Couple Looking for Intro to Home Defense

Yonah_Mtn · November 19, 2018

As I believe more bullets or shells are better than being different; I don't see anything worth debating. You disagree which is your right. OTOH, because if its greater ft-lbs of force; I prefer a slug to #1 buck. OTOH, in real estate they say location, location, and might I say location.. With killing, it is shot placement, shot placement, and did I say shot placement?

I apologize for being ex-military as it makes you wonder.. So let us keep it simple. When facing a charging bear, you believe 2 shots are better than 7 or 5 from a shotgun, correct:? Here, we differ and strongly..

As you never served with me, don't question my abilities in combat.. I didn't spend 30 months in combat to be so disrespected.. OTOH and IMO, those who did serve in combat would get the difference between more bullets than less bullets..

Cowpie · November 19, 2018

4 hours ago, Yonah_Mtn said:

As I believe more bullets or shells are better than being different; I don't see anything worth debating. You disagree which is your right. OTOH, because if its greater ft-lbs of force; I prefer a slug to #1 buck. OTOH, in real estate they say location, location, and might I say location.. With killing, it is shot placement, shot placement, and did I say shot placement?

I apologize for being ex-military as it makes you wonder.. So let us keep it simple. When facing a charging bear, you believe 2 shots are better than 7 or 5 from a shotgun, correct:? Here, we differ and strongly..

As you never served with me, don't question my abilities in combat.. I didn't spend 30 months in combat to be so disrespected.. OTOH and IMO, those who did serve in combat would get the difference between more bullets than less bullets..

What part of what I said about when I lived in Alaska that I preferred something different than what I prefer living in the lower 48 did you not understand?

If you feel disrespected, I really don't care. You didn't serve with me, I didn't serve with you. And it is probably best that we didn't . I also am very aware about getting into shootouts where one needs to control their rate of fire because resupply may not be forthcoming very quickly, often times many, many hours or even throughout the night. Only the cherries did the spray and pray nonsense. Controlled accurate directed fire is the name of the game unlike what Hollywood would like folks to think. And when I was in a situation that called for a massive amount of firepower, that is what Arty and air strikes were all about. Far more effective to drop a 105 or 155 on top of someone than blow off half of one's ammo in small arms fire. Even room clearing, that is what a couple of frags and a belt of 7.62 from someone below shooting thru the floor into the room above is all about.

Of course, we could all buy a howitzer and shoot a 105mm beehive round at anything that might threaten our home. 5000 nails with fins on them does a very good job. That will take care of a attacking bear pretty well also. But it still remains.... most folks will never even come close to experiencing a attacking bear inside their home. 10 years living in Alaska and I never saw evidence of a bear around my house, let alone trying to attack me inside my house.

And home defense was the OP's original point of this thread. So let's try to stay on point and not discuss what one might run into out in the woods or down the street. And the average person is not going to be the best at shot placement when they are rousted out of bed in the middle of the night to their door being broken into. A light shotgun that has a couple of barrels with two triggers, with a load of reduced recoil #1 buck that will spread at a rate of 1" per yard from a 20" cylinder bore choke is just about the best defense for the average home owner. Most home invasion incursions are stopped in a couple of shots.

You might want to read up on some of what Massad Ayoob, a former military combat NCO and long time LEO and firearms instructor that is highly respected in the firearms community and recognized by the NRA and the military as one of the best experts in the field has written about home defense. His recommendations for the average home owner are pretty close to mine.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Cowpie

swathdiver · November 19, 2018

On 1/16/2018 at 11:18 AM, Nick The Great said:

I worry more about wall penetration if worse comes to worse. I don't plan on shooting in the hallway towards my kids' bedrooms, but you never know.

Decades ago, the FBI and Federal developed Hi-Shok ammunition for handguns that would not over-penetrate while still stopping bad guys. Today it can still be found in the Classic line of ammunition by Federal.

Like others, I think a doublegun most effective for home defense. Course, if my home was 10,000+ square feet, then the most effective weapon could very well change.

MikeNH · November 21, 2018

On 11/19/2018 at 4:04 AM, swathdiver said:

Decades ago, the FBI and Federal developed Hi-Shok ammunition for handguns that would not over-penetrate while still stopping bad guys. Today it can still be found in the Classic line of ammunition by Federal.

Basically every hollow point pistol round made does the exact same thing. I run Gold Dots in my pistols. Round of choice for countless federal agencies as well as plenty of police departments. I have readily available a handgun, shotgun and AR and wouldn't hesitate to use any of these (though the AR would likely be a last resort living in an apartment) and wouldn't hesitate to use any of them if need be. I'd rather face a bully prosecutor or brainless jury than hamper myself by using a firearm that looks less menacing.

Spurshot · November 22, 2018

Over the decades, I've loaded a number of different HP bullets and bought a bunch of factory stuff. Most of the popular HP stuff has had countless gel and other media tests and many have been proven in LEO service. I think it'd be hard to go wrong with the mainstream namebrands. I think I still have some "Black Talon" stuff around and I know I have the name change only stuff that was forced by the hysteria over that brand. The hysteria over that stuff pretty much made it a bad idea to use it in your HD gun after that. I think most of us just shot it up and moved to the next HP high tech ammo. I may be mistaken, but I think the early Hi-Shok Federal stuff was Sierra HP bullets. I would occasionally have misfeeds in some stock guns (1911s) with that stuff and that caused me to favor more rounded HP bullets as opposed to the truncated shape of the Sierra.

Cowpie · November 22, 2018

I will modify my original responses. Another option that would make a reliable home self defense firearm would be one of the Henry Big Boy steel carbines in the pistol magnum calibers. Short, light, great handling by women or men, easy to use, light recoil even for a magnum load in a compact rifle package, and more than adequate stopping power. No risks of the round being overpowered for owner's hands, especially in the .357 or .41 varieties. Plenty of self defense designed rounds available. The Henry's are well known for their smoothness of operation and reliability. One can leave the chamber empty for safety reasons when it is sitting and very quickly stroke the lever and have a round in battery and hammer ready to drop on it. No safety levers to mess with. Just simple cock and ready to roll. Far easier than most folks, under pressure and fear, can reliably operate a handgun slide unless they have done what they should do and practice, practice, practice. And there are some great low light sights made for those Henry's.

Over penetration can be a spurious concept. if something will go thru a man, it will go thru drywall, and might not even fragment in the process.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Cowpie