Will GM expand its manuals?

Logan Lanfear · December 7, 2017

The short answer is, no.

GM currently offers a manual transmission in its Canyon, with a catch. You have to opt for a 4 cylinder and 2WD. Now sure, that's all fine and dandy for some but, not everyone. Some out there are sticking with their older, full size trucks, because they happen to have a manual. Some say GM is losing out on sales. Others know it wouldn't be worth the added cost of production.

From a consumer's point of view, if GM were to produce a full size truck (Silverado or Sierra) with a manual, we would benefit slightly. Likely, a manual would be an option added at a greater cost. But, it would give us a wider range of selection when it comes to building our trucks. Those who enjoy the added driving control and immersion might find themselves in a new truck with 3 pedals.

GM hasn't produced a full size pickup with a manual since 2006/7. No GMT900 truck received 3 pedals and a gear stick from the factory. Ford continued until 2010, while Dodge is still producing a 6 speed truck. For GM to produce another transmission option, it would likely need to make changes on its assembly line. New procedures and equipment would be required to create manual trucks, all coming at a cost to GM. I am sure that market analysis crews at GM advise them against it. There wouldn't be enough money to make to bring back the option. Let me know what you think!

Grumpy Bear · December 7, 2017

But I can get one if I live in Mexico.

newdude · December 7, 2017

No expansion. Sooner or later manuals will be relegated to super bare subcompacts and some sports cars (pretty much there honestly). Otherwise, a thinning herd.

Edited December 7, 2017 by newdude

MikeNH · December 7, 2017

Not happening. They're less fuel efficient (at least in testing) than modern autos so it will drive down CAFE numbers, it will have an extremely low take rate so the cost to certify the powertrain will not be recovered. Never got the appeal in a truck for a manual, they're not good transmissions like some sports car.

sdeeter19555 · December 8, 2017

The short answer is, no.

GM currently offers a manual transmission in its Canyon, with a catch. You have to opt for a 4 cylinder and 2WD. Now sure, that's all fine and dandy for some but, not everyone. Some out there are sticking with their older, full size trucks, because they happen to have a manual. Some say GM is losing out on sales. Others know it wouldn't be worth the added cost of production.

From a consumer's point of view, if GM were to produce a full size truck (Silverado or Sierra) with a manual, we would benefit slightly. Likely, a manual would be an option added at a greater cost. But, it would give us a wider range of selection when it comes to building our trucks. Those who enjoy the added driving control and immersion might find themselves in a new truck with 3 pedals.

GM hasn't produced a full size pickup with a manual since 2006/7. No GMT900 truck received 3 pedals and a gear stick from the factory. Ford continued until 2010, while Dodge is still producing a 6 speed truck. For GM to produce another transmission option, it would likely need to make changes on its assembly line. New procedures and equipment would be required to create manual trucks, all coming at a cost to GM. I am sure that market analysis crews at GM advise them against it. There wouldn't be enough money to make to bring back the option. Let me know what you think!

The last good Dodge manuals were the NV5600 and NV4500, once they changed to the Getrag and multiple-piece clutch in 2005, they were back to the premature failures they had with Getrag in the 80s/early 90s.

Manufacturers are steering away from manuals because most people want autos and the manufacturers can control how much abuse a driver can inflict on an auto via programming which keeps the warranty work to a minimum.

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sdeeter19555 · December 8, 2017

Not happening. They're less fuel efficient (at least in testing) than modern autos so it will drive down CAFE numbers, it will have an extremely low take rate so the cost to certify the powertrain will not be recovered. Never got the appeal in a truck for a manual, they're not good transmissions like some sports car.

I liked my nv5600 in my Cummins, nothing like rowing through six gears to get to 65mph!

Remember when GM had the shift light in the S10 and 1500 to help drivers be consistent with fuel mileage?

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barry G · December 8, 2017

3 hours ago, MikeNH said:

Not happening. They're less fuel efficient (at least in testing) than modern autos so it will drive down CAFE numbers, it will have an extremely low take rate so the cost to certify the powertrain will not be recovered. Never got the appeal in a truck for a manual, they're not good transmissions like some sports car.

my 1996 is at 366k miles.

16.4 mpg

my dads 2016 is at 5k miles, narrows down to 15.8

My 96 skips past all models of the gmt800.. in fact just happened today. the only annoyance with the old manual is getting challenged by a negative 100hp sucking automatic drivers.

I just got my 105 mph speed limiter back.

I am glad it is there.

don't even bother bullshitting 30 years of a trucking family..

the manual is the winner.

it might need man sized hands. the only prerequisite.

sdeeter19555 · December 8, 2017

I'd prefer one myself...

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Grumpy Bear · December 8, 2017

Add four doors. Give it a five foot bed. Take away the manual transmission. Pretty soon you have a school buss with an open trunk for soccer moms schlepping muddy field gear. It's right up there with lane departure and forward crash avoidance for off road 4X4's, trophy trucks and prerunners. Another brilliant idea. Hey why not. GM knows what it's doing. They've managed to kill off Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Caddy is going down for the third time. Chevy cars are a whole lot of me too and CPO projects few can afford. Give them a few more bright ideas and we will all be driving Dodges and French built clones with GM badges. Who's driving this buss anyway?

newdude · December 8, 2017

18 hours ago, MikeNH said:

Not happening. They're less fuel efficient (at least in testing) than modern autos so it will drive down CAFE numbers, it will have an extremely low take rate so the cost to certify the powertrain will not be recovered. Never got the appeal in a truck for a manual, they're not good transmissions like some sports car.

An interesting argument to that part is the Cruze Diesel. Highway MPG is 47 with the 9 speed auto, but 52 with the 6 speed manual. I know its only 4mpg, but there is a difference none the less.

sdeeter19555 · December 8, 2017

An interesting argument to that part is the Cruze Diesel. Highway MPG is 47 with the 9 speed auto, but 52 with the 6 speed manual. I know its only 4mpg, but there is a difference none the less.

They can get better mileage out of a manual if the driver knows how to do it...the trans is lighter in most cases, it has less rotating mass. Even though my NV5600 was about 200 pounds heavier than the auto, I got better mileage than most comparable automatic-equipped trucks of the same vintage, even one with 3.73s as compared to my 4.10s.

The auto will get better mileage overall (think fleet) because the programming can be made for fuel efficiency to account for the driver that launches at every redlight or lugs every gear, or even hangs onto every gear for that "extra cool" effect...

Those manuals were far more durable than the automatic transmission during that period...I want to remember the NV5600 was even rated for more input torque than the Allison at that time. Stupid people (myself included) who added programmers were the weak link...had 200k on the OE clutch, added a programmer and the clutch couldn't hold 6th any longer.

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MikeNH · December 9, 2017

On 12/7/2017 at 10:00 PM, barry G said:

my 1996 is at 366k miles.

16.4 mpg

my dads 2016 is at 5k miles, narrows down to 15.8

My 96 skips past all models of the gmt800.. in fact just happened today. the only annoyance with the old manual is getting challenged by a negative 100hp sucking automatic drivers.

I just got my 105 mph speed limiter back.

I am glad it is there.

don't even bother bullshitting 30 years of a trucking family..

the manual is the winner.

it might need man sized hands. the only prerequisite.

You compare trucks 20 years apart? Put both on a scale. You're just as clueless as the people who whine about the subcompacts in the 80s getting crazy mileage without realizing they're comparing a tin can on wheels to something with a few decades worth of improvement in crashworthiness, comfort and emissions improvements. That adds weight. Put that 1996 next to the 2016- the 2016 is a giant. Your 1996 is probably closer in size to a Colorado today.

But whatever, you obviously love manuals and can't bother to actually read what I wrote. I said the auto (generally) does better in testing for fuel economy and emissions. This isn't the real world but this is what the automakers care about since not hitting targets costs them money. Either way, manuals in trucks are dead so hold on to that 96 if that is important to you.

Grumpy Bear · December 9, 2017

45 minutes ago, MikeNH said:

You compare trucks 20 years apart? Put both on a scale. You're just as clueless as the people who whine about the subcompacts in the 80s getting crazy mileage without realizing they're comparing a tin can on wheels to something with a few decades worth of improvement in crashworthiness, comfort and emissions improvements. That adds weight. Put that 1996 next to the 2016- the 2016 is a giant. Your 1996 is probably closer in size to a Colorado today.

But whatever, you obviously love manuals and can't bother to actually read what I wrote. I said the auto (generally) does better in testing for fuel economy and emissions. This isn't the real world but this is what the automakers care about since not hitting targets costs them money. Either way, manuals in trucks are dead so hold on to that 96 if that is important to you.

I'd trade my 2015 Silverado for dads 49 flathead half ton three speed right now. It's actually a half ton, not a one ton dressed as a half. I loved driving it when I got the chance. Drives like a car and hauls it's nameplate. I'm not sure there is anything made today that is truly a half ton. Anyone that thinks a truck rides like it does because its a truck hasn't lived long enough to know the difference. If I want a three quarter or a one ton I'd buy one.

My 15 has 700# coils up front in a RCSB six banger. Same spring that is in the crew cab standard bed 6.2 top O' the line. Tell me about modern refinements again. I'm listening.

Logan Lanfear · December 10, 2017

4 hours ago, MikeNH said:

You compare trucks 20 years apart? Put both on a scale. You're just as clueless as the people who whine about the subcompacts in the 80s getting crazy mileage without realizing they're comparing a tin can on wheels to something with a few decades worth of improvement in crashworthiness, comfort and emissions improvements. That adds weight. Put that 1996 next to the 2016- the 2016 is a giant. Your 1996 is probably closer in size to a Colorado today.

But whatever, you obviously love manuals and can't bother to actually read what I wrote. I said the auto (generally) does better in testing for fuel economy and emissions. This isn't the real world but this is what the automakers care about since not hitting targets costs them money. Either way, manuals in trucks are dead so hold on to that 96 if that is important to you.

I started this to compare what GM did with manuals to see how they would continue it. Obviously trucks have come a long way. My 1998 is very "advanced" with just as many options as my 2008 had. Gets the same mileage. The 2008 just has higher capacities. The advancement comes through technology that allows us to do more with the same amount of fuel. You say that manuals are dead however they're still produced? Obviously GM has given up on full size truck manuals but they have truck options and vehicle options with a manual. Just because someone tends to enjoy shifting while they drive doesn't mean they cant understand that autos have came a long way.

KARNUT · December 10, 2017

Of all the trucks I can remember being in my family, I take my dads 70 cst. 400 engine 3 on the tree, factory tack dash, that was sweet.

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