Which Engine Oil (conventional or synthetic)

Grumpy Bear · July 28, 2017

I'm a big fan of Synthetic Lubricants. Problem anymore is separating the liars from the truth. By that I mean Hydrocracked dewaxed Dino juice isn't a real synthetic. It's just conventional dewaxed, sulfur removed and the cut is a little tighter. Many of the so called synthetics and semi synthetics are just that. A few more that use to be true synthetics no longer are. Darn few are gong to tell you what he base oil is. However there are indeed exceptions. Two I'm sure of are:

Amsoil, a POA and Red LIne a Neopentyl polyol ester. I run Red LIne in things that matter more to me. Especially turbo motors.

That said there are allot of commercial truckers that run Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic. I just don't know anything personally about it but it looks like that crazy clown moderator does.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Grumpy Bear

JRKRACE · July 29, 2017

Voodoo science if you ask me........

It all depends on what the truck is and the region. If it's uber cold outside for a long time, then synthetic has it's place. If the truck is an LBZ or older, the extended runs on the oil would make sense for synthetic. I run my EGR blocked LBZ on Mobil 1 for 7500-8000 miles,or whenever the oil change indicator tells me (20%), which is usually the same period. 105K miles with zero issues. My LML on the other hand is totally stock, so I use Delvac 1300 for 5000 or so miles or until the oil life monitor gets to about 20%. I believe these new trucks need more frequent changes due to all the EGR these engines ingest. If using the oil monitor, the LBZ goes a lot longer than the LML.

Silver16 · July 29, 2017

Edited July 29, 2017 by Surfarado

KARNUT · July 29, 2017

There are three car manufacturers I know of that have extended drains Honda,Toyota, VW. Their oil must be synthetic. Amsoil, Redline, I know to be too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Silver16 · July 29, 2017

There are three car manufacturers I know of that have extended drains Honda,Toyota, VW. Their oil must be synthetic. Amsoil, Redline, I know to be too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subaru as well.

KARNUT · July 29, 2017

Subaru as well.

My 06 Trail Blazer SS was on Mobil 1, between 12-15K the oil change light would come on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cowpie · November 4, 2017

On 7/28/2017 at 7:42 AM, Grumpy Bear said:

I'm a big fan of Synthetic Lubricants. Problem anymore is separating the liars from the truth. By that I mean Hydrocracked dewaxed Dino juice isn't a real synthetic. It's just conventional dewaxed, sulfur removed and the cut is a little tighter. Many of the so called synthetics and semi synthetics are just that. A few more that use to be true synthetics no longer are. Darn few are gong to tell you what he base oil is. However there are indeed exceptions. Two I'm sure of are:

Amsoil, a POA and Red LIne a Neopentyl polyol ester. I run Red LIne in things that matter more to me. Especially turbo motors.

That said there are allot of commercial truckers that run Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic. I just don't know anything personally about it but it looks like that crazy clown moderator does.

What is truly bizarre is those that waste a lot of time even worrying about it. Even base conventional oil is light years ahead of what it was at the turn of the centrury. Commercial heavy trucks are getting OEM recommended drain intervals of 35,000 - 50,000 miles on HDEO blends. I really don't think a PAO Class IV base motor oil would do any better than the blend I have been using in my commercial diesel. 758,000 miles on the 12.7L engine now, 22,000 mile oil changes, only uses about 2 qt of oil in that time frame, Not a single engine repair in that 758,000 miles. Wear numbers on oil samples look almost identical to what they were at 50,000 miles. There is nothing a PAO would have brought to the game to justify the higher price.

And so many forget that the additive package makes up about 20% of any motor oil. It is the add pack that really makes the difference between oils more than the base oil.

A "lot of commercial truckers" is a relative comment. There are over 2.5 million commercial trucks in the U.S and it is doubtful that 1% of them are running full synthetic motor oils. Most do use synthetic gear lubes and transmission oil. But engine oil? Hardly a drop in the bucket of commercial engine oil selection. And the heavy commercial engine OEM's are recommending from 35,000 to 50,000 mile oil change intervals on conventional and blend oils.

And most of Amsoil's motor oil product line is a "blend". Maybe not conventional and synthetic, but Group III "faux" synthetic and Group IV PAO. And there is not really any appreciable difference the average user would ever see between Group III and Group IV. Just seems to be a purist argument with no real substance. A holdover old wives tale from the 80's.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Cowpie

redwngr · November 4, 2017

On 7/29/2017 at 4:19 PM, KARNUT said:

My 06 Trail Blazer SS was on Mobil 1, between 12-15K the oil change light would come on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your trailblazer, or any other gm product, has no way of knowing what oil grade you decided to put in it.

The OLM assumes that the oil used is the oil recommended in the owners manual.

The Oil Life Monitor gives it's % life remaining info base on how the vehicle is used. There is no 'oil condition sensor' in the vehicle.

I'm certainly not trying to say you shouldn't use Mobil1, but the OLM has no idea that you decided to do that.

Edited November 4, 2017 by redwngr

KARNUT · November 4, 2017

Your trailblazer, or any other gm product, has no way of knowing what oil grade you decided to put in it.

The OLM assumes that the oil used is the oil recommended in the owners manual.

The Oil Life Monitor gives it's % life remaining info base on how the vehicle is used. There is no 'oil condition sensor' in the vehicle.

I'm certainly not trying to say you shouldn't use Mobil1, but the OLM has no idea that you decided to do that.

Really? I don’t know what you’re point is, manufacturers have enough confidence in blends and synthetics to go extended. The responsibility to put the right oil in is up to the owner. Just like paying taxes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

redwngr · November 4, 2017

2 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Really? I don’t know what you’re point is, manufacturers have enough confidence in blends and synthetics to go extended. The responsibility to put the right oil in is up to the owner. Just like paying taxes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess I misread.

I interpreted your post as 'owner switching the oil to mobil1 resulted in longer OCI', rather than as 'GM used Mobil1 for this vehicle and programmed the OLM to recognize the benefit of the synthetic.

Point I was trying to make for others was that the OLM is programmed for the oil recommended in the OM -- and it has no idea if the owner decides to use a higher or lower performance lubricant.

Sorry about the confusion.

KARNUT · November 4, 2017

I guess I misread.

I interpreted your post as 'owner switching the oil to mobil1 resulted in longer OCI', rather than as 'GM used Mobil1 for this vehicle and programmed the OLM to recognize the benefit of the synthetic.

Point I was trying to make for others was that the OLM is programmed for the oil recommended in the OM -- and it has no idea if the owner decides to use a higher or lower performance lubricant.

Sorry about the confusion.

Some people on here claim there’s no real difference between conventional and synthetic oils. At the same time auto manufacturers are switching to synthetic and extended, that was point with Trailblazer that I owned ten years ago. I was in the equipment business for 40 years and sold redline and Amsoil among others. We did all the testing for backup and use it in hundreds of all kinds of products. Oil debating is fun and informative the truth is more OEMs are using synthetics and going extended.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grumpy Bear · November 4, 2017

3 hours ago, Cowpie said:

What is truly bizarre is those that waste a lot of time even worrying about it.

And so many forget that the additive package makes up about 20% of any motor oil.

A "lot of commercial truckers" is a relative comment.

Three truly bizarre statements in a row. Must be a record. (Kidding---humor) Added to indicate who I respond to.

About 75% of that add package is vis improvers and pour point suppressants. Neither is contained in a polyol ester. If your going to shoot. Shoot straight. Your not talking to an AutoZone employee or an Amsoil salesman. I'm (was) a refiner.

So engine oil no, but trans and diff yes? So everywhere but the most harsh service? Interesting.

I've seen conventional oils carry gas motors over 300,000 myself. None at long interval changes however. 5,000 miles maybe, 2,500-3,000 on it's head. We don't spool up the grocery machine for a 10-12 hour highway haul 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year and in that service your records indicate, diesel not withstanding, it wouldn't be standing. Apples and Oranges please. Have a commuter example of a diesel Rabbit perhaps? I don't even need pictures for proof. I'll take your word.

Look, either way you can go as far on one as the other. No argument. Further than the machine around it will hold up actually. I can use $3-5 a quart conventional and change every 3K or I can spend a bit more on a crude synthetic and change every 7.5K or I can spend $9-10 on my esters and change every 10K. I can pay Blackstone a fee to test oil and extend. I can do allot of things. What I choose to do is use the products the have proven to ME that I can actually FEEL and MEASURE a difference.

4 quarts in the motor, 1 in the gearbox and 2 in the chain case. That's what my 2005 HD Electra uses. That's $85 in materials for an oil change. I use Red Line 10W40 and have forever. Sportster too. I do the first oil change for free on friends bikes ONLY. I tell them if they can't feel a difference in a block I'll change it again for anything they like on me. Never had a taker yet. Just say'n. I don't do a $150+ gamble on things I'm not sure of.

Cowpie · November 5, 2017

9 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Some people on here claim there’s no real difference between conventional and synthetic oils. At the same time auto manufacturers are switching to synthetic and extended, that was point with Trailblazer that I owned ten years ago. I was in the equipment business for 40 years and sold redline and Amsoil among others. We did all the testing for backup and use it in hundreds of all kinds of products. Oil debating is fun and informative the truth is more OEMs are using synthetics and going extended.

Oh there are differences. There are truly fine synthetics, conventionals, and blends. And there are some truly lame synthetics, conventionals, and blends. And while the OEM's are indeed extending drains, not all of them are calling for full synthetics to do it. Try Daimler with it's DD15 engine. 50,000 mile oil change intervals even using conventional oil.

Go onto the Petroleum Quality Institute of America and take a look at Pennzoil conventional 10w30. it puts a lot of full synthetics to shame in many ways. Very stout add pack compared to many full synthetics and a NOACK of roughly 4.1. A extremely respectable low number. So much so that PQIA retested the sample because they couldn't believe it themselves. The dexos1 standard maximum is 12. So, a conventional which is not dexos1 approved has a NOACK of 1/3 the maximum dexos1 limit. And it meets SN and GF5, which the latter addresses ethanol emulsification in the engine better than dexos1, which seems strange that GM dexos is weaker in this area given the number of E85 vehicles GM has made over the years. The one and only reason it doesn't get the dexos1 "seal of approval" is that it is a 10w30 and not a 5w30. Both are 30w oils, only the cold flow is different and only makes a substantial difference in some very cold temperatures.

This is why the 2006 Cadillac CTS we have that GM says must use Mobil 1 5w30 has only gotten this Pennz conventional 10w30, year round, in the heart of the upper Midwest. 12 years old and running strong. Will keep it for quite some time. Best value in a car I have ever experienced. And that less than $3 a quart conventional oil it gets is just icing on the cake. And I take oil changes to length of the OLM which seems to hit around 6000 miles. Normally though, I am partial to syn blends for most of my other needs.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Cowpie

Grumpy Bear · November 5, 2017

11 hours ago, Cowpie said:

There are truly fine synthetics, conventionals, and blends. And there are some truly lame synthetics, conventionals, and blends.

Don't look now Cliff but we are singing the same song. In fact in my entire ranting the point has been "watch your six".

BTW you do know that Pennzoil is part of Royal Dutch Shell, right? Which is also the Quaker label. Whack a Mole.

****************************************************************************************************

Quote from an earlier post of yours: A "lot of commercial truckers" is a relative comment. There are over 2.5 million commercial trucks in the U.S and it is doubtful that 1% of them are running full synthetic motor oils.

So "it is doubtful" carries more weight than "a lot of"? How...exactly? I'm fairly certain that Shell is indeed selling all the Rotella T6 Full Synthetic they manufacture. Is that certain enough for you?

Edited November 5, 2017 by Grumpy Bear

KARNUT · November 5, 2017

One of the big advantages we had with synthetics was in hydraulics. The equipment we built had high flo pumps and motors running our attachments. Some of our equipment we modified had small hydraulic tanks. When you had a hose failure or oring failure by time you shut down the attachment the hydraulic tank was dry so was the pump. Thousands of dollars to repair and down time. Switching to synthetic hydraulic fluid protected the pump to perform another day. It wasn’t a stretch to figure that cold start up protection in an engine would be beneficial in an engine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk