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Grumpy Bear

Sugar Bears 2015 GMC Terrain SLE-2 2.4 AWD

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12 hours ago, Doublebase said:

I know you’re not going to listen to me,

Wow Mike I'm hurt. :tear: It's the bat crap crazy people I don't listen to. :rolleyes: You're not even mildly obnoxious. :lol:

 

We've made such good progress with this motor that a replacement is not currently on the table. A few ounces between 2500 mile OCI's verses a quart per tankful is major progress. Almost perfect. Besides, it's still teaching me things that will be useful  in her Verano. Same motor with but 14K on the clock and living on AMSOIL SS. Sort of a Guinea Pig.

 

I don't consider it a failed experiment. It would be a failure if I failed to learn from it and learn I have.

 

Don't trust mineral oil based Group III or III+ Full Synthetics in motors with low tension oil rings to go 5K OCI intervals and expect the rings not to collapse. Not even if the UOA shows you have 50% acid package left. I expect that would also be true of motors with 200 F + water thermostats or turbo motors. 

 

In a recent thread I was following a fella with a pre 2014 5.3 with collapsed rings just did the full TSB, deflector, valve cover etc. then did the same GM upper cylinder soak we did and his quit using oil as well. Those motors also have low tension oil rings. So that is two that have recovered collapsed ring sets at or near 100K miles in service. I believe he was a Mobil 1 guy. We used QSUD. Both Group III Full Synthetics. 

 

No new motor and no trades on the horizon. Thanks for dropping in!! 

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11 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Wow Mike I'm hurt. :tear: It's the bat crap crazy people I don't listen to. :rolleyes: You're not even mildly obnoxious. :lol:

 

We've made such good progress with this motor that a replacement is not currently on the table. A few ounces between 2500 mile OCI's verses a quart per tankful is major progress. Almost perfect. Besides, it's still teaching me things that will be useful  in her Verano. Same motor with but 14K on the clock and living on AMSOIL SS. Sort of a Guinea Pig.

 

 

 

No new motor and no trades on the horizon. Thanks for dropping in!! 

That's great because I enjoy reading your build threads - as I enjoy vehicle longevity and maintenance. 

 

Low tension rings are certainly a problem nowadays, mostly with poor oil quality and neglect. And with manufacturers telling their customers that they can go 10,000 miles on their oil changes - knowing full well that they are only on the hook until that warranty ends - they are seeing problems at around 120,000 miles. And the manufacturer doesn't care.  

 

Those rings just don't have enough tension to come out of their lands when they get sooted and sludged up. They stay stuck in there. First the oil ring, then the compression rings, then your cylinder wall get scored, then it's game over. But that takes time and I think it can be prevented and even slowed down enough with the methods you are implementing (if the walls aren't damaged). And if the rings aren't too stuck.

 

Shorter intervals, periodic piston soaks. 

 

As you know, I now own a Toyota. Life has become almost boring. No oil consumption, no issues with the car. Just take care of it and drive it a ton. But Toyotas ARE developing engine problems now because of their 10,000 mile suggested drain interval. And it's not happening until later on (around the 100,000-120,00 mile mark). But there are youtube videos about it from Toyota techs. And if you ever talk to a Toyota tech, most of them will tell you the same thing...don't go 10,000 miles, stick between 4,000-5,5000 using a nice quality synthetic. My previous vehicle before my Silverado was a Lexus LS460, and I made the mistake of trying extended drains (as people were saying the 10,000 mile intervals applied to our cars too). Well, a few of us tried that on the forums...everything went great until we hit that higher mileage area of 120,000 miles. Then the oil consumption started...and got worse and worse. Ended up keeping mine until at 180,000 miles - at that point it was using around a quart every 1,000 miles - didn't try the piston soak, wish I had.  Probably still have that car today, if I had. 

Edited by Doublebase
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134,239 Miles

 

1,835 miles on this change. 761 to go for 2,500 mile target. 

There is some moisture in the filler cap but no white snot or foam.

It's been near zero here for quite a few days. This seems normal for an orifice vent system. 

Still full and the first time we've gone this far without observing some measurable usage. 

It is also unusually clean for this many miles based on past experience with this motor and this oil.

As we have used the same oil for some time I believe this means it's finally cleaning up. 

 

 

  

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Tire Review at 45K

 

Continental Cross Contact LX 20's. We mounted these retiring the Michelins at 90K. We've had some snow this year and coupled with this SUV's AWD it is quite sure footed. They are wearing very well. Ride very nice. Quite, very quite. Zero issues in the rain and more than is required in the summer. How spirited can you get with a 2.4 I4? They brake well, wet or dry. Grooved pavement is noticeable but not objectionable. I really don't have a solid knock on this tire for this application other that it seems they are quietly retiring this tire replacing it with the LX25. A tread pattern change. At least in the size this SUV needs. 

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135,000 Mile Service

 

02/23/2021

134,963 actual

2,559 miles this OCI

8 ounces total make up oil. for a usage rate of a quart per 10,000 miles.

 

5 Quarts COSTCO Kirkland 5W30 Dexos 1 Gen 2

1 PL15436 Purolator Pure One oil filter

1 AC-Delco OEM Direct Fit #22868414 passenger side wiper blade (torn)

1 Tire Rotation. Tires look awesome. 

 

Condensation in the fill cap and some white in the vent. Made it to 2,000 miles without a measurable usage than half a cup over a 300 mile Interstate trip. Topped of then none used over then remaining 200+  miles. Keeping a close eye on this. Did it kick 8 ounces of condensation out over the 5 hour road trip or is it using allot again? Next few weeks will tell on it. It's warmed back up here and now over freezing so the vent should be working better now. 

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136,212 Miles

 

3/8/2021

 

46,000 on these Continental LX20 tires and over 8/32". Not bad. Wearing evenly. 

 

Cleared PCV vent and moisture went away. Start the motor and unscrew the oil filler. When the port is clear it will draw a vacuum that cycles with the cylinder pulse. A stiff piece of single layer cardboard pulses over the hole sounding like a balloon in a kids bicycle wheel. Just pulsing the cap on and off a few times cleared it this time saving me $500 and a few day trouble. I think the air inlet tube, in the winter, collects moisture then freezes. No flow is not good.

 

1,250 miles on this oil change and level is at the upper mark. Right after a change it is a bit above that at the top of the torpedo. So a few ounces so far.  

 

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136,536 Miles

 

1,573 this OCI still holding oil level. Best run so far.  

 

Valve cover cap in now totally dry. I'm stating to think that this goofy no PCV valve PCV system is just undersized on the air in side. Playing with the idea of installing a vacuum/pressure gauge in the fill cap and just monitor crankcase pressures for awhile to see what I can learn. 

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Posted (edited)

3/15/2021

 

I expect this may be getting boring for regular readers so a graph to stir those brain cells. 

 

 

(New chart uploaded)

 

Bottom to top the progress that has been made with the cleanings and short OCI's on freeing the rings of this motor. The yellow is a current projection based on add and miles to date this OCI. 

 

Interesting reading:

http://www.astmtmc.cmu.edu/ftp/docs/gas/emissions_task_force/minutes/20060504/sae2004-01-2909.pdf

 

More more interesting reading: 

https://cdn2.ms-motorservice.com/fileadmin/media/MAM/PDF_Assets/Oil-consumption-and-oil-loss_51747.pdf

 

 

Normal will be considered 6.39 ounces per 2500 miles or a quart in 12,500 miles. If this were a new motor with the first 250 break-in hours 60% of this would be more normal. A quart in 20K or a pint in a 5K OCI. (Given a 25 mpg fuel usage)

 

This motor is pretty close. The dip in the last 2500 OCI was the much lower fuel efficiency over February. Remember oil usage is tied to load and load tied to MPG. 

 

Edited by Grumpy Bear

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Posted (edited)

136,963 Miles

 

2,000 miles straight up and added 6 ounces to bring to the full mark. 

 

That equals a quart in 10,667 miles and the last check before change in 500 miles. 

 

(New chart posted following post)

 

Previous charts will be deleted as new data is added. 

 

Not as good as it looked it might be. But progress still. I'm beginning to think that data point 5 is suspect.

 

Crazy as this sounds the local car wash provides a place for a dead level reading. I just have to straddle the grating then move forward or backward until the inclination gauge shows -3 degrees (frame rake). The straddle gives 0 degrees side to side.  I have never owned a vehicle that is so sensitive to even being slightly off level. Even 2 degrees off = three ounces or a 1/10 of a liter. 

 

I'll try to uncomplicate the previous calculation for the USA crowd. 

 

Your OCI is 5,000 miles. During that time your truck consumes 294.12 gallons of fuel. A straight up 17 measured mpg. 

 

.03% of 294.12 = .0882 GALLONS of oil consumed or .3528 quarts or about 11 ounces AVERERAGE MINIMUM

.05% of 294.12 = .1471 GALLONS of oil consumed or .5884 quarts or almost 19 ounces MAXIMUM

 

Some will do better but more than a bit over half a quart in 5,000 miles signals something wrong somewhere. 

 

Just remember it is gallons of fuel burnt not miles driven and the result is in gallons so you have to convert it to a more convenient unit. 

Edited by Grumpy Bear

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137,500 Mile Service

 

2,537 Actual OCI

Used 8 Oz this service. 

 

5 Quarts COSTCO Kirkland 5W30

1 Purolator Pure One PL15436 Filter

Tires still 8/32" and wearing even. Pressure adjustment only. 

 

Identified right rear wheel bearing failing. Part ordered. 

Transmission parts for Manual selection, a button, now in stock. 

Appointment for Saturday for hub replacement, trans repair and an alignment that is long over due. 

 

New updated usage chart with projection for this change. I'm seeing a pattern here. 😉 

 

image.png.5007cb21e581c9b967a73febd522401f.png

 

 

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Posted (edited)

137,800 Repair Services

 

Mixed bag for a visit to the shop. Turns out the wheel bearing was fine. A chunk of limestone wedged between the dust shield and the rotor trapped by the caliper. Had to disassemble to remove. That stunk but saved about $350 in bearing/hub and labor. 

 

Boys took the shifter apart to repair the manual mode +/- button only to find the 'new one' we waited all winter for (thanks Covid) was broken. Be about another week to exchange. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

 

Alignment was a surprise. Right front toe was the major out. If fact the only out of spec dimension. A quarter degree!! Positive. A regular snow plow. Oddly the front center spec is about 0.18 degrees total toe. About twice what I am use to seeing. These things have a wide camber spec. 3 degrees or so with zero being zero. This one has -0.9 degrees across the board. Castor was down the middle at 2.5 degrees. 

 

Even though tires are rotated every 5K and balanced every 10K this much toe has worn the shoulder corner blocks enough to emit some noise. Not bad enough to toss them or even be an annoyance but some. With 8/32" remaining it will be awhile before we do a more accurate alignment and mount new tires. 

 

The icing on the cake. Correcting the toe...well you would call me a liar if I told you have much difference in made in mileage. I only have one 100 mile data point anyway but it made a measurable difference in a two way run, against and with the wind. Let's just say that before the correction I would need to run 10 mph slower to get the with the wind numbers I got into the wind. This is the exact same response I got from Pepper on her first alignment. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Grumpy Bear

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Posted (edited)

138,243 Miles

 

Started her up this morning and the Stabilitrac, ABS, Traction control and No AWD lights up the dash. 743 miles between services. :crackup:

 

Wheel speed sensor no doubt but it will be next Tuesday before the shop can have a look. Slammed this week. Anyway so took the wife for a short drive to show her how to silence the alarms. Something that has to be twice on each start up. And explain to here the 'copilot' is on break so make good decisions, right? 

 

Oh and guess what? The pulse in pedal is gone. The one we haven't been able to chase down. No ABS, no pulse. OMG.  

Edited by Grumpy Bear

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