Anyone Having Startup Issues?

[ZR Rider]

Here is a link to the tech area where I posted awhile ago. http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=73222

 

This truck is going to drive me crazy! Between the new steering shaft, now the clunking rear end/slip yoke, no starts every morning. Plus endless rattles... never had these issues with my old truck!

 

Anyone else having a no start issue?

Turn the key to on, all the lights come on, no fuel pump noise, try to start it, nothing and all the dash lights go off. Then try it 5 or 6 times till I hear the fuel pump start, try to start it and it fires right up!!

Yesterday the dealer put a new starter on it... worked great till this morning. No start again!

 

Any ideas??

[Draenor]

Has the ignition switched been replaced?

[cmoore74]

No start issues here, but if when you turn the key the first few times and you don't here the fuel pump then it doesn't seem like an issue with the starter to me.

 

You will probably have to bring it back in (I hope you're still under warranty).

[ZR Rider]

Yah, still under warranty, I'm lean towards the key switch.

No clue why they put a new starter on it... whatever. I just want it to start.

[ZR Rider]

Has the ignition switched been replaced?

Is there a bulletin for the key switch???

 

Love how GM does there problem bulletins, it's not a recall... but if you are having any issue, we already know about it! LOL

[pm26]

Yah, still under warranty, I'm lean towards the key switch.

No clue why they put a new starter on it... whatever. I just want it to start.

 

Why did they put a new starter on? Because they are clueless and they had to do something to make it look like they fixed it. Happens all the time with all brands and models. Suggest you try a different dealership.

[Lincoln30]

Next time it won't start the first time try one of the other keys. This sounds Passlock problem to me (GMs name for the coded key system).

[ZR Rider]

Does it with both sets of keys. Tried that too.

[BowTieDude]

Maybe it's the fuel pump or pump relay?

 

 

EDIT: Never mind, I didn't realize it wasn't cranking over either. My bad.

[jrrod2004]

Maybe it's the fuel pump or pump relay?

 

 

The TSBs are primarly for the D-Max equipped trucks, here is something that may prove useful to help with the diagnosis:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Document ID# 1469102

2006 Chevrolet Chevy C Silverado - 2WD

Ignition Relay Diagnosis

Circuit Description

The ignition relay is a normally open relay. The relay armature is held in the open position by spring tension. When the ignition switch is turned to the run or start position, current will flow through the relay coil. A wire connected to the other end of the relay coil completes the path to ground. The electomagnetic field created by the relay coil, overcomes the spring tension and moves the armature allowing the relay contacts to close. The closed relay contacts allow current to flow from the battery to the following fuses:

 

 

• The PCM 1 fuse

 

 

• The ETC/ECM fuse

 

 

• The INJ 1 fuse

 

 

• The INJ 2 fuse

 

 

• The SBA fuse, if equipped.

 

When the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position, the electromagnetic field collapses. This action allows the spring tension to move the armature away from the relay contacts, which interrupts current flow to the fuses.

 

If the ignition relay fails to close, the engine will crank, but will not run. The class 2 communications will be available with the use of a scan tool.

 

The ignition relay table assumes that the vehicle battery is fully charged. Refer to Battery Inspection/Test in Engine Electrical.

 

Step

 

Action

 

Yes

 

No

 

Schematic Reference: Power Distribution Schematics and Ground Distribution Schematics in Wiring Systems and Engine Controls Schematics

 

Connector End View Reference: Engine Controls Connector End Views or Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Connector End Views

 

1

 

Did you perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle?

 

Go to Step 2

 

Go to Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle in Vehicle DTC Information

 

2

 

 

1. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.

    

2. Remove the underhood junction block cover.

    

3. Probe the following fuses with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground:

   - PCM 1

    

    

   - ETC/ECM

    

    

   - INJ 1

    

    

   - INJ 2

    

    

   - SBA, if equipped. Refer to

   Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

    

    

Does the test lamp illuminate on at least one test point of each fuse?

 

Go to Step 3

 

Go to Step 10

 

3

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Probe both test points of the PCM 1 fuse with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

Does the test lamp illuminate on either test point of the fuse?

 

Go to Step 4

 

Go to Step 30

 

4

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Remove the ignition relay from the underhood junction block with the J 43244 Relay Puller Pliers. Refer to Relay Replacement in Wiring Systems.Notice: Refer to Test Probe Notice in Cautions and Notices.

    

    

3. Probe the ignition 1 voltage circuit of the ignition relay at the underhood junction block with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

Does the test lamp illuminate?

 

Go to Step 7

 

Go to Step 5

 

5

 

Test the relay load bus bar of the underhood junction block between the ignition relay and the fuses to the circuit components for a short to battery positive voltage. Refer to Circuit Testing in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you find a condition?

 

Go to Step 29

 

Go to Step 6

 

6

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Remove the following fuses from the underhood junction block:

   - PCM 1

    

    

   - ETC/ECM

    

    

   - INJ 1

    

    

   - INJ 2

    

    

   - SBA, if equipped.

    

    

    

3. Probe the above fuse terminals in the underhood junction block with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

Does the test lamp illuminate at any of the fuse terminals?

 

Go to Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle in Vehicle DTC Information

 

Go to Step 27

 

7

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Disconnect the negative battery cable at the battery. Refer to Battery Negative Cable Disconnect/Connect Procedure in Engine Electrical.

    

3. Disconnect the underhood junction block electrical connector that contains the ignition 1 voltage circuit for the ignition relay.

    

4. Disconnect the ignition switch electrical connector that contains the ignition 1 voltage circuit for the ignition relay.

    

5. Connect the negative battery cable to the battery.

    

6. Test the ignition 1 voltage circuit for a short to battery positive voltage. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

    

Did you find and correct the condition?

 

Go to Step 30

 

Go to Step 8

 

8

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Probe the ignition 1 voltage terminal on the ignition switch side of the ignition switch electrical connector with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

Does the test lamp illuminate?

 

Go to Step 28

 

Go to Step 9

 

9

 

Test the ignition 1 voltage bus bar circuit in the underhood junction block for a short to battery positive voltage. Refer to Circuit Testing in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you find a condition?

 

Go to Step 29

 

Go to Step 27

 

10

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Inspect the 40-amp IGN B fuse in the underhood junction block. Refer to Circuit Protection - Fuses in Wiring Systems.

    

Is the fuse open?

 

Go to Step 11

 

Go to Step 18

 

11

 

 

1. Remove the 40-amp IGN B fuse from the underhood junction block.Notice: Refer to Test Probe Notice in Cautions and Notices.

    

    

2. Probe both fuse terminals in the underhood junction block with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

Does the test lamp illuminate on at least one fuse terminal?

 

Go to Step 12

 

Go to Step 17

 

12

 

Test the ignition 1 voltage circuit between the ignition switch and the underhood junction block for a short to ground. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you find and correct the condition?

 

Go to Step 30

 

Go to Step 13

 

13

 

Test the ignition switch assembly for a short to ground. Refer to Circuit Testing in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you find a condition?

 

Go to Step 28

 

Go to Step 14

 

14

 

Test the battery positive voltage circuit between the underhood junction block and the ignition switch for a short to ground. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you find and correct the condition?

 

Go to Step 30

 

Go to Step 15

 

15

 

Test the battery positive voltage bus bar circuit of the underhood junction block between the 40-amp IGN B fuse and the ignition switch for a short to ground.

 

Did you find a condition?

 

Go to Step 29

 

Go to Step 16

 

16

 

Test the ignition 1 voltage bus bar circuit of the underhood junction block that contains the ignition relay for a short to ground.

 

Did you find a condition?

 

Go to Step 29

 

Go to Step 27

 

17

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Probe the mounting stud for the battery positive cable at the underhood junction block with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

Does the test lamp illuminate?

 

Go to Step 29

 

Go to Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle in Vehicle DTC Information

 

18

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Remove the ignition relay with the J 43244 from the underhood junction block. Refer to Relay Replacement in Wiring Systems.Notice: Refer to Test Probe Notice in Cautions and Notices.

    

    

3. Probe the battery positive voltage circuit of the ignition relay at the underhood junction block with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

Does the test lamp illuminate?

 

Go to Step 19

 

Go to Step 29

 

19

 

 

1. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.

    

2. Probe the ignition 1 voltage circuit of the ignition relay at the underhood junction block with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

Does the test lamp illuminate?

 

Go to Step 23

 

Go to Step 20

 

20

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Test the ignition 1 voltage circuit between the ignition switch and the underhood junction block for a high resistance or for an open. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

    

Did you find and correct the condition?

 

Go to Step 30

 

Go to Step 21

 

<a name="S21">21

 

Test the ignition switch assembly for a high resistance or for an open. Refer to Circuit Testing in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you find a condition?

 

Go to Step 28

 

Go to Step 22

 

22

 

Test the battery positive voltage circuit between the ignition switch and the underhood junction block for a high resistance or for an open. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you find and correct the condition?

 

Go to Step 30

 

Go to Step 29

 

23

 

 

1. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.

    

2. Probe the coil ground circuit of the ignition relay at the underhood junction block with a test lamp that is connected to battery voltage. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

Does the test lamp illuminate?

 

Go to Step 25

 

Go to Step 24

 

24

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Disconnect the negative battery cable at the battery. Refer to Battery Negative Cable Disconnect/Connect Procedure in Engine Electrical.

    

3. Disconnect the underhood junction block electrical connectors.

    

4. Test the coil ground circuit of the ignition relay at the underhood junction block electrical connector for a high resistance or for an open. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

    

Did you find and correct the condition?

 

Go to Step 30

 

Go to Step 29

 

25

 

 

1. Turn OFF the ignition.

    

2. Jumper the ignition relay battery positive voltage circuit and the ignition relay load circuit together at the underhood junction block with a 20-amp fused jumper wire. Refer to Using Fused Jumper Wires in Wiring Systems.

    

3. Probe the following fuses with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground:

   - PCM 1

    

    

   - ETC/ECM

    

    

   - INJ 1

    

    

   - INJ 2

    

    

   - SBA, if equipped. Refer to

   Probing Electrical Connectors and Troubleshooting with a Test Lamp in Wiring Systems.

    

    

    

Does the test lamp illuminate on at least one test point of each fuse?

 

Go to Step 26

 

Go to Step 29

 

26

 

Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the underhood junction block, ignition relay connector location. Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you find a condition?

 

Go to Step 29

 

Go to Step 27

 

27

 

Replace the ignition relay. Refer to Relay Replacement in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you complete the replacement?

 

Go to Step 30

 

--

 

28

 

Replace the ignition switch. Refer to Ignition Switch Replacement in Steering Wheel and Column.

 

Did you complete the replacement?

 

Go to Step 30

 

--

 

29

 

Replace the underhood electrical center. Refer to Underhood Electrical Center or Junction Block Replacement in Wiring Systems.

 

Did you complete the replacement?

 

Go to Step 30

 

--

 

30

 

 

1. Replace any open fuses.

    

2. Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.

    

3. Attempt to start the engine.

    

Does the engine start and run?

 

Go to Step 31

 

Go to Engine Cranks but Does Not Run

 

31

 

 

1. Clear the DTCs with a scan tool.

    

2. Operate the vehicle for 5 minutes.

    

Does a DTC set during this ignition cycle?

 

Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle in Vehicle DTC Information

 

System OK

 

Document ID# 1469102

2006 Chevrolet Chevy C Silverado - 2WD

 

 

 

 

 

 

other than that, there is this:

 

 

 

Document ID# 1855756

2006 Chevrolet Chevy C Silverado - 2WD

Subject:Loss of Ignition 1 Voltage to the Ignition Coils - keywords 4.8 5.3 6.0 connector crank LR4 LM7 LQ4 LQ9 misfire nostart P0300 P0301 P0302 P0303 P0304 P0305 P0306 P0307 P0308 rough spark stall start #PIP3893 - (08/16/2006)

 

 

Models:2005-2006 Chevrolet Express, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe

 

 

 

2005-2006 GMC Savana, Sierra, Yukon

 

 

 

Equipped with a 4.8, 5.3 or 6.0 engine

 

 

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

 

Condition/Concern:

The customer concern may be a intermittent stall, misfire, or crank no start. There may be no trouble codes set.

 

Recommendation/Instructions:

Complete the current SI diagnostics for any symptoms or trouble codes found. If diagnostics are inconclusive, and a intermittent stall, misfire, or a crank no start can be duplicated, inspect for a loss of Ignition 1 voltage to the ignition coils. Wiggle test the ignition coil harnesses to see if the concern can be duplicated. Inspect splices S160 and S159 for loose connections. Also inspect connectors C148 and C149 for wires breaking near the connector. The pink ignition 1 power feed wire may break inside the insulation near connector C148/C149.

 

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

 

 

 

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

 

 

Document ID# 1855756

2006 Chevrolet Chevy C Silverado - 2WD

 

 

 

and this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Document ID# 2000247

2006 Chevrolet Chevy C Silverado - 2WD

Subject:TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns) - Canada ONLY #05-06-04-022D - (07/26/2007)

 

 

Models:2008 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks (Canada Only)

 

 

 

2008 and Prior Saab Vehicles (Canada Only)

 

 

 

2008 and Prior Saturn Vehicles (Canada Only)

 

 

 

2003-2008 HUMMER H2 (Canada Only)

 

 

 

2006-2008 HUMMER H3 (Canada Only)

 

 

This bulletin is being revised to update the information and include additional model years and sources to the TOP TIER Fuel Retailers list. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-06-04-022C (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System). In the U.S., refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-047G.

 

A new class of fuel called TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is appearing at retail stations of some fuel marketers. This gasoline meets detergency standards developed by six automotive companies. All vehicles will benefit from using TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline over gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" recommended by the Canadian General Standards Board (CGSB). Those vehicles that have experienced deposit related concerns may especially benefit from use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.

 

 

 

 

(1)Intake valve: 16,093 km (10,000 mi) with TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline (2)Intake valve: 16,093 km (10,000 mi) with Minimum Additive recommended by the CGSB

Top Tier Fuel Availability

Chevron was the first to offer TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline in Canada. Shell became the first national gasoline retailer to offer TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline across Canada. Petro-Canada began offering TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline nationally as of October 1, 2006. Sunoco began offering TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline in March of 2007.

 

 

Gasoline Brands That Currently Meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Standards

The following gasoline brands meet the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Standards in all octane grades :

 

 

• Chevron Canada (markets in British Columbia and western Alberta)

 

 

• Shell Canada (nationally)

 

 

• Petro-Canada (nationally)

 

 

• Sunoco-Canada (Ontario)

 

 

What is TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced detergency and no metallic additives. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards developed by six automotive companies that exceed the detergent recommendations of Canadian standards and does not contain metallic additives, which can damage vehicle emission control components.

 

 

Where Can TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Be Purchased?

The TOP TIER program began in the U.S. and Canada on May 3, 2004. Some fuel marketers have already joined and introduced TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline. This is a voluntary program and not all fuel marketers will offer this product. Once fuel marketers make public announcements, they will appear on a list of brands that meet the TOP TIER standards.

 

 

Who developed TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards?

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards were developed by six automotive companies: BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi.

 

 

Why was TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline developed?

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline was developed to increase the level of detergent additive in gasoline. In the U.S., government regulations require that all gasoline sold in the U.S. contain a detergent additive. However, the requirement is minimal and in many cases, is not sufficient to keep engines clean. In Canada, gasoline standards recommend adherence to U.S. detergency requirements but do not require it. In fact, many brands of gasoline in Canada do not contain any detergent additive. In order to meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards, a higher level of detergent is needed than what is required or recommended, and no metallic additives are allowed. Also, TOP TIER was developed to give fuel marketers the opportunity to differentiate their product.

 

 

Why did the six automotive companies join together to develop TOP TIER?

All six corporations recognized the benefits to both the vehicle and the consumer. Also, joining together emphasized that low detergency and the intentional addition of metallic additives is an issue of concern to several automotive companies.

 

 

What are the benefits of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner than gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" recommended by Canadian standards. Clean engines help provide optimal fuel economy and engine performance, and also provide reduced emissions. Also, the use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help reduce deposit related concerns.

 

 

Who should use TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?

All vehicles will benefit from using TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline over gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" recommended by Canadian standards. Those vehicles that have experienced deposit related concerns may especially benefit from use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline. More information on TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline can be found at http://www.toptiergas.com/.

 

 

 

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

 

 

Document ID# 2000247

2006 Chevrolet Chevy C Silverado - 2WD

[ZR Rider]

I will print this off, might help them.

[jrrod2004]

good luck and let us know if it helps any.....

[ZR Rider]

Well, just got off the phone, seems they have a nice new Acadia waiting for me. Letting me drive it till mine is fixed!

 

Glad mines covered. Just dump 600 into my wifes 01 Grand Am for a passlock issue. Have to find a bypass for that one. Not doing that again.

[jrrod2004]

I have never heard of Passlock being able to be bypassed (I could be proven wrong here in a bit)

[Lincoln30]

A few companies make Passlock bypass modules, you need a bypass whenever you want to use an aftermarket remote start in a modern GM vehicle. I think I have a Passlock II module from DEI on my 99. Obviously you have to buy the module that matches which version of Passlock your year model is using.