E-85 Fuel

[flyboyron]

I see that some gas stations sell E85 fuel.

 

My truck as far as I know runs on regular gas.

 

What would happen if I used E85 gas?

[KARNUT]

[quote name="Jsdirt" post="2038462" timestamp="1506302943"Weird I know GM gives you a tune. Even though you can run reg gas they run better on higher grade. When I first joined up in 2014 turners were doing lots of data logging; the results were the 5.3s ran better (less KR ) on 89 and up grade gas and E85.

 

That tells me the 25HP is the result of programming. That just doesn't make any sense. So, what they're doing is robbing you of 25HP if you run gasoline - probably more, since gasoline has quite a bit more BTUs per gallon. Why they can't leave stuff alone ... That way the masses will start telling their friends, "I gained a ton of power on E85!" .. and they will come in droves ...

 

GM must be getting kickbacks from the ethanol industry, like all the democrat politicians in this state are.

[Black02Silverado]

There is a ton of information out there. Google it and read up and make an informed decision.

 

It burns clean, is higher octane and can make a difference in performance on non ethanol vehicles if mixed in a proper ratio.

 

For me I find that if I run 10 gallons of E85 and then fill up with regular my non flex fuel 2002 Silverado 5.3 performs the best. You can't run it straight because it will cause a lean condition at high rpms and that can cause issues. When I did run it straight I got two codes. One for left bank lean and right bank lean. This is because my old set up can't flow the proper amount of ethanol at high rpms so it runs lean.

 

Again read up and educate yourself on flex fuel. There is so much information that is backed up by facts and actual testing that proves it is a very good choice of fuel if used correctly.

 

Not to mention that it keeps your engine clean and you don't have to worry about carbon build up inside the cylinders like we get from burning ethanol free fuel.

 

Terry Dyson of Dyson Analysis is seeing great results in used oil analysis with his customers that run flex fuel in vehicles that are FF compatible.

 

Depending on price point it can be the same cost as running regular fuel. You just have to do the math at the pump and see what MPG you get between it and gasoline. At one point, the cost of E85 here was $1.56 and premium was at $2.46. Running the numbers it was cheaper by a few pennies to run E85. Even though you were filling up more often. Here again, to me the fact that it burns clean, less carbon inside the combustion chamber and is a higher octane is a major benefit.

 

I've been running it in my 2002 Silverado for over two years now with no issues. I would think if there was one it would have shown up by now.

[Jsdirt]

I can only go by what I experience first hand. I gain 3 MPG whenever I get to a state that offers straight gasoline. If my truck runs that bad on E10, there's no reason for me to ever use E85. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

I could spend an entire day listing the problems I fix on people's small engines from the stuff ... and that's just E10!

 

I guess if your newest vehicle was 10 years old, as in my fleet, you'd hate it too. I can't tell you how much money I've spent on fuel hoses & carburetor parts on all my pre-'96 stuff.

 

I don't have extra money for an ethanol tune when my engine in my '07 Silverado can't even make it 100k miles without eating cam bearings and piston rings ...

[Black02Silverado]

I can only go by what I experience first hand. I gain 3 MPG whenever I get to a state that offers straight gasoline. If my truck runs that bad on E10, there's no reason for me to ever use E85. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

I could spend an entire day listing the problems I fix on people's small engines from the stuff ... and that's just E10!

 

I guess if your newest vehicle was 10 years old, as in my fleet, you'd hate it too. I can't tell you how much money I've spent on fuel hoses & carburetor parts on all my pre-'96 stuff.

 

I don't have extra money for an ethanol tune when my engine in my '07 Silverado can't even make it 100k miles without eating cam bearings and piston rings ...

I agree that ethanol fuel should not be used in any small engine application or any vehicle older than 2002. They were not designed for it.

 

I see more and more gas stations now with signs stating that they have ethanol free fuel. At least it gives us a choice as to what fuel we can purchase instead of being forced to use a fuel blended with ethanol. Most of these stations are at the coast or around lakes. I guess for those with boats.

 

I'm sorry that I was not clear on it's use in newer, 2002 and up, vehicles and not to be used in small engines.

[dsr611]

Depends on which engine you have. One thing is for certain though...your mileage will go to crap

Fuel E85 (85% Ethanol)

The 8th digit of the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)

shows the code letter or number that identifies the

vehicle’s engine. The VIN is at the top left of the

instrument panel. See

Vehicle Identification Number

(VIN) on page 5-121

.

If the vehicle has the 5.3L V8 engine (Code 0), the

5.3L V8 engine (Code 3), or the 6.2L V8 engine

(Code 2), you can use either unleaded gasoline or

ethanol fuel containing up to 85% ethanol (E85). See

Fuel on page 5-6

. In all other engines, use only the

unleaded gasoline described under

Gasoline Octane

on page 5-6

.

Only vehicles that have the 5.3L V8 engine (Code 0), the

5.3L V8 engine (Code 3), or the 6.2L V8 engine (Code 2)

can use 85% ethanol fuel (E85). We encourage the use

of E85 in vehicles that are designed to use it. The ethanol

in E85 is a “renewable” fuel, meaning it is made from

renewable sources such as corn and other crops.

Many service stations will not have an 85% ethanol

fuel (E85) pump available. The U.S. Department

of Energy has an alternative fuels website

(www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/infrastructure/locator.html)

that can help you find E85 fuel. Those stations that do

have E85 should have a label indicating ethanol content.

Do not use the fuel if the ethanol content is greater

than 85%

 

At a minimum, E85 should meet ASTM

Specification D 5798. By definition, this means that

fuel labeled E85 will have an ethanol content between

70% and 85%. Filling the fuel tank with fuel mixtures that

do not meet ASTM specifications can affect driveability

and could cause the malfunction indicator lamp to

come on.

To ensure quick starts in the wintertime, the E85 fuel

must be formulated properly for your climate according to

ASTM specification D 5798. If you have trouble starting

on E85, it could be because the E85 fuel is not properly

formulated for your climate. If this happens, switching to

gasoline or adding gasoline to the fuel tank can improve

starting. For good starting and heater efficiency below

32°F (0°C), the fuel mix in the fuel tank should contain

no more than 70% ethanol. It is best not to alternate

repeatedly between gasoline and E85. If you do switch

fuels, it is recommended that you add as much fuel as

possible — do not add less than three gallons (11 L)

when refueling. You should drive the vehicle immediately

after refueling for at least seven miles (11 km) to allow the

vehicle to adapt to the change in ethanol concentration.

E85 has less energy per gallon than gasoline, so you will

need to refill the fuel tank more often when using E85

than when you are using gasoline. See

Filling the

Tank on page 5-10

[Jsdirt]

Wish they'd give us a choice here in MA. We've been fighting for it for years, but politicians here think THEY know best, and just do whatever THEY feel is "right". They've forgotten they work for us ... but I digress ....

 

If you go on pure-gas.org, it shows MA as having ethanol free gas ... but, none of the stations listed have it at the pump. In fact, most of them are OPE dealers, or motorcycle shops, and are only on there because they sell ethanol-free VP race fuel by the quart, or gallon.

[Nick The Great]

That tells me the 25HP is the result of programming. That just doesn't make any sense. So, what they're doing is robbing you of 25HP if you run gasoline - probably more, since gasoline has quite a bit more BTUs per gallon. Why they can't leave stuff alone ... That way the masses will start telling their friends, "I gained a ton of power on E85!" .. and they will come in droves ...

 

GM must be getting kickbacks from the ethanol industry, like all the democrat politicians in this state are.

 

The simple fact is that Ethanol has less BTU of energy per unit. That doesn't make it a bad fuel. It means that you will have to fill up more often, and you need to run the numbers based on your MPG and pricing.

 

E85 is a terrible idea if it is the same $/gal. But it's a fantastic idea if it is half the $/gal of gasoline.

 

Here's a fun chart (on Wikipedia, so . . . ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

But it shows the equivalent gallons of "gasoline" for other fuels.

 

Ethanol is worse. Methanol is WORSE worse. Diesel is a fair bit better.

 

Now if you have political/ethical concerns, that's a whole 'nother thread. I'll take "Big Corn" over "Big Oil." We all have our own preferences for our overlords.

[Jsdirt]

I probably wouldn't mind it so much if they just gave us one, or the other, and didn't dilute both! That way I could set up my old stuff to run on it permanently.

[KARNUT]

Older vehicles are easier to work on but most people don't. It's a lot easier for people to buy cheap commuter car with warranty than to pay someone to work on an old car. I've have an old truck I work on but drive it no farther than 500 miles a year. My daily cost me 17K. If I drove my old truck the 20,000 miles a year I drive it would cost me more money. You can buy a new car for under 15K doesn't make sense to daily drive old cars anymore . The gas blend works for the masses. As far as my chainsaws and lawnmower I get 10 years out of them never a problem with fuel I put premium gas in those.

 

 

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[Jsdirt]

I work on everything I own. WAY cheaper to run my '93 Volvo 20k a year than my Silverado - just the fuel savings alone is huge, but the Silverado seems to break more than my old stuff. Way cheaper owning our Marquis too. Thing owes me nothing.

 

My wife has been commuting just under 70 miles a day in our '86 Grand Marquis for 14 years. I keep manilla folders full of repair receipts for every one of my vehicles. The Silverado folder is thicker than the Marquis one by quite a bit. That car just doesn't break very often. Never left her stranded EVER. I paid $2,200 in 2003 for it. Maybe put $4k in repairs into her over the past 14 years. My insurance is next to nothing, excise tax is $7.50 per year, & the car gets 20 MPG average & can tow 3k lbs..

 

I've never paid 5 figures for any car I've ever owned except for the Silverado. With the money I wasted on that thing, I could've fully restored my '72 El Camino (instead of selling it like a dummy), AND bought an early Cummins to tow with ... and probably had $10k extra to play with afterwards!

 

I rarely have ethanol related issues with my own stuff, but I make a living fixing OPE for others. The amount of money it costs them is astounding. Alot of people just need to seal up their fuel cans, and/or bring them indoors and they'd never have an issue. I keep a 55 gallon drum full of 87 octane fuel here - I just installed a water separator on the Fill-Rite pump, and that takes care of any water that might settle out. Sometimes that barrel takes me a year to empty too. As long as it's air tight, it's fine. I don't use any fuel stabilizers either. If people understood how ethanol loves water, they wouldn't have the problems they have either.

 

I have had some motorcycles and OPE here that will not start after only a week of sitting idle with the petcock open. It's hit or miss - guess it depends on how open to the air the float bowl is.

[Jsdirt]

Don't put that garbage in your truck. Less power, less mileage.

 

But, everyone gets sucked in because it's cheaper per gallon. Since you'll be stopping at the station more frequently, it really isn't cheaper per gallon when you do the math.

 

No benefits whatsoever to running E85, IMO. At least not in our trucks (unless your a treehugger, and emissions are a high priority for you).

 

An engine needs to be built for either ethanol or gasoline - flex-fuel is a compromise of both. You can run more timing with ethanol since it has a high octane level - not much use on a computer-controlled vehicle, unless you carry a laptop & $1,000 worth of software wherever you go. To take full advantage of E85 (or higher), you need a high compression engine with timing advanced far beyond what you could with a gas engine - then you'd make some power & still get decent mileage. Not going to see those results with a Flex vehicle. Just on E10 alone I lose 2-3 MPG over ethanol-free fuel ... that I can only buy by the drum, or in NY state in their premium. No fuel sold in MA at the pump without some ethanol content, unfortunately.

[KARNUT]

Don't tell anyone I said this but the LTD- marquis was probably the best American made car ever and not made anymore. Probably been replaced by the Camry. I'm fortunate to know a guy like you 2 miles from me who loves to work on cars. Working on your own car is just too complicated today for most people.

 

 

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[Jsdirt]

I agree - the one we have now is our second one. My first one I drove all the way to Phoenix, AZ pulling an enclosed U-Haul trailer ... one week after I overheated it so bad it turned the oil to milk! I failed to purge an air pocket out of the cooling system - was still learning then, lol. Only problem I had on the trip was a blown heater hose in the mountains of Flagstaff. I grabbed a 7/16" deep socket and stuffed it into the hose after cutting it in half at the leak. Ran that socket like that for 3 weeks in the Phoenix heat afterward, before I had a chance to fix it.

 

Then, it got stolen. The car was gone for a year before police found it in Bell, CA. I had been living in Livermore at the time, so was just a 5 hour bus ride south to retrieve it from the impound yard. What an adventure that was. Was like a 3rd world country. After paying the $500 impound fees, I had to slide in under the guy that drove it out to keep my foot on the gas - the battery was totally smoked. Would stall and not restart if left to idle. Luckily I found the expressway pretty quick, and made my way to I-5. At least I got out of LA before the thing stalled as I coasted down an offramp. Had to walk 2 miles there and back for a battery, got it home, spent the next day cleaning it up and changing the oil, and sold it in the local want-ad for $1,500 - paid for my trip back to MA in the El Camino. Car had 256k miles on it when it sold.

 

Yeah, I have friends that used to all work on their own stuff when we were younger, but I was the only one who kept at it. They don't have the patience to deal with modern engineering now - easier to just pay me, or someone else to do it for them. I can't say I blame them ...

[KARNUT]

If you have an 14 up 5.3 with a yellow cap E-85 gives you 25 HP. It's not crap and you have to decide if the minor loss of mileage is worth it. In my case my truck was a different animal on and I used it most of the time. In my case it was cheaper but I would have paid more for the way my truck drove on it. Some people paid up to 15K more to get the 6.2, E85 gets you within 40HP of the 6.2. You have options on different gas with the 5.3 only 91 on up grade gas with the 6.2.

 

 

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[Jsdirt]

That tells me the 25HP is the result of programming. That just doesn't make any sense. So, what they're doing is robbing you of 25HP if you run gasoline - probably more, since gasoline has quite a bit more BTUs per gallon. Why they can't leave stuff alone ... That way the masses will start telling their friends, "I gained a ton of power on E85!" .. and they will come in droves ...

 

GM must be getting kickbacks from the ethanol industry, like all the democrat politicians in this state are.