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Why would this be any different than the factory plastic tubes?  Engine heat will melt any ice formations in the can/plumbing same as it would in the factory direct connected system.  Most mosture will likely drain back long before the engine cools enough to allow any freezing anyway.

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Good thread, tried to read through most of it, made it halfway.

 

Will the catch can void the manufacture warranty? Not a deal breaker but curious.

 

My last car was starting to allow an excessive amount of oil into the intake but it was direct injected and port injected, so I never really worried about the valves. I've seen other port injected cars with oil in the intakes and the valves were spotless. 

 

If i run a catch can i also will be doing some sort of induction cleaning service on a regular basis (or somewhat regular). My 2018 Silverado is less than 24 hours old and I've already put 250 miles on it (averaging 22 mpg...70 of those miles was in AWD).

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Why would this be any different than the factory plastic tubes?  Engine heat will melt any ice formations in the can/plumbing same as it would in the factory direct connected system.  Most mosture will likely drain back long before the engine cools enough to allow any freezing anyway.


I've seen some examples of this depending on the mounting position. If the lines run all the way out to the fender, they're a lot farther away from the engine than the factory hoses. Was just curious, trying to cover all my bases before I decide if I want to make the plunge or not.


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If freezing is  a really big concern in your area, you might want to use the master cylinder bolt mounting location.  That puts the can near the driver's side exhaust manifold.  Probably the warmest place you could mount it.

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3 hours ago, Doublebase said:

Good thread, tried to read through most of it, made it halfway.

 

Will the catch can void the manufacture warranty? Not a deal breaker but curious.

 

My last car was starting to allow an excessive amount of oil into the intake but it was direct injected and port injected, so I never really worried about the valves. I've seen other port injected cars with oil in the intakes and the valves were spotless. 

 

If i run a catch can i also will be doing some sort of induction cleaning service on a regular basis (or somewhat regular). My 2018 Silverado is less than 24 hours old and I've already put 250 miles on it (averaging 22 mpg...70 of those miles was in AWD).

Read the rest of this last page, should cover your warranty questions.

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1 hour ago, Mike GMC said:

Read the rest of this last page, should cover your warranty questions.

Thanks, just went back and checked it. Some good info.

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If freezing is  a really big concern in your area, you might want to use the master cylinder bolt mounting location.  That puts the can near the driver's side exhaust manifold.  Probably the warmest place you could mount it.


I don't yet, still in sunny southern California. Just planning for the future, and letting my OCD take over my research ;). What I'll most likely end up doing is a single in single out can so that I can swap back to stock fairly easily before going back to the dealer for any reason


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That's what I have.  It would seem to me that the second valve could be plumbed to the "spare" port on the passenger side of the air box rather than tapped into the top center.  The air velocity would be much lower at that port, but it might still work fine if you want a dual valve and want be able to go back to stock quickly and easily.

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So what would be the symptoms if one or both hoses become totally clogged?

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I live in a place where it gets pretty darn cold in the winter (-20 or worse) and I've not had a problem with lines freezing and my truck sits outside 24x7x365. My E2-X is mounted off the brake booster.

 

As far as invalidating factory warranty, the installation of a catch can shouldn't invalidate anything, but some dealerships (including my own) says it will. I don't necessarily believe it will, but I'm not going to fight them over it. If I ever take my truck into the dealership for any engine work I'll simply remove the can, put everything back to stock and they will be none the wiser.

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Has anyone here had their can installed early on in the trucks life (before 5k miles or so), and now above 30-40k+ miles? Would be interested to see a picture of the valves on a truck like this compared to the pictures I've seen at 40k+ miles without a can installed early on in the trucks life.


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On 1/28/2018 at 9:16 AM, Elite Engineering said:

ONLY use a full synthetic oil and at least a 10w40 weight. We prefer Amsoil 5w50 Signature series. It deals very well with the raw fuel washdown, and as full synthetic leaves little to no residue when burned, it greatly reduces the rate of intake valve coking.

The tech from Elite Engineering mentioned this in a post from last year but never explained his reasoning on this. I realize this is a catch can thread but I'm sure the amount of residue recovered is directly related to the viscosity of the oil being used. I would love to know his views on this and why he advised using 10W40 or 5W50 knowing full well that the recommended oil we "must" use is 0W20.  

 

 

This is his full posting:

I thought we should address this before it gets out of hand:

 

If you install a vented breathered, or other type of Catch Can that in any way defeats, deletes, or reduces the OEM functions of the PCV system, yes, that is 100% grounds for a dealer to void your warranty as it can directly cause failure over time to the engine or components.

 

This link here to the FTC's guidelines covers all, but is a long read: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/federal_register_notices/2015/05/150522mag-mossfrn.pdf

This is a more automotive specific summary: https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/01/ftc-validates-right-to-install-aftermarket-parts

 

In short, it is a violation of Federal Law to void your warranty for the installation of one of our systems as we maintain ALL emissions requirements and the installation and use of one of our systems when installed and used properly could in no way cause any damage or failure, just the opposite.

 

The FTC site also has forms and offered assistance to file a complaint if you are scammed by a dealer in regard to this as well as who to bring possible charges against them.

Our systems retain a 100% closed system. It in no way (unlike a breather or vented can) reduces any of the OEM functions and in fact converts to full time evacuation when using one of our dual valve versions as all GDI engines should.  You also have to beware of Catch Cans that drain-back or return the damaging compounds back to the engine (far more than oil is trapped in a system, water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter mainly), as they are returning a concentrate of what the PCV system is designed to remove.

So, only one documented case in our history had a warranty claim denied, and those that followed the story and resolution know the dealer misdiagnosed a bad engine when it was a well know problem, a failed oil pump and the owner ended up fixing it himself.

 

Out of the tens of thousands of our systems in use today, that has been the ONLY case.  If a dealer hassles you, there are Mag. Moss specialty law firms that can assist you very inexpensively, but usually just using the FTC is all you need.

Now, let’s go on to why you would want to use one of our systems. First, it is a choice, you made the investment in your vehicle and only you can make the decision on how to care for it, so here are some facts to consider:

As no fuel touches the intake valves on a GDI engine, the valves are subject to far higher operating temperatures and thus contaminates entering the intake air charge (oil, etc.) bake onto the backsides and rapidly form "coking" deposits. Unlike engines of the past, these deposits bake into a very hard and abrasive formation that is similar to sand in its abrasiveness, so as the particles shed, although most is expelled out the exhaust, some is forced between the piston and cylinder walls causing scouring over time.  This damage leads to increased blow-by and oil consumption.

 

Then, we have to look at another factor. As these engines operate at higher compression ratios and the fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber at 2,000-3,000 PSI, many times the amount of raw fuel is pushed past the pings and washes oil from the cylinder walls. This fuel also dilutes the engine oil substantially reducing viscosity and the oils ability to protect properly. Our dual valve systems provide full time evacuation so these damaging compounds are flushed and evacuated (sucked out) as soon as they enter so most is removed before it has a chance to settle and accumulate in the crankcase and the engine oil.

Combine this with the abrasive particulate matter also entering the crankcase and never before has it been more important to your engines life to take steps to prevent the wear all GDI engines are subject to.

 

So, we have covered the intake valve coking (we prevent up to 85% of the coking to ever form in the first place). We have explained the fuel washdown and other contaminates and how we deal with them. Now we have the immediate benefits. And that is the reduction of detonation caused knock retard. Your engine as mentioned is a higher compression ratio than past Port Injection engines, so ANY amount of oil mist or other compounds present in the intake air charge contribute to detonation or pre-ignition. By removing these prior to having a chance to enter the intake air charge, you reduce detonation and knock retard and your engine will maintain optimum ignition timing advance making more power and getting better fuel economy.

 

One final aspect is ALL newer engines come with "low tension" piston rings. This is to help the automaker meet ever increasing CAFE fuel economy standards, just like the super thin oils the owner’s manual recommends (has nothing to do with what’s "best" for protecting your engine) and these rings rely on pressure above, and suction below to maintain stability and proper seal. When you allow pressure to build by NOT pulling proper crankcase suction at all times, the rings enter a state known as "Ring Flutter" when pressure is allowed to build. This is the rings vibrating rapidly under heavy loads and high RPM's compounding seal and blow-by issues, and over time wearing the leading edges of the rings as well as the ringlands and wearing divots or chatter marks into the cylinder walls (engine builders see this and know of this). So, there are so many benefits and zero negatives to implementing a system like our E2 or E2-X system.

 

So, we hope this answers your questions. Other tips for avoiding issues:

 

ONLY use a full synthetic oil and at least a 10w40 weight. We prefer Amsoil 5w50 Signature series. It deals very well with the raw fuel washdown, and as full synthetic leaves little to no residue when burned, it greatly reduces the rate of intake valve coking.

 

Top tier fuels. Although they touch nothing inside the engine unlike port injection engines of old, and nothing in the fuel system can benefit from them, they do help keep injectors clean and operating properly.

 

Oil change intervals. As GDI engines are subject to far more of the compounds that overwhelm the engine oils ability to protect, more frequent changes are definitely a good thing. Do NOT rely on that oil change message. We recommend every 5k miles.

 

Do NOT use a solvent based engine running upper induction cleaning!!!  While safe on Port injection engines of the past, the abrasive nature of the deposits causes damage when these are loosened with the engine running and are not safe regardless of manufacturer claims. We tear into these motors on a regular basis and see the damage caused.

 

Questions? Ask.  Contact our Technical Support team direct at: [email protected]  Sales at: [email protected]

 

Does not matter if you own our products or not, we are committed to educating and assisting in every way possible as there is so much mis-information out there it is hard to know what is false, and what is accurate.

 

Cheers!

 

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On 4/18/2018 at 2:45 PM, jgraves13 said:

Has anyone here had their can installed early on in the trucks life (before 5k miles or so), and now above 30-40k+ miles? Would be interested to see a picture of the valves on a truck like this compared to the pictures I've seen at 40k+ miles without a can installed early on in the trucks life.


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Also interested in this!  I've been tossing the idea around and I have about 2k on it now.  Early prevention is key for carbon build-up, but I was hoping to see some pics for proof!

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I live in Upstate NY, cold half of the year lol

No issues with freezing or clogging. Moisture mixed with oil whats in the can will have heck of a time freezing  i would think. Unless you park it for a week in the below freezing cold.

 

Mine has been working great, no issues in any climate.

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The 5w-50 recommendation is a surprise.  While I seem to recall GM recommending that weight oil for tracking a Vette, this is contrary GM's recommendation for a DD in average conditions.

 

It's been stated many times by oil mfrs that the most wear, in a typical car on the road, occurs upon  start-up. I beleive that is on the Mobil 1 site as well. The BITOG site has some information on this as well.  One of the big touted  advantages of synthetics is their ability to flow well in cold.  This reduces the time the engine is running with no oil flow on the bearings.  

 

The flip side is a heavy weight oil maintains bearing floatation during extreme pressures better than a lighter weight.   

 

So, I think the question becomes: How do you drive and in what climate conditions?   

 

For example; if using like a typical car, the OEM recommended weight would more likely than not be the best choice.  Conversely, if you drive in hot weather for long trips, towing heavy loads up mountains, a heavy weight makes sense.   I see it 'as a trade-off of where your particular usage produces the most wear.  

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