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Re-gear and Detroit Locker in a 2017 2500HD 6 Liter


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Just to add to Steve's post for clarity the G80 is a peg leg at anything over 25 mph wheel speed thanks to the governing action  of the flyweight and pawl arrangement.  The Detroit is always locked unless you are turning a corner.  Once you drive with a Detroit going back to a Gov Lock is a severe downgrade.  

Edited by SierraHD17
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Lol. Well at least I am confident about what I am posting anyway.  I might tackle the rear diff myself... I have done diffs before and the 10.5" is pretty cool with the pinion being in it's own removable housing and having screw adjusters on both carrier bearing caps to set engagement and preload.  The front doesn't look like any fun though lol.  If I had a hoist I would just do both but laying on the ground gets old so we shall see lol.  If nothing else the locker will be assembled with the crown attached and the new bearings on the carrier. 

Edited by SierraHD17
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Out of curiosity, is sourcing a used open carrier and buying the lunchbox gear locker (at normal not hero prices) still more economical than going with a true trac? I can't imagine the lunchbox route is stronger or smoother than the full trutrac carrier? Both options require bearings shims and setup time, so no advantage to either there.

I do know about road manners though. I have the trutrac in my Avalanche, and it is very transparent until you try to rush around a corner. Before, with open carrier and abs based limited slip the truck felt lazy. Now it just burns around the corner with no banging or chirping. On the other hand, I can always tell when the G80 is doing it's thing (98, 01, and 17 2500s). Contrary to popular belief, the torsen gears in the trutrac are way smoother than the G80 on low speed maneuvering where traction is limited. In fact, the Detroit in my Avalanche is smoother in a full lock turn in a black top parking lot than my Audi is, but I'm pretty sure that the Audi torsen has a bit of preload to bias torque to the rear. I've not had the opportunity to drive a vehicle with the drop in style gear locker, so I don't really know how those act.

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16 minutes ago, XSKIER said:

 I can't imagine the lunchbox route is stronger or smoother than the full trutrac carrier? Both options require bearings shims and setup time, so no advantage to either there.
 

Actually the Lunch Box requires nothing more than pulling the cover. Removing the spider pin and swapping the box for the spiders. Reinstall pin. Cover. Fluid fill. Go. No shimming gears or bears involved. It's the beauty of the device. 

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Trutracs are good in front differentials... because they act like an open unit.  They don't lock.. They can't and would defeat their primary design purpose being road racing.  I don't road race my 3/4 ton 4x4.. and the one I have on the front of my old K5 works okay because it let's you steer.

 

Detroit (owned now by Eaton) chose this design because the open carrier is plenty strong to run their internals in.  If the Trutrac guts would fit in the factory carrier I am sure they would offer it that way too.  It will operate like any detroit offered as a full carrier.. because it just has the internals used from one.  Not surprising GM did this considering the Locker i am using was a factory option in the past.  

Edited by SierraHD17
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Actually the Lunch Box requires nothing more than pulling the cover. Removing the spider pin and swapping the box for the spiders. Reinstall pin. Cover. Fluid fill. Go. No shimming gears or bears involved. It's the beauty of the device. 
G80 carrier is different than an open carrier. You can't lunchbox a G80. It's probably why the OP was proud to find an open carrier in the junkyard.

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1 minute ago, XSKIER said:

G80 carrier is different than an open carrier. You can't lunchbox a G80. It's probably why the OP was proud to find an open carrier in the junkyard.

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Yep, I get that. Speaking about the lunch box and not the G80. Thought that part was evident. 

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6 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Actually the Lunch Box requires nothing more than pulling the cover. Removing the spider pin and swapping the box for the spiders. Reinstall pin. Cover. Fluid fill. Go. No shimming gears or bears involved. It's the beauty of the device. 

 

Not in this instance actually.  No shims either considering the 10.5" has threaded screw adjusters for the carrier on both sides.  Take a look at the pic I posted of the factory carrier... it's caged like that all 360 degrees.  To get the spiders out and the Detroit pieces in you need to remove the crown gear and it will then split in half.  The two bolts you see in my pic are holding it together as the crown gear bolts normally would.  

 

No shimming to do this job... count your turns on the adjusters to remove the oem carrier.

Edited by SierraHD17
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2 minutes ago, SierraHD17 said:

 

Not in this instance actually.  No shims either considering the 10.5" has threaded screw adjusters for the carrier on both sides.  Take a look at the pic I posted of the factory carrier... it's caged like that all 360 degrees.  To get the spiders out and the Detroit pieces in you need to remove the crown gear and it will then split in half.  The two bolts you see in my pic are holding it together as the crown gear bolts normally would.  

 

No shimming to do this job... count your turns on the adjusters to remove the oem carrier.

I love learning new stuff. :thumbs: Never had a 14 bolt apart. Thanks!

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Ok, well the swimming part is not much fun on jack stands. I did the 3.73 to 4.10 swap front and rear on my AVY on jack stands. I wouldn't do it again, or recommend it to anyone. The front differential seems like it comes right out, but really sucks to get back in.

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I guess I will clarify a bit on the unit I am using being GM used this locker in trucks from the factory.  It was an option on 1 ton duallys and the military M series 1.25 ton trucks probably among other things.  It's not a typical  drop in unit like a powertrax or something like that.  These were designed around Gm's oem open carrier because it was robust enough of a unit to house the same internal workings Detroit otherwise puts in it's own carriers.  Guys use this same carrier in the old Eaton HO72 differential as well.  This diff has a very well known following in the off road world.  The 10.5" is very strong, cheap to build and easy to work on.  Its biggest downfall is you cannot get gears lower than 5.13 for it which limits things a bit unless you throw portals or something into the equation.  Pirate4x4 has a whole bible dedicated to the GM Corporate full floater 14 bolt if anyone cares to learn more.  

Edited by SierraHD17
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Actually the Lunch Box requires nothing more than pulling the cover. Removing the spider pin and swapping the box for the spiders. Reinstall pin. Cover. Fluid fill. Go. No shimming gears or bears involved. It's the beauty of the device. 
Actually, this is somewhat wrong too...after about 25k miles you will be pulling the whole rear apart to replace all the bearings, races, and the lunchbox, and will need to reshim at that point.

Ask me how I know...

Stay away from anything but full carrier replacements or the Detroit being used in this application.

Steve
2012 2500hd 6.0l

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I guess I will clarify a bit on the unit I am using being GM used this locker in trucks from the factory.  It was an option on 1 ton duallys and the military M series 1.25 ton trucks probably among other things.  It's not a typical  drop in unit like a powertrax or something like that.  These were designed around Gm's oem open carrier because it was robust enough of a unit to house the same internal workings Detroit otherwise puts in it's own carriers.  Guys use this same carrier in the old Eaton HO72 differential as well.  This diff has a very well known following in the off road world.  The 10.5" is very strong, cheap to build and easy to work on.  Its biggest downfall is you cannot get gears lower than 5.13 for it which limits things a bit unless you throw portals or something into the equation.  Pirate4x4 has a whole bible dedicated to the GM Corporate full floater 14 bolt if anyone cares to learn more.  
The Detroit you are using is considered a full on Detroit, not a lunchbox. I had a lunchbox, cost more than two Detroit in the end...

Steve
2012 2500hd 6.0l

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