Difference between 2500HD and 2500HD Classic

REDGAR · March 3, 2007

Called a dealer looking for 2500HD diesel/alison and was told they are not making them yet but I can get a 2500HD Classic. He said they are basically the same but the classic has different body panels.

Is that entirely true?

Are there other differences like frame or strength?

Is there there some review that already highlights this and I missed it?

mschuyler · March 3, 2007

Called a dealer looking for 2500HD diesel/alison and was told they are not making them yet but I can get a 2500HD Classic. He said they are basically the same but the classic has different body panels.

Is that entirely true?

Are there other differences like frame or strength?

Is there there some review that already highlights this and I missed it?

Not entirely true, no. I just got a duramax classic. My guess is that there are quite a few internal changes, but the really big one the dealer missed is the LMM engine. This has a bunch of pollution control stuff on it to comply with the new regulations on sulfur and emissions. For example, on the new exhaust system there is a 'particulate trap' (probably the wrong word) that grabs ash and stuff coming out of the exhaust and must be emptied once in awhile. The engine itself is 365 instead of 360 HP, a minor issue, I would think. Torque is the same at 650. The interior of the high end is also completely different. They renamed the LT3 to LTZ which has a redesigned dash that is the same as the Avalanche/Suburban. Also, navigation is now an option (+$2200). Towing: With a duramax it's up to 13,000 pounds on a weight distributing hitch. The classic can do 12,000, but as equipped with the hitch, it does 7500. I believe (but am not certain) that the new ones have the weight distribution hitch already on them. Rear doors on an extended cab swing completly open 270 degrees. That's nice. Oh, and the new ones are about plus $3K NOT INCLUDING the increase for the diesel, which itself is under $1000 more. New ones don't have the $1250 rebate either. So they increased the base price, too. This is just the stuff off top of my head that I can remember. Bottom line is that a fully loaded new 07 is pushing $50K. You can get a fully loaded classic for $39K.

The question is, are these changes for the better? Most of them seem like incremental improvements to me, not that they aren't valuable, but you're going to pay for the increases. Now, the one issue I think MAY be important is the LMM vs. the LTZ. The LTZ engine is about the third generation, I think, which has taken care of some issues, such as cooling, that affected the earlier models. In other words, the LTZ has the benefit of experience with the earlier models and is the most refined of them all. It's a proven issue. Is the LMM? Well, we don't know yet. It might be yet another step in the evolution of the series, but the improvements were largely forced by the new emission rules rather than a tweak of a weak spot in earlier models (Okay, I know emissions can be considered a 'weak spot,' but I was thinking mechanical and performace wise.) Opinion varies, but lots of guys will tell you to stick with the LBZ if you can for just this reason.

I decided on a Classic because I was already pushing it in terms of affordability. I think some of the new changes are nice, but I can live without navigation, if I have to, I guess. I still get the 5/100,000 warranty, and I still have a brand new truck for a lot less money.

mini1 · March 4, 2007

Basically one truck is based on a 7+ year old design. It has a very ugly dashboard and interior, and the other is brand new. Both are good trucks, it just makes more sense to me to buy a new truck that is in fact new. I would wait for the new duramax.

superbee · March 4, 2007

If performance mods are important to you, there are TONS for the LBZ engine, and none yet for the LMM. I went for the LBZ for this reason alone with a leftover 06 in December. The ex cab doors would be nice but, cashwise I agree these changes don't warrent the cash outlay.

mschuyler · March 4, 2007

Basically one truck is based on a 7+ year old design. It has a very ugly dashboard and interior, and the other is brand new. Both are good trucks, it just makes more sense to me to buy a new truck that is in fact new. I would wait for the new duramax.

Regarding the dashboard, unless you go with the LTZ top of the line, it's the same dashboard. It's not different enough to notice. The LTZ, as I stated, is like the Avalanche/Suburban. I've seen two now, one on an avalanche and one on a 2007 1500 900 series. There's fake wood grain all over and the corners are smoother. Unlike the older dash, there is no place you could stick a radio, for example. (I'm a HAM and there's a nice little compartment for a radio just below the dash.) It's supposed to convey more elegance, I suppose, but it's still fake. Some would consider this new dash pretty ugly as well. I didn't see any other interior differences. (Both I saw were leather as well.)

For resale the 900 series will be worth more. The 2007 Classic is really a 2006 with a better warranty. That will show up in resale. So if that's important to you, so be it. It probably depends on how long you plan to keep the truck. If a long time, that shouldn't matter. Both trucks have zero miles on them, and one is about ten grand cheaper.

But the original issue was not 'What should I buy?' It was "What are the real differences?'

REDGAR · March 4, 2007

I thank you all for the input. Yes that is exactly what I asked for and it does lead to the the next question of what I should buy. I tow a race car now with an 03 Avalanche 1500 whose trans went at 92,000 miles and again at again at 100k so I am a little nervous. This is with an open trailer. A box trailer is in my future so that is why I am looking diesel now.

So I guess the integrated brake controller is not available in the Classic either.

Very few diesels availale in the area.

Can anyone tell me if there is a way I can search dealer inventory for only diesel equipped models?

mschuyler · March 4, 2007

Can anyone tell me if there is a way I can search dealer inventory for only diesel equipped models?

Having spent the last two months doing this....even if you specify a diesel the gmc.com system will spit back whatever is close, the majority of which is non-diesel. What I wanted was an LT3 Extended cab diesel. Most all of them come with Onstar as an option as well as "heavy duty towing" (which isn't, but that's another issue). Most all of the diesels equipped like this came in at $44K list, so I went through the listings and pulled up ONLY those that were $43K or more. That worked pretty well. So build a truck on chevrolet.com and note the msrp. Anything that comes in $8 grand or less than that can't possibly be a diesel. Anything more than that probably is. Now, it was easy for me because I wanted LT3. If you want work truck then that will be a little more difficult to pin down because the higher trim levels will throw you off. But anyway, that's the method I used.

Also, gotta tell ya--the online inventory does not always reflect reality. If you find a dealer you can live with, be sure to check their lot inventory as well and not rely on chevrolet.com inventory. Many of them have online access of their own. For me, I went in with the attitude that I wanted at least invoice minus rebates. They've got a 3% holdback plus whatever else is tossed their way, so they can live on that. With these new trucks that might be more difficult, and there won't be rebates for awhile.

I got mine at Bret Chevrolet in Kent, WA for the price I wanted. I actually found one a couple hundred cheaper, but it was also a couple hundred miles away in Portland, which meant a train ride, long drive back, time, etc. Besides, my salesman worked his a** off trying to find the exact truck I wanted (auto folding mirrors are rare), but he did it, and I figure he deserved the sale based on what he went through. he was a straight shooter--you know how it is sometimes. I went through carsdirect.com who referred me to this dealer. I probably never would have found them if I hadn't done that. There are dozens of chevy/gmc dealers within 50 miles of me and there was nothing that stood them out.

mini1 · March 5, 2007

Basically one truck is based on a 7+ year old design. It has a very ugly dashboard and interior, and the other is brand new. Both are good trucks, it just makes more sense to me to buy a new truck that is in fact new. I would wait for the new duramax.

Regarding the dashboard, unless you go with the LTZ top of the line, it's the same dashboard. It's not different enough to notice. The LTZ, as I stated, is like the Avalanche/Suburban. I've seen two now, one on an avalanche and one on a 2007 1500 900 series. There's fake wood grain all over and the corners are smoother. Unlike the older dash, there is no place you could stick a radio, for example. (I'm a HAM and there's a nice little compartment for a radio just below the dash.) It's supposed to convey more elegance, I suppose, but it's still fake. Some would consider this new dash pretty ugly as well. I didn't see any other interior differences. (Both I saw were leather as well.)

For resale the 900 series will be worth more. The 2007 Classic is really a 2006 with a better warranty. That will show up in resale. So if that's important to you, so be it. It probably depends on how long you plan to keep the truck. If a long time, that shouldn't matter. Both trucks have zero miles on them, and one is about ten grand cheaper.

But the original issue was not 'What should I buy?' It was "What are the real differences?'

I don't think you have studied the 07 Classic vs 07 interior very well. There is a world of design difference. The 07 Classic is so 90's! The basic layout is from the 95-99 classics. That is too old. The new interior is just so much better to look at and use. The trucks have actually entered 2007.

mschuyler · March 5, 2007

I don't think you have studied the 07 Classic vs 07 interior very well. There is a world of design difference. The 07 Classic is so 90's! The basic layout is from the 95-99 classics. That is too old. The new interior is just so much better to look at and use. The trucks have actually entered 2007.

Oh, you don't, huh, mini? I've been in them and that's my opinion. The LTZ is a big difference; the others are just 'truck' looking. But that's just my opinion. But you know there, mini, everywhere I go on these forums you seem to be there casting aspersions and being negative, no matter what the subject. So bye bye! I won't be seeing you again.

GeoHawk · March 5, 2007

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I actually prefer the Classic dash over the WT/LT dash on the new trucks. It seems harder to read the gauges on the new dash vs. the one in my '03. Then again, maybe my eyesight is heading south. I do like the LTZ dash better than the LT dash, if only it came without the cheesey wood trim.

cerbomark · March 5, 2007

there is no comparision between the older interior and the 07 interior. Even the new interior without the wood (which is what I got) is much nicer looking and user friendly. This is my third Silverado and I think my 1995 had the same interior as my 2004. Long time coming.

mini1 · March 5, 2007

there is no comparision between the older interior and the 07 interior. Even the new interior without the wood (which is what I got) is much nicer looking and user friendly. This is my third Silverado and I think my 1995 had the same interior as my 2004. Long time coming.

EXACTLY what I trying to say! Thank you! The 99-07 classic dashboards and steering wheels were VERY dated, ugly and quite obsolete. Both Ford and Dodge had much better looking interiors, especially near the end of the cycle. The steering wheel has always looked out of place since 99. It is way too small and just plain ugly. The new steering wheel is big, really nice to look at, and user friendly. The new design fits with the new exterior 100%. The GMT-800's did not, especially after the refresh in 2003. I think GM has came back to the nearly "timeless" design of the 95-99 Classic run. It is so much better!

gwrace · March 6, 2007

I would agree. I spend weeks doing research before buying any vehicle. There are quite a few improvements in the new design for 07. Take a look at all the info that GM has released and then sit in and drive both style trucks. Many, Many improvements that will help keep resale value high. Much nicer body panels and interior quality. I just wish they would jump into the 21st century with their engine and drive trains. The 6 speed tranny is a step in the right direction but they are following instead of innovating and leading. They are letting the competition walk all over them, Toyota is already working on an 8 speed tranny due out next year in the Lexus.

mschuyler · March 6, 2007

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I actually prefer the Classic dash over the WT/LT dash on the new trucks. It seems harder to read the gauges on the new dash vs. the one in my '03. Then again, maybe my eyesight is heading south. I do like the LTZ dash better than the LT dash, if only it came without the cheesey wood trim.

No kidding! I know what you mean about the gauges. I wear bi-focals and the gauges are between the two lenses. It's a bitch to read them especially when they're unfamiliar. I took another look at the dashes on the 900's and I still don't see a significant difference. The gauge assembly looks the same. The middle column looks a little different with the radio and hvac, but eh!? Not enough to waste ink over. The fake wood trim, however, is truly cheesy. In fact, it looks somewhat like the Tundra dash. I hope GM didn't stoop so low as to emulate Toyota's idea of bling, but I admit it's a possibility. Give me wood or give me plastic, but please don't give me plastic wood.