Fuel Economy For 5.3L & 6.2L With DFM Released

[Doublebase]

20 hours ago, mookdoc6 said:

GM is using the same architecture and very minimal tweeks to the Current Engine Lineup of V-8's and stuffing those into another production run for 5 years?  Wonder why?  GM has probably built the most reliable, efficient small block's on planet Earth they are basically telling you this by using again for next Full-Size BOF vehicles.  These LT's are a cut above folks they are that good..........100k miles on em is a JOKE   

Be interesting to start hearing some high mileage stories on these trucks to kind of get an idea how they're holding up. I know a few people that have them...one is doing good at 90,000 miles, no issues. One is doing great at 40,000. And one is burning through three quarts of oil every 5,000 miles (truck has 60,000). 

 

Personally I bought mine to be used more as a commuter than a truck, figured a truck would be built to withstand punishment a lot greater than what I'd put it through. I'm averaging 24-26 mpg per week (although I do seem to be using it as a truck too).

[mookdoc6]

2 hours ago, Doublebase said:

Be interesting to start hearing some high mileage stories on these trucks to kind of get an idea how they're holding up. I know a few people that have them...one is doing good at 90,000 miles, no issues. One is doing great at 40,000. And one is burning through three quarts of oil every 5,000 miles (truck has 60,000). 

 

Personally I bought mine to be used more as a commuter than a truck, figured a truck would be built to withstand punishment a lot greater than what I'd put it through. I'm averaging 24-26 mpg per week (although I do seem to be using it as a truck too).

Yeah, I just ripped 250 miles last couple days and it simply is a joy to drive.  61K on 2016 just keep yours clean with BG-Products.  The beauty of these engines is the ability to easily access and repair/replace components if need be.  Now the costs will be even cheaper with another Production run with mostly interchangeable parts.  Gotta love GM...Reliable,Interchangeable lower costs etc.  people don't realize until something breaks at 180k and then find out the part was easy to procure and relatively cheap...........I know many,many folks with higher mileage now and never put anything other than gas in their trucks....ECOTEC 3's a sweet

[Doublebase]

On 7/2/2018 at 4:39 PM, EDL said:

I know everyone's opinion varies, and trucks seem to be one subject where they vary a lot and usually involves, um, "spirited" discussions :-)

 

I look at it this way:  materials science, manufacturing processes, computer technology and all that have advanced so much in the last 30 years, and combined with the fact that pickup trucks aren't something humans have just recently invented, I fully expect my new truck with a nearly   $60,000 price tag   to be flawless in every respect.  Squeaks, vibrations, rumbling, shaking, odd transmission behaviors and all that should not be happening.  I do accept that the occasional lemon makes it out the door as these are complex machines and nothing is perfect.

 

Aside from that, I still wonder why 100,000 miles is the "magic" number, both in terms of when things start to go bad and trade-in values plummet.   You'd think with all the technology and science and newer super metals and such that vehicles would routinely go, say 200,000 without major mechanical issues, but nope, 100,000 miles has been the magic number for the last, what?  30 to 35 years or better?

 

I'll also add to that the short cuts design engineers use today.  I recall when a wheel bearing went bad, you went to the parts store and plopped down $50 or so for a set of bearings, came home and swapped them out.  Today, you just replace the entire freakin hub assembly at $500 or better each.  Why?  It's cheaper and easier for the manufacturer to make them that way and you, as the consumer, get the pleasure of paying for it.   But, those outrageous parts prices only further fuel my opinion that things should last longer.

 

 

 

 

Just my opinion here...

 

I think what you said there...the expectations of a $60,000 dollar vehicle, really is what drives a lot of negativity on forums. And I'm not saying you - or anyone - shouldn't complain. It's just that the price has risen expectations to levels that are maybe not realistic. When you got out and drop $60,000 you expect perfection, and realistically it's still just a GM truck...high priced or not, it's not going to give you perfection (no car will). It's the nature of the beast...pay outrageous price...expect it to be prefect. Not going to happen.

 

I think after that intitial "sticker shock" period ends, you settle into phase two of truck ownership. You've been back to the dealer maybe a few times, they fixed a few little things. You're expectations drop a little bit. It's no longer brand new and you can maybe enjoy it a little more because your expectations have lowered, yet it's now kind of evening out....it's actually starting to perform at a high level and you start realizing...hey this thing is pretty reliable. 

 

Then phase three kicks in (100,000 - 130,000 miles). This is where some wear starts to become noticeable (also the point in used car markets where value decreases, as you mentioned). Rubber suspension components start to wear, it all of the sudden doesn't  quite feel as tight. Some noise develops here or there - some people hear it and fix it, others ignore it and let it get worse. Then maybe the engine starts using a little oil. And all the sudden you realize that you need to do a coolant service, tranny service, rear end services...some people do it, some people ignore it. It's why the 100,000 mile mark is a milestone that can hurt value (because a lot of owners neglect their vehicles, and buyers are stuck with those problems). At 70,000?? You haven't quite reached those "problems" yet. At 100-120k? You're hitting them.

 

Phase four (150,000 miles and up). They'll be some "wear" here. You're going to have it, it's part of ownership. I find people that hold onto their vehicles this long, and kind of take it the distance, really "know" their vehicle...they know it uses oil (and they keep on top of it), they know their control arm bushings are shot (and they will be replacing them). They know all their rattles and shakes. They've ventured heavily into the aftermarket car part industry. They've replaced things more than once. The truck is rusted, they've tried to fix it, they've failed, now they don't care. It's at 250,000 miles now...there hasn't been a car payment in years. You've long forgotten that this thing was a $60,000 dollar truck, it's now a $2,500 Craigslist's Dream for some kid who is going to put a lift kit and tires on it. Maybe that's where it goes - because now you're real sick of driving it - and you haven't had a truck payment in three years. You're ready. You drop another $80,000 (inflation) on a new truck and reminisce how your last one was so much better than this new one. Haha. They all end up in the junk yard anyway. All of them.

[KARNUT]

My son was on his second Denali in 3 years. The 15 started cutting out, they couldn’t fix it. So he bought a 17, started having problems. He showed up at my house with a Maserati Ghibli S. WOW. Leased for less than a Denali. Still don’t understand why people drive trucks daily if the ain’t hauling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[amxguy1970]

2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

My son was on his second Denali in 3 years. The 15 started cutting out, they couldn’t fix it. So he bought a 17, started having problems. He showed up at my house with a Maserati Ghibli S. WOW. Leased for less than a Denali. Still don’t understand why people drive trucks daily if the ain’t hauling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This...

 

I have no idea why guys buy a big honking 4wd truck and never use it for a DD other than the image they think it allows them to portray (which is just a front everyone can see through). I am a car guy, trucks aren't enjoyable to drive. If it weren't for needing and using a truck I wouldn't be DD'ing one. They aren't enjoyable to drive, they are bad in comparison to most other vehicles in terms of on road driving and comfort and give up so much every day. They excel at two things being a DD. Visibility over other vehicles and in most cases room (especially mine with the split bench, I can man spread for days).

 

I can't wait to get another fun car to split time with this and break up how boring it is to drive. If I had plenty of money I would have this truck as a tow/haul/back country and hunting vehicle and DD a luxury sports sedan and have a toy car for track days. After having a new Volvo S90 as a rental recently it seriously made me consider jumping ship as it was soooo nice but it would just cause too much heartache all the times we use it.

 

I can only imagine how awesome the Ghibli is to drive, heard some great reviews on it (though if he was concerned about the Denali reliability he may be in for a shock with this). Have you taken the keys from him for a spin yet?

 

Tyler

[KARNUT]

This...
 
I have no idea why guys buy a big honking 4wd truck and never use it for a DD other than the image they think it allows them to portray (which is just a front everyone can see through). I am a car guy, trucks aren't enjoyable to drive. If it weren't for needing and using a truck I wouldn't be DD'ing one. They aren't enjoyable to drive, they are bad in comparison to most other vehicles in terms of on road driving and comfort and give up so much every day. They excel at two things being a DD. Visibility over other vehicles and in most cases room (especially mine with the split bench, I can man spread for days).
 
I can't wait to get another fun car to split time with this and break up how boring it is to drive. If I had plenty of money I would have this truck as a tow/haul/back country and hunting vehicle and DD a luxury sports sedan and have a toy car for track days. After having a new Volvo S90 as a rental recently it seriously made me consider jumping ship as it was soooo nice but it would just cause too much heartache all the times we use it.
 
I can only imagine how awesome the Ghibli is to drive, heard some great reviews on it (though if he was concerned about the Denali reliability he may be in for a shock with this). Have you taken the keys from him for a spin yet?
 
Tyler

He knows I’m a car guy, of course he does he’s my son. He used to hear me bitch about how slow and painful those early diesels were and gas. They are better now, at least. He grew up riding in performance cars, some I built some we bought. His mother drove those. Back when he was growing up I worked 7 days a week growing the family business. The first place he went to was to my house for dad to put it through the test. The other thing he learned from dad, you don’t buy an exotic, you lease it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EDL]

8 hours ago, Doublebase said:

Just my opinion here...

 

I think what you said there...the expectations of a $60,000 dollar vehicle, really is what drives a lot of negativity on forums. And I'm not saying you - or anyone - shouldn't complain. It's just that the price has risen expectations to levels that are maybe not realistic. When you got out and drop $60,000 you expect perfection, and realistically it's still just a GM truck...high priced or not, it's not going to give you perfection (no car will). It's the nature of the beast...pay outrageous price...expect it to be prefect. Not going to happen.

 

I think after that intitial "sticker shock" period ends, you settle into phase two of truck ownership. You've been back to the dealer maybe a few times, they fixed a few little things. You're expectations drop a little bit. It's no longer brand new and you can maybe enjoy it a little more because your expectations have lowered, yet it's now kind of evening out....it's actually starting to perform at a high level and you start realizing...hey this thing is pretty reliable. 

 

Then phase three kicks in (100,000 - 130,000 miles). This is where some wear starts to become noticeable (also the point in used car markets where value decreases, as you mentioned). Rubber suspension components start to wear, it all of the sudden doesn't  quite feel as tight. Some noise develops here or there - some people hear it and fix it, others ignore it and let it get worse. Then maybe the engine starts using a little oil. And all the sudden you realize that you need to do a coolant service, tranny service, rear end services...some people do it, some people ignore it. It's why the 100,000 mile mark is a milestone that can hurt value (because a lot of owners neglect their vehicles, and buyers are stuck with those problems). At 70,000?? You haven't quite reached those "problems" yet. At 100-120k? You're hitting them.

 

Phase four (150,000 miles and up). They'll be some "wear" here. You're going to have it, it's part of ownership. I find people that hold onto their vehicles this long, and kind of take it the distance, really "know" their vehicle...they know it uses oil (and they keep on top of it), they know their control arm bushings are shot (and they will be replacing them). They know all their rattles and shakes. They've ventured heavily into the aftermarket car part industry. They've replaced things more than once. The truck is rusted, they've tried to fix it, they've failed, now they don't care. It's at 250,000 miles now...there hasn't been a car payment in years. You've long forgotten that this thing was a $60,000 dollar truck, it's now a $2,500 Craigslist's Dream for some kid who is going to put a lift kit and tires on it. Maybe that's where it goes - because now you're real sick of driving it - and you haven't had a truck payment in three years. You're ready. You drop another $80,000 (inflation) on a new truck and reminisce how your last one was so much better than this new one. Haha. They all end up in the junk yard anyway. All of them.

That's cool man, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just happen to disagree to some extent.  I don't expect "perfection", as nothing is perfect, but put aside all the electronic gizmos and the AFM/DFM and all the cam shaft and VVT wizardry to help mileage and EPA and all that.  Transmissions aren't new inventions, drive shafts and CV's aren't new inventions, tires and wheels aren't new inventions.

 

I fully expect things to wear out, it's inevitable, but my point concerns the "advances" industry has made over the years.  I do expect things to not be as tight at 80,000 as they were new, I fully expect I will maintain my truck as needed, but that's not really my point either.

 

A brand new $60,000 truck should not vibrate and shudder when cruising down the highway.   If all trucks have done that since they were invented, I would have no point, but they don't, or at least many don't in this day and age.  I don't expect car smoothness on bumps and such, but cruising on a flat decent road, it shouldn't feel like something is out of balance somewhere. 

 

I actually don't mind having to go back to the dealer for things like a key fob that won't program (which my fob 1 doesn't), or the nav isn't working right and so on, but brand new, no one should be taking it in because it rumbles and vibrates at normal speeds, that's just unacceptable.  That's not an electronic gizmo or doo-dad fiddly thing that isn't working right, that's the basics of the vehicle, the drive train and wheels/tires. 

 

I've had a lot of trucks in my life and I have had 1 or 2 that had vibration issues that ended up being wheels or tires, and 1 that had a drive shaft issue (and come to think of it, it too was a Chevy, but I'm not trying to bash Chevy because of that).  Nope, wasn't any happier then than I would be now.  Most were very good right off the lot (Chevy, Dodge and Ford) and even some older used ones were plenty good drivers.  If a u-joint goes bad several thousand miles down the road, ok, that's one thing, but not brand new right off the lot. 

[mookdoc6]

15 hours ago, Doublebase said:

Just my opinion here...

 

I think what you said there...the expectations of a $60,000 dollar vehicle, really is what drives a lot of negativity on forums. And I'm not saying you - or anyone - shouldn't complain. It's just that the price has risen expectations to levels that are maybe not realistic. When you got out and drop $60,000 you expect perfection, and realistically it's still just a GM truck...high priced or not, it's not going to give you perfection (no car will). It's the nature of the beast...pay outrageous price...expect it to be prefect. Not going to happen.

 

I think after that intitial "sticker shock" period ends, you settle into phase two of truck ownership. You've been back to the dealer maybe a few times, they fixed a few little things. You're expectations drop a little bit. It's no longer brand new and you can maybe enjoy it a little more because your expectations have lowered, yet it's now kind of evening out....it's actually starting to perform at a high level and you start realizing...hey this thing is pretty reliable. 

 

Then phase three kicks in (100,000 - 130,000 miles). This is where some wear starts to become noticeable (also the point in used car markets where value decreases, as you mentioned). Rubber suspension components start to wear, it all of the sudden doesn't  quite feel as tight. Some noise develops here or there - some people hear it and fix it, others ignore it and let it get worse. Then maybe the engine starts using a little oil. And all the sudden you realize that you need to do a coolant service, tranny service, rear end services...some people do it, some people ignore it. It's why the 100,000 mile mark is a milestone that can hurt value (because a lot of owners neglect their vehicles, and buyers are stuck with those problems). At 70,000?? You haven't quite reached those "problems" yet. At 100-120k? You're hitting them.

 

Phase four (150,000 miles and up). They'll be some "wear" here. You're going to have it, it's part of ownership. I find people that hold onto their vehicles this long, and kind of take it the distance, really "know" their vehicle...they know it uses oil (and they keep on top of it), they know their control arm bushings are shot (and they will be replacing them). They know all their rattles and shakes. They've ventured heavily into the aftermarket car part industry. They've replaced things more than once. The truck is rusted, they've tried to fix it, they've failed, now they don't care. It's at 250,000 miles now...there hasn't been a car payment in years. You've long forgotten that this thing was a $60,000 dollar truck, it's now a $2,500 Craigslist's Dream for some kid who is going to put a lift kit and tires on it. Maybe that's where it goes - because now you're real sick of driving it - and you haven't had a truck payment in three years. You're ready. You drop another $80,000 (inflation) on a new truck and reminisce how your last one was so much better than this new one. Haha. They all end up in the junk yard anyway. All of them.

Pretty close, except the end.  Reality is they get auctioned off for extremely cheap many head over the boarder and this is where many Americans loose out.  If you took the vehicle to that distance and were done with it you be shocked to know that they keep going for another 5-10years in much worse shape south of the boarder with little to no money thrown into it.  So what seems like a falling apart, deteriorating hunk of junk in reality has couple hundred thousand more on her........

[Doublebase]

13 hours ago, EDL said:

That's cool man, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just happen to disagree to some extent.  I don't expect "perfection", as nothing is perfect, but put aside all the electronic gizmos and the AFM/DFM and all the cam shaft and VVT wizardry to help mileage and EPA and all that.  Transmissions aren't new inventions, drive shafts and CV's aren't new inventions, tires and wheels aren't new inventions.

 

I fully expect things to wear out, it's inevitable, but my point concerns the "advances" industry has made over the years.  I do expect things to not be as tight at 80,000 as they were new, I fully expect I will maintain my truck as needed, but that's not really my point either.

 

A brand new $60,000 truck should not vibrate and shudder when cruising down the highway.   If all trucks have done that since they were invented, I would have no point, but they don't, or at least many don't in this day and age.  I don't expect car smoothness on bumps and such, but cruising on a flat decent road, it shouldn't feel like something is out of balance somewhere. 

 

I actually don't mind having to go back to the dealer for things like a key fob that won't program (which my fob 1 doesn't), or the nav isn't working right and so on, but brand new, no one should be taking it in because it rumbles and vibrates at normal speeds, that's just unacceptable.  That's not an electronic gizmo or doo-dad fiddly thing that isn't working right, that's the basics of the vehicle, the drive train and wheels/tires. 

 

I've had a lot of trucks in my life and I have had 1 or 2 that had vibration issues that ended up being wheels or tires, and 1 that had a drive shaft issue (and come to think of it, it too was a Chevy, but I'm not trying to bash Chevy because of that).  Nope, wasn't any happier then than I would be now.  Most were very good right off the lot (Chevy, Dodge and Ford) and even some older used ones were plenty good drivers.  If a u-joint goes bad several thousand miles down the road, ok, that's one thing, but not brand new right off the lot. 

Ok yeah you're situation is a little different. Honestly if it's as bad as you say, and I'm sure it is, I'd get rid of the thing ASAP. You know if it's that bad new?? It'll only get worse unfortunately. You shouldn't be experiencing that type of stuff on any new vehicle, much less a $60,000 dollar one.

 

I was more talking about things like...

a loose glove box

the thing stalled twice in six months and no one knows why

a speaker blow out

surface rust on the frame

used half a quart of oil in your last oil change interval

one check engine light in three years

arm rest material wearing away after 50,000 miles

a weird squeaking noise coming from somewhere when it's cold

tranny shifts funny sometimes

 

Those types of things, not the thing driving like a cement mixer right off the lot. That sucks.

 

[Doublebase]

6 hours ago, mookdoc6 said:

Pretty close, except the end.  Reality is they get auctioned off for extremely cheap many head over the boarder and this is where many Americans loose out.  If you took the vehicle to that distance and were done with it you be shocked to know that they keep going for another 5-10years in much worse shape south of the boarder with little to no money thrown into it.  So what seems like a falling apart, deteriorating hunk of junk in reality has couple hundred thousand more on her........

Didn't realize that, I know some vehicles are shipped down there, etc, but I figured most end up in the junk yard, parted out or used as scrap.

 

I can understand why they'd last 5-10 more years down there though....warm weather and less strict yearly inspections. I don't know what the typical yearly inspection regulations are in Mexico, or the Dominican, but I imagine it's not much. Around here a hole in the frame is a safety failure, perhaps there it's not. And you'll fail for a check engine light here, there you probably won't. So a 15 year old vehicle with 300,000 miles on it isn't worth fixing around here, but down there it may be solid gold. Pretty cool to think there's chevy's with 500,000 miles on them rolling around down there.

[Chevyguy85]

22 hours ago, KARNUT said:

My son was on his second Denali in 3 years. The 15 started cutting out, they couldn’t fix it. So he bought a 17, started having problems. He showed up at my house with a Maserati Ghibli S. WOW. Leased for less than a Denali. Still don’t understand why people drive trucks daily if the ain’t hauling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

20 hours ago, amxguy1970 said:

This...

 

I have no idea why guys buy a big honking 4wd truck and never use it for a DD other than the image they think it allows them to portray (which is just a front everyone can see through). I am a car guy, trucks aren't enjoyable to drive. If it weren't for needing and using a truck I wouldn't be DD'ing one. They aren't enjoyable to drive, they are bad in comparison to most other vehicles in terms of on road driving and comfort and give up so much every day. They excel at two things being a DD. Visibility over other vehicles and in most cases room (especially mine with the split bench, I can man spread for days).

 

I can't wait to get another fun car to split time with this and break up how boring it is to drive. If I had plenty of money I would have this truck as a tow/haul/back country and hunting vehicle and DD a luxury sports sedan and have a toy car for track days. After having a new Volvo S90 as a rental recently it seriously made me consider jumping ship as it was soooo nice but it would just cause too much heartache all the times we use it.

 

I can only imagine how awesome the Ghibli is to drive, heard some great reviews on it (though if he was concerned about the Denali reliability he may be in for a shock with this). Have you taken the keys from him for a spin yet?

 

Tyler

 

Maybe because they grew up in a truck family.  Or they like the visibility as stated, it's saved me from quite a few accidents.  Maybe I don't see the point in cars, or having 2 vehicles when I have zero desire to "go fast" when the roads are too full of idiots in a hurry to go no where while paying more attention to everything but driving.  Or the safety in having 8-10+ foot of metal between you and the previously stated idiot when he runs into your butt doing 40 mph. 

 

I'll be the first to admit DD'n a dually is overkill and stupid, but I enjoy driving it, and will probably replace it with another dually.  I couldn't give two sh*ts what people think of or about me because of what I drive, or any other reason for that matter.  Cars aren't enjoyable for me to drive at all.  It's great to have a choice and live in a place where we can all have opinions and disagree on anything and everything.

[KARNUT]

 
Maybe because they grew up in a truck family.  Or they like the visibility as stated, it's saved me from quite a few accidents.  Maybe I don't see the point in cars, or having 2 vehicles when I have zero desire to "go fast" when the roads are too full of idiots in a hurry to go no where while paying more attention to everything but driving.  Or the safety in having 8-10+ foot of metal between you and the previously stated idiot when he runs into your butt doing 40 mph. 
 
I'll be the first to admit DD'n a dually is overkill and stupid, but I enjoy driving it, and will probably replace it with another dually.  I couldn't give two sh*ts what people think of or about me because of what I drive, or any other reason for that matter.  Cars aren't enjoyable for me to drive at all.  It's great to have a choice and live in a place where we can all have opinions and disagree on anything and everything.

I had all kinds of trucks, usually 3 or 4 at the same time for different (jobs) probably put 2 million miles hauling, pulling etc. Probably only driven cars couple 100K miles. If given a choice for long distance driving, stoping distance, performance, accident avoidance a car for me wins. Let’s see a Chevy SS or Denali, dollar for dollar SS for me. I don’t give two $hits what you drive either. The money I save and the fun factor of driving a car versus a dually if I’m just driving. Makes that dinner I bought with the money I saved on fuel taste a whole lot better at the end of the day. Glad for choices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PhantomSierra16]

Just my two cents....wait at least 2 more years or for a mid year refresh before you buy this generation, the diesel has yet to come out, kinks yet to be fixed, more special trim models released, and well another sheet metal redesign in the future.

[WilliamBos]

On 2018-06-29 at 11:29 AM, MaverickZ71 said:

Gee, yet another, even more complicated, Active Fuel Management-type system to cause no end of mechanical problems.  And it doesn't even get any better fuel mileage than the outgoing system?  EPIC FAIL, GM!  

 

PS  Those of us GMT-900 owners who had to turn off AFM didn't notice any significant fuel mileage drop, either.  

A huge waste of money for zero return?

 

They need to look at running a dual injected 5.3 without afm/dfm, bets no loss in mpg.

[Roscopcoletrain]

if the trucks are lighter and more arrow dynamic but mpg is the same, wouldnt that sorta mean the new trucks are less efficient? 

 

Also, I'd much rather drive a truck vs a car. Has nothing to do with status or looks or whatever. Has to do with comfort and seating. I just find it a lot more comfortable, usable, etc.