Any new news on GM retiring the 6.Dinosaur ?

SS502 · November 20, 2018

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:17 PM, GMC4Zee said:

So to update, the rumor has it that the new engine is a 6.6 liter 400 Hp 450Tq with direct injection and VVT mated to a 9 speed trans. I would hope an increase in milage for this gasser. Developed by Navistar as some have mentioned

Help me understand this please. I am being serious too because I am somewhat ignorant about all these different scenarios and uses. Why would "the new engine is a 6.6 liter 400 Hp 450Tq with direct injection and VVT " be preferred over the L86 that has 6.2 liters, 420 HP and 460 TQ with Direct Injection and VVT? Please, please understand I am NOT defending or refuting ANYTHING, I am just trying to educate myself. Thank you in advance for replies that help me understand the whole thing!

Grumpy Bear · November 20, 2018

11 minutes ago, SS502 said:

Help me understand this please. I am being serious too because I am somewhat ignorant about all these different scenarios and uses. Why would "the new engine is a 6.6 liter 400 Hp 450Tq with direct injection and VVT " be preferred over the L86 that has 6.2 liters, 420 HP and 460 TQ with Direct Injection and VVT? Please, please understand I am NOT defending or refuting ANYTHING, I am just trying to educate myself. Thank you in advance for replies that help me understand the whole thing!

If you trying to make sense of a manufactures decisions don't hold your breath. GM ash canned the stone axe reliable and very frugal 3800 replacing it with something 'less'. The 3600 will be decade being refined to the level of the 3.8 IF it isn't replaced with something LESS before it gets there. They're like dogs in the woods. SQUIRREL!!

Then again some threads are started for nothing more than a good old fashion pot stirring.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Grumpy Bear

GMC4Zee · November 20, 2018

Yeah what Grumpy said, there is no rhyme or reason to why. The 6.2 is a great engine but somehow they must not think it would last in HD duty. I think it has cylinder deactivation which would not be a good thing for an HD truck plus new engine will also go in the larger commercial series trucks. I had asked a rep 2 years ago when this motor might show up in HD trucks and he skirted the question. Then i asked about the 8 speed trans and could not answer. So go figure....

C/K Man · November 20, 2018

The 6.2L has an aluminum block and is tuned for high performance in passenger cars and light trucks. The new 6.6L, much like the L96 6.0L, has an iron block and is turned for commercial service. Engines in commercial trucks spend a lot more time under load at high throttle, and are built and tested accordingly. Even though the 6.2L makes more than enough horsepower and torque for a medium duty commercial truck or large pickup, it may not be reliable in those applications.

SS502 · November 20, 2018

4 minutes ago, C/K Man said:

The 6.2L has an aluminum block and is tuned for high performance in passenger cars and light trucks. The new 6.6L, much like the L96 6.0L, has an iron block and is turned for commercial service. Engines in commercial trucks spend a lot more time under load at high throttle, and are built and tested accordingly. Even though the 6.2L makes more than enough horsepower and torque for a medium duty commercial truck or large pickup, it may not be reliable in those applications.

Thank you for that, makes much more sense to me now ?

redwngr · November 20, 2018

As C/K says, it's all about duty cycle, and making it reliable under the expected usage.

Edited November 20, 2018 by redwngr

Colossus · November 21, 2018

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

If you trying to make sense of a manufactures decisions don't hold your breath. GM ash canned the stone axe reliable and very frugal 3800 replacing it with something 'less'. The 3600 will be decade being refined to the level of the 3.8 IF it isn't replaced with something LESS before it gets there. They're like dogs in the woods. SQUIRREL!!

Then again some threads are started for nothing more than a good old fashion pot stirring.

The 3.8 was LONG overdue to be retired. The 3.6L VVT is superior in EVERY WAY POSITIVE to the 3.8L. I've owned a number of 3.8L sedans Supercharged and standard- (Buick, Pontiac, and Chevy) and have owned one 3.6L sedan (2013 Impala) and hands down the 3.6L is the engine GM should have had LONG ago.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Colossus

swathdiver · November 21, 2018

1 hour ago, Colossus said:

The 3.8 was LONG overdue to be retired. The 3.6L VVT is superior in EVERY WAY POSITIVE to the 3.8L. I've owned a number of 3.8L sedans Supercharged and standard- (Buick, Pontiac, and Chevy) and have owned one 3.6L sedan (2013 Impala) and hands down the 3.6L is the engine GM should have had LONG ago.

I think it was a huge mistake for GM to shelve the Buick 3800 for the 60 degree V6 Chevy. They were nowhere near as powerful or reliable until their final years. Granted, the 3.6 is a great engine but I reckon had the 3800 been still in production, it would have been updated accordingly too. With an '87 LeSabre, I averaged 35 mpg @ 77 mph from New York to Palm Beach. All of my Buick's got far better mileage than the 60 degree motors. GMs minivans would probably still be the leader had they kept the Buick motor and not given us the 3400. Loved my 3.9 LZ9 though for its power but like all GM engines these days, it was a high winding low torque engine compared to the Buick V6.

Grumpy Bear · November 21, 2018

2 hours ago, Colossus said:

The 3.8 was LONG overdue to be retired. The 3.6L VVT is superior in EVERY WAY POSITIVE to the 3.8L. I've owned a number of 3.8L sedans Supercharged and standard- (Buick, Pontiac, and Chevy) and have owned one 3.6L sedan (2013 Impala) and hands down the 3.6L is the engine GM should have had LONG ago.

Motor had been around in one form or another since 1962 and was the poster child for continuous thoughtful well executed refinement leading to excellence. Saying the 3.6 is superior in 'every way' is like saying that since I like vanilla, vanilla it must be the best. A classic meaningless logic trap.

Yes the 3.6 is more powerful but it is not more economical nor is it more reliable nor durable nor cleaner than the final solution 3800 Series III.

There is no legal speed limit (plus 15 mph) the 3800 can't achieve in respectable time and do it all day, everyday for as long as you care to drive her and on allot less fuel than the 3600. The 3600 is change for the sake of change and the illusions such things support.

BTW there are iron block 6.2's... (below)

9 hours ago, C/K Man said:

The 6.2L has an aluminum block and is tuned for high performance in passenger cars and light trucks. The new 6.6L, much like the L96 6.0L, has an iron block and is turned for commercial service. Engines in commercial trucks spend a lot more time under load at high throttle, and are built and tested accordingly. Even though the 6.2L makes more than enough horsepower and torque for a medium duty commercial truck or large pickup, it may not be reliable in those applications.

newdude · November 21, 2018

14 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Motor had been around in one form or another since 1962 and was the poster child for continuous thoughtful well executed refinement leading to excellence. Saying the 3.6 is superior in 'every way' is like saying that since I like vanilla, vanilla it must be the best. A classic meaningless logic trap.

Yes the 3.6 is more powerful but it is not more economical nor is it more reliable nor durable nor cleaner than the final solution 3800 Series III.

There is no legal speed limit (plus 15 mph) the 3800 can't achieve in respectable time and do it all day, everyday for as long as you care to drive her and on allot less fuel than the 3600. The 3600 is change for the sake of change and the illusions such things support.

BTW there are iron block 6.2's... (below)

The 6.2 engines (L92, L94, L9H, LS3, LS9 and LSA) are all aluminum block/head designs.

Edited November 21, 2018 by newdude

SS502 · November 22, 2018

The ones Newdude listed, yes they are but there is a cast iron 6.2L

https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/lsx-376-b15

Edited November 22, 2018 by SS502

Grumpy Bear · November 22, 2018

20 minutes ago, SS502 said:

The ones Newdude listed, yes they are but there is a cast iron 6.2L

https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/lsx-376-b15

Don't talk to hear my head whistle. Thank you. SS502

SierraHD17 · November 22, 2018

Yeah a GMPP crate engine that uses the 6 bolt head architecture called the LSX 376...not a production engine in any GM vehicle. That's like talking about GM having a 383 in the lineup... because they make a performance crate. Yes they make an iron 6.2 but it shares nothing with the production variant and is not used in any production vehicle. Good block for someone wanting some cubes or to add boost though.

Edited November 22, 2018 by SierraHD17

SS502 · November 22, 2018

3 hours ago, SierraHD17 said:

Yeah a GMPP crate engine that uses the 6 bolt head architecture called the LSX 376...not a production engine in any GM vehicle. That's like talking about GM having a 383 in the lineup... because they make a performance crate. Yes they make an iron 6.2 but it shares nothing with the production variant and is not used in any production vehicle. Good block for someone wanting some cubes or to add boost though.

Agreed, I’m sort of partial to my ZZ502 and I believe the 502 started life intended for Marine use but sits nicely in a 70 Chevelle engine bay ? I love having options ?

Edited November 22, 2018 by SS502

Colossus · November 23, 2018

Don't get me wrong, I loved the 3.8L. Yeah it had it's issues later in life with the head gaskets, like it's little brothers in the 3.4 & 3.1 and sometimes the old 2.8L, but they were good engines and would run long if you kept up on the maintenance and didn't abuse the thing. One of the funnest engines I drove was the 3.8 Supercharged in a 98 Grand Prix. Had a crappy front end, but fun engine. But I really do believe GM milked out as much as they could out of the 3.8L design. The 3.6L vvt was the next best choice to replace it and the 3.5L. Think of it like the old classic 350 5.7L block. They got as much as they could from it but tighter emissions standards meant they needed something else. Thus we had the 5.3L come into play in 99 to replace the 5.7L in the trucks. And the 5.3L proved to be just as if not more reliable and able to do more. Just like the 3.6L vs the 3.8L.