Calling all leveled/lifted trucks with All Terrain factory 20's

hutch08 · February 21, 2015

hutch08,

Yes, the Denali wheel shown in your thread above is the wheel my truck came with and they are 20x9 "0" offset. Only slight rub on sway bar at full-lock when running the Toyo Open Country eXtreme AT 295/55/R20 tires which I run in spring/summer. I run studded Hankooks during winter months here in Alaska.

Not sure where you got the info that the stock Denali wheels are "0 offset"... I personally went and looked at a set today and they're the same +27mm offset as the All-Terrain wheels.

2015 Take-Off Denali wheels:

Clearly not "0 offset" because you can see the amount of "dish" on the inside:

Even has it stamped right into the back:

I even double checked it with a measuring tape, the center hub sits about 1" towards the face of the rim... which is 27mm.

I'm interest in this because I will be going with the 2-1/2" RC with 275/6520 duratracs on AT wheels

You'll be fine, factory tires are a 275 and it's the width that'll make you rub the UCA. Seems like a 285 on stock offset wheels is the max you can run on a 2.5" level to avoid rubbing. Now that 275/65r20 is like a 34x11, so you might rub the fender because of the overall height, but I think it's doable. My 295/55r20 are 33x12's and I have plenty of clearance at the wheel wells.

Rewillia · February 21, 2015

Not sure where you got the info that the stock Denali wheels are "0 offset"... I personally went and looked at a set today and they're the same +27mm offset as the All-Terrain wheels.

2015 Take-Off Denali wheels:

Clearly not "0 offset" because you can see the amount of "dish" on the inside:

Even has it stamped right into the back:

I even double checked it with a measuring tape, the center hub sits about 1" towards the face of the rim... which is 27mm.

You'll be fine, factory tires are a 275 and it's the width that'll make you rub the UCA. Seems like a 285 on stock offset wheels is the max you can run on a 2.5" level to avoid rubbing. Now that 275/65r20 is like a 34x11, so you might rub the fender because of the overall height, but I think it's doable. My 295/55r20 are 33x12's and I have plenty of clearance at the wheel wells.

My wheels are the same 20x9xIS27; what I meant to imply is that I am not using any wheel spacer with the wider Toyo OC ATs.

hutch08 · February 21, 2015

My wheels are the same 20x9xIS27; what I meant to imply is that I am not using any wheel spacer with the wider Toyo OC ATs.

Sorry for the confusion... Haha I didn't realize we were talking about 2 different things. Do you know if you have steel or aluminum (black or silver) control arms? Also what psi are you running the Toyo's at?

I was having issues with offset when I was putting some new rims/tires on my grand cherokee. I mentioned spacers as an option to the shop that does all my work. They guy who I trust with my vehicles advised me that spacers are okay on cars, but he would never use them on something like a truck. There is just no way they are as strong as a properly offset wheel.

The stud length would be another concern of mine. Removing 1/2" of threads wouldn't seem right.

There's definitely a lot of misleading information on wheel spacers on the internet, no doubt some is true, but everyone thinks that your wheels will fall off if you run spacers. The key is taking measurements, buying quality parts, not some Made In China stamped steel with 12 holes for 3 different bolt patterns and proper installation/maintenance.

The shop I use mentioned running 1/4" spacers if I had to, but that would be the max for a safe amount of protruding stud length. I took some measurements just for curiosity today and here's what I came up with...

Factory studs are 45mm long with 32mm of actual threads. The lug nuts have 18mm of actual threads inside, the rest is just empty space.

All of the following measurements were taken with the actual useable stud. The aligning "nipple" portion of the stud is negligible.

The tapered lug nuts fit approx 5mm inside the wheel that's 15mm thick around the stud hole, so there's approx 22mm of available stud. In stock configuration the lug nuts make 13 full revolutions until "tight" to the rim.

By adding washers I was able to simulate the 6.35mm (1/4") wheel spacer, giving 15.65mm of available stud. The nut then took 8 full revolutions to make contact with the rim.

By adding more washers to simulate a 12.7mm (1/2") spacer, I was left with 9.3mm of available stud. it then took only 5 revolutions to contact the rim.

The general conscientious is that "Minimum thread contact should be at least 1x the stud diameter" or 6-8 full 360 turns. The factory studs are M14x1.5mm which means thread contact should be a minimum of 14mm.

With 1/4" spacers I'll have approx 8 full turns and just over 15mm of useable stud so that's max I'd feel comfortable running. Whether or not that will cure my rub issue is another story, it'll be close that's for sure.

Edited February 21, 2015 by hutch08

Rewillia · February 21, 2015

Aluminum (aka silver).

Did not know the '14 K-1500 comes with anything other (or if in fact they do). I do have the Z-71 pkg and the 6.2L V8 but again, would be surprised to learn if there is a difference in the upper control arms or lower for that matter.

As to your question on the Toyo A/Tii Open Country xTreme 295/55/r20's air pressure, as I recall from the TPMS, I'm running at 35 psi on all four which is the same I run my winter tires (Hankook IPike RWII, 275.55.R20 111T) currently installed.

And, just to reconfirm my set up is the Rough Country 2" front under-coil leveling with no change on the rear block and I only get a very slight rub on the front sway-bar at full-lock L/R turns at very slow speeds, i.e. parking lots. Since I'm aware of it, I try to be careful when making such tight radius turns to the extent I go out of my way to avoid the contact.

I also run in Auto AWD most of the time due to snow/ice road conditions here in Alaska.

My truck was assembled in Mexico.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Rewillia

hutch08 · February 21, 2015

Aluminum (aka silver). Did not know if the /14 K-1500 comes with anything other or if in fact they do. I do have the Z-71 pkg/6.2L but again, would be surprised to learn if there is a difference in the upper control arms or lower for that matter. As to the Toyo a/p, as I recall from the TPMS, I'm running at 35 psi on all four.

Yeah it seems to be hit or miss if you have the aluminum or steel (cast iron) control arms and knuckles. No one has really figured out a rhyme or reason to it. From what I've seen, the crew cab short boxes with higher trim packages always tend to have the aluminum suspension.... but on the same note I seen a 14' CrewCab short box High Country 6.2 with the steel arms haha. Maybe it has something to do with the z71 option??

Scottjan · February 22, 2015

Sorry for the confusion... Haha I didn't realize we were talking about 2 different things. Do you know if you have steel or aluminum (black or silver) control arms? Also what psi are you running the Toyo's at?

There's definitely a lot of misleading information on wheel spacers on the internet, no doubt some is true, but everyone thinks that your wheels will fall off if you run spacers. The key is taking measurements, buying quality parts, not some Made In China stamped steel with 12 holes for 3 different bolt patterns and proper installation/maintenance.

The shop I use mentioned running 1/4" spacers if I had to, but that would be the max for a safe amount of protruding stud length. I took some measurements just for curiosity today and here's what I came up with...

Factory studs are 45mm long with 32mm of actual threads. The lug nuts have 18mm of actual threads inside, the rest is just empty space.

All of the following measurements were taken with the actual useable stud. The aligning "nipple" portion of the stud is negligible.

The tapered lug nuts fit approx 5mm inside the wheel that's 15mm thick around the stud hole, so there's approx 22mm of available stud. In stock configuration the lug nuts make 13 full revolutions until "tight" to the rim.

By adding washers I was able to simulate the 6.35mm (1/4") wheel spacer, giving 15.65mm of available stud. The nut then took 8 full revolutions to make contact with the rim.

By adding more washers to simulate a 12.7mm (1/2") spacer, I was left with 9.3mm of available stud. it then took only 5 revolutions to contact the rim.

The general conscientious is that "Minimum thread contact should be at least 1x the stud diameter" or 6-8 full 360 turns. The factory studs are M14x1.5mm which means thread contact should be a minimum of 14mm.

With 1/4" spacers I'll have approx 8 full turns and just over 15mm of useable stud so that's max I'd feel comfortable running. Whether or not that will cure my rub issue is another story, it'll be close that's for sure.

Based on your measurements it sounds like this would be a fairly simple solution. Just a matter of whether 1/4" will fix it. If not it sounds like you could run up to 3/8" and still have enough thread contact with 6+ rotations.

hutch08 · February 22, 2015

Based on your measurements it sounds like this would be a fairly simple solution. Just a matter of whether 1/4" will fix it. If not it sounds like you could run up to 3/8" and still have enough thread contact with 6+ rotations.

Yeah you're right, to the minimum amount of threads at 14mm would leave me enough stud to run up to 8mm (5/16") thick spacers... and still have 6/7 full turns on the lug nuts.

hutch08 · March 19, 2015

A late update for anyone else interested... I ended up buying a set of 8mm hub centric spacers, which is around 5/16" thick. A little bigger than my initial plan of using 1/4" (6.35mm) spacers.

They're machined from billet aluminum and fit of the spacers seemed great. After installing them and the wheels I had just over 7 full turns until contact, then around one more turn while torqueing them down.

Tires now clear the sway bar completely and I have about 1/8" of clearance at the UCA at full lock. If I keep the wheel pinned all the way and back up I can still make the tire barely touch, but I never do that on a daily basis.

Track width was increased a little at the front, but due to the fenders and flaps it actually looks even like the back now.

fondupot · March 19, 2015

Hardly noticeable at all. I noticed a part where you said the stock lugs get 13 full turns, and now you have 7 full turns. Which is basically half.

Is it possible to lengthen the studs on the wheel bearings? If you added a longer stud, You could get more contact.

hutch08 · March 20, 2015

Hardly noticeable at all. I noticed a part where you said the stock lugs get 13 full turns, and now you have 7 full turns. Which is basically half.

Is it possible to lengthen the studs on the wheel bearings? If you added a longer stud, You could get more contact.

Yeah you can buy longer replacement studs but it's not necessary with this thickness spacer. I would NOT go any thicker though without replacing the studs.

I did a bunch of research because I was concerned about stud length, safety, etc... and pretty much everything lead me back to the same information.

No matter the size of the bolt, after 6 full revolutions the rest is "useless". Maximum strength is already achieved and it will provide no extra breaking protection or "grip strength". The general rule for vehicles is minimum 6 revolutions.

The spacer manufacture even states, "ATTENTION: When applying spacers, it may require you to install longer studs on your vehicle's hubs in order to get sufficient tightening of the lug nuts. Minimum 5 turns!"

Even though the I said factory position took 13 full turns, that's not actually true under further investigation. The stock lug nuts are only threaded probably the first half of the length on the inside, so of those 13 turns there was probably only 8 or 9 full revolutions making contact and the rest of the stud is just sitting inside the closed end of lug nut.

Just go to a bolt/nut bin and see for yourself...even grade 8 bolts no matter the size, you'll only get about 4 full revolutions of the nut before the bolt starts coming out the other side. I compared some small 1/4" bolts to some massive 1" bolts we use at work for bolting high pressure pumps together and sure enough, after 4 turns the the stud is coming out the other side.

diggman08 · March 23, 2015

I have 7/8" spacers from readylift, they actually bolt onto the hub and have a new set of studs that will be used for the wheels. may want to check them out. however, I haven't installed them yet, but was told I will need to grind a little off the oem studs for the spacer to fit tight. the 1/2" spacer wont give enough thread to use factory studs, from what I am told.

crushNchowda · March 24, 2015

I was having issues with offset when I was putting some new rims/tires on my grand cherokee. I mentioned spacers as an option to the shop that does all my work. They guy who I trust with my vehicles advised me that spacers are okay on cars, but he would never use them on something like a truck. There is just no way they are as strong as a properly offset wheel.

The stud length would be another concern of mine. Removing 1/2" of threads wouldn't seem right.

I run spacers on my winter setup, there's nothing wrong w/ them as long as it isn't extreme and you can torque the lugnuts to spec.

What could happen?

ADB0627 · June 8, 2015

Hutch - After running the spacers for a few months what is your impression? Also where did you purchase?

1badtie · June 9, 2015

So was the question ever answered? Why is this guy rubbing with a 295/55/20 while other guys with same AT wheels running a 305/55/20 MT tire not rubbing? I would like to know bc I have the AT wheels and planned on going with a 305/55/20.