out, but I think it's pretty likely that some of it fell in. I'm really nervous about this obviously. We started up the car, wincing and preparing for the worst. At first it seemed to run ok, or at least not any worse than before. The car still has the P0011 code (new sensor didn't fix it), it also has a P0420 for low catalyst efficiency which it had before, and it has P0300 for general misfire, which I'm not sure if it had before. So even before all this drama we know there's an issue from before with the catalytic converter, seemingly, and my buddy has had very difficult acceleration to the point that he had to pull on to the shoulder of the highway because he couldn't drive anymore. So the car was definitely not driving well previously either. But although when we first turned it on after this incident it seemed to still drive "normal" meaning same as before, a few hours later he told me it seems worse, the engine is making noise even when the car is idling, and the acceleration issue is even worse. I'm not sure if he had a misfire code (P0300) or not before all this drama, so I'm wondering if that could be a symptom of something falling into the engine or not? Would that cause a misfire? On the other hand, it seems like it's pretty common to have misfires come along with the P0011 code so it's probably not too crazy to assume he may have had it before also. And the "new symptoms" that are worse may just be the worsening of his existing issues, or it may be from our "accident." Hope some of you guys have some thoughts about this. Obviously if a piece of metal really did "fall in" and is "floating around" in there, his engine is in big trouble. But if it was true, would the engine have "self-destructed" immediately? Is the fact that that didn't happen proof that we're okay in terms of that? It's hard to know if we should move on with repairs to the catalytic s and the cam issues if we're not sure about this new engine disaster. Thanks everyone!!!!

[KARNUT]

Sounds like one of your issues is a clogged cat. Things falling in the engine is never good obviously, but if bits make it's way to the oil pan it's not near as bad as going through the intake. I'd start at the cat and go from there since you've already started and ran the motor.

[azure]

Thanks Stan! Even a positive or encouraging word helps of course. I know a bit about engines, but don't have such a clear internal picture. Are you saying that if it fell into that hole near the camshaft it's more likely to end up falling into the oil pan, as opposed to if it fell into the intake would end up getting stuck in cylinders?

 

 

Also, any thoughts on the cam code and misfire code? My friend literally just paid like 4k to get his engine rebuilt and it came back with like three codes! It's disgraceful that the shop refuses to address it and says it's not their issue!! But having replaced the cam sensor, what would be the likely culprit for these codes?

[KARNUT]

I've had a few issues with clogged cats, they can drive you nuts. My exhaust gut would drill a hole before and after the cat to test it with a gadge. If it was running bad since it was worked on there's lots of things that could be wrong, I would insist on the repair shop to make it right.

[azure]

You're 100% right, but they refuse and my friend isn't the confrontational type of personality. Very sad and pathetic business model. What do you think about the cam thing and misfire?

[KARNUT]

The mis fire, plug wires, plug gaps, timed right. You didn't say if it was rebuilt or exchanged. If it was an exchange, check with the salvage yard see if they can tell you how it ran before it was pulled. If it was rebuilt by the repair shop it could be cam timing etc. I would still start at the cat to see if it's clogged.

[azure]

It was a rebuild. Yes I guess cam timing could be. Who knows. If these guys won't deal with it, I don't know what he should do.

[KARNUT]

Well that's not good, sounds like it was running bad when he picked it up. He should have turned around and took it right back. At the very least not touched it and go to small claims with the invoice unless it said no warranty on the invoice. If that's the case should have never had the work done. If it was running good and it's been awhile there's hope, at least. Good luck.

[muddkatt]

Regarding the "stuff" that fell or possibly fell into the oil pan, change the oil and filter right now. Use a clean pan to do the change and then strain the old oil using a cheese cloth as its poured into another container. See how much, if anything shows up. I would then run the truck for about 10 miles round trip and change the oil and filter again. Use the same strain method and see what else shows up.

[sdeeter19555]

Chances are anything that fell in couldn't make it past the pickup screen. The filter will pick anything else up...and that wouldn't plug the filter.

 

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[muddkatt]

Chances are anything that fell in couldn't make it past the pickup screen. The filter will pick anything else up...and that wouldn't plug the filter.

 

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

My concern is two parts, first being that if metal or plastic gets by the pickup screen it could get past the filter if the built in bypass were to open. Second part is not knowing the quality or condition of the filter currently installed. Junk filter that is not sealed properly could allow the stuff into the oil passages. Filter that has not been changed and has a high restriction will allow the bypass to open and that could introduce the debris to the oil passages.

 

Since the OP stated that he knows "stuff" got into the crankcase, a couple of oil changes is the least he should do to try and correct the issue.

[azure]

Thanks for your help guys!!

[azure]

Anyway, so my friend got the cat replaced, and it drives MUCH better. No misfires either. In case anyones curious whether a bad cat can cause misfires, the answer is yes...hopefully the screw piece will be fine, no issues so far

[KARNUT]

That's what I though, couldn't be 100 per cent.