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2019's have the same crappy frame wax?


cbrsilv15

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On 9/17/2018 at 10:53 AM, mookdoc6 said:

just went and looked at some FERD'S in parking lot?  Coating has flaked off in numerous areas of frame?  No salt conditions here.......Pick your poison I guess?

Yeah the E-coating they use isn't great. The coating is thinner than a human hair and scuffs up pretty easy. I've seen a lot of 2015/16 F-150 frames with rust on all the welds, all the sharp edges where holes were punched in the frame rails, etc. Not much of an improvement. I'm not sold on paint being better. After all, the Tacoma and Tundra used painted frames and those are legendary for how fast and aggressive the rust was.

 

I would honestly pay a premium to get a truck with a frame that's epoxy coated. Something like POR-15. That stuff outlasts most other coatings. If only GM would offer such an option...

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37 minutes ago, HondaHawkGT said:

Yeah the E-coating they use isn't great. The coating is thinner than a human hair and scuffs up pretty easy. I've seen a lot of 2015/16 F-150 frames with rust on all the welds, all the sharp edges where holes were punched in the frame rails, etc. Not much of an improvement. I'm not sold on paint being better. After all, the Tacoma and Tundra used painted frames and those are legendary for how fast and aggressive the rust was.

 

I would honestly pay a premium to get a truck with a frame that's epoxy coated. Something like POR-15. That stuff outlasts most other coatings. If only GM would offer such an option...

Yup, I never really analyzed the coatings but peeked under a few FERD's and chuckled because that coating is extremely thin and flaked off up and down the rails.....Looked a Tundra parked next to it 2016 and that coating was far superior.........Powder coat would be great but you still need the CED coating first for best possible outcome....My NOXed GM stuff has never failed me so somebody knows why GM is still using it other than the MONEY reason..... 

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7 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

Yeah the E-coating they use isn't great. The coating is thinner than a human hair and scuffs up pretty easy. I've seen a lot of 2015/16 F-150 frames with rust on all the welds, all the sharp edges where holes were punched in the frame rails, etc. Not much of an improvement. I'm not sold on paint being better. After all, the Tacoma and Tundra used painted frames and those are legendary for how fast and aggressive the rust was.

 

I would honestly pay a premium to get a truck with a frame that's epoxy coated. Something like POR-15. That stuff outlasts most other coatings. If only GM would offer such an option...

I was just thinking that Toyota has replaced more frames than any other manufacture and they only have about 2% of the market.  Whatever they do is not what I want.  

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13 hours ago, shift_grind said:

 

 

The new stuff lasts SOOOOO much longer than it used to.  

Maybe if you have only been on this earth for the last 20 years or so ago. Nothing is made to last anymore, fact. My big trucks, my heavy equipment, vehicles. All wires, cheap computer modules that fail or need updates and thin steel. Nothing manufactured today will easily last 25 years without proper maintenance, which again, you can't maintain these frames properly. I'm not young anymore, it is going to be a difficult task to tell me a 2003 Chevy 4x4 will outlast a 1973 Chevy 4x4, because it wont plain and simple. 

Edited by L86 All Terrain
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1 hour ago, L86 All Terrain said:

Maybe if you have only been on this earth for the last 20 years or so ago. Nothing is made to last anymore, fact. My big trucks, my heavy equipment, vehicles. All wires, cheap computer modules that fail or need updates and thin steel. Nothing manufactured today will easily last 25 years without proper maintenance, which again, you can't maintain these frames properly. I'm not young anymore, it is going to be a difficult task to tell me a 2003 Chevy 4x4 will outlast a 1973 Chevy 4x4, because it wont plain and simple. 

There was a time when your truck hit 100k and it was thought you got your money's worth.  My 2000 Tahoe is about 204k, runs fine and has had no major repairs.  I replaced the shocks a year ago due to age and it hardly rides any different.   Lots of 2-300k gmt 400s and 800s.  I do agree the 900s sucked though.  

 

Old vehicles were sloppy and loose and required even their incredibly simple suspension and steering to be re done far before 100k.

 

I've only been around since the early 80s and while the old stuff looked cool it isn't as reliable.  

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39 minutes ago, shift_grind said:

There was a time when your truck hit 100k and it was thought you got your money's worth.  My 2000 Tahoe is about 204k, runs fine and has had no major repairs.  I replaced the shocks a year ago due to age and it hardly rides any different.   Lots of 2-300k gmt 400s and 800s.  I do agree the 900s sucked though.  

 

Old vehicles were sloppy and loose and required even their incredibly simple suspension and steering to be re done far before 100k.

 

I've only been around since the early 80s and while the old stuff looked cool it isn't as reliable.  

The GMT800 Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche and many Silverado 1500s with the bulletproof 5.3 last a while.

A guy I work with has a 2003 5.3 Vortec Suburban that just turned over 255,000 Miles.

Other than normal maintenance and a tranny rebuild at 120K it has been trouble free other than some rust and mild piston slap on cold start.

 

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15 minutes ago, shift_grind said:

There was a time when your truck hit 100k and it was thought you got your money's worth.  My 2000 Tahoe is about 204k, runs fine and has had no major repairs.  I replaced the shocks a year ago due to age and it hardly rides any different.   Lots of 2-300k gmt 400s and 800s.  I do agree the 900s sucked though.  

 

Old vehicles were sloppy and loose and required even their incredibly simple suspension and steering to be re done far before 100k.

 

I've only been around since the early 80s and while the old stuff looked cool it isn't as reliable.  

Your statement is about perception and it is correct for that time period. The reality however was there would be as many motors doing 300 K PLUS then as now IF they got the routine maintenance they required. My uncles, bought new, 1936 Ford "C" cab has over a million miles on it and has had one freshening of the valve gear and a gasket set. Peoples perceptions have changed. Ford "Y" blocks and FE motors are stone axe reliable in multiples of 100K. The "Y" motors did require an external oil pipe to feed the rockers installed to accomplish this. Not because the design was flawed but because then, like now, you can't beat the idea into anyone that oil/filter needs changing. Those that were religious about it, my father, myself and my brothers and uncles, didn't have any issues. Ford Top Loaders, C4 and C6 gear boxes and the Ford 9" will last forever well cared for. They shift correctly too. I'd love to have a new one with todays lubricants. 

 

Suspension is as it has always been. Keep it aligned and miss the craters in the road and don't stray too far from factory sizes and specs on replacement parts and you have no issues with it. I don't have to read about this, I lived it. 

 

All manufactures went though a period where they couldn't keep a body in tact for 3 years. Vega ring a bell? Datsun perhaps? They got run out on a rail then FIXED the issue and came back with a vengeance. The Asian built cars were then 20 year bodies after that (for a decade or so) and the Big Three and a half here were forced to step up their game. The cycle is now repeating itself for about the 4th time in 120 years. Every manufacture rots out at the seam between rear fender and poly bumper and down the dog leg. It's a five minute fix in your driveway if you do it the day you bring it home. But they wont because they have been assured by our behavior that this simple task will not get done and they continue to profit from our laziness. 

 

My kids are older than you. So is a pair of Wingtips in my closet I wear every week. :seeya:

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Tell them Grumpy!  Damn Millennials...  lol

 

As for the numbers...  80% of the people reading this post right now won't keep their truck longer than 5 years.  Something to think about before we complain about overall longevity , crappy frame wax, etc.   Trust me... most of you will trade in long before it ever becomes an issue.  

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4 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Your statement is about perception and it is correct for that time period. The reality however was there would be as many motors doing 300 K PLUS then as now IF they got the routine maintenance they required. My uncles, bought new, 1936 Ford "C" cab has over a million miles on it and has had one freshening of the valve gear and a gasket set. Peoples perceptions have changed. Ford "Y" blocks and FE motors are stone axe reliable in multiples of 100K. The "Y" motors did require an external oil pipe to feed the rockers installed to accomplish this. Not because the design was flawed but because then, like now, you can't beat the idea into anyone that oil/filter needs changing. Those that were religious about it, my father, myself and my brothers and uncles, didn't have any issues. Ford Top Loaders, C4 and C6 gear boxes and the Ford 9" will last forever well cared for. They shift correctly too. I'd love to have a new one with todays lubricants. 

 

Suspension is as it has always been. Keep it aligned and miss the craters in the road and don't stray too far from factory sizes and specs on replacement parts and you have no issues with it. I don't have to read about this, I lived it. 

 

All manufactures went though a period where they couldn't keep a body in tact for 3 years. Vega ring a bell? Datsun perhaps? They got run out on a rail then FIXED the issue and came back with a vengeance. The Asian built cars were then 20 year bodies after that (for a decade or so) and the Big Three and a half here were forced to step up their game. The cycle is now repeating itself for about the 4th time in 120 years. Every manufacture rots out at the seam between rear fender and poly bumper and down the dog leg. It's a five minute fix in your driveway if you do it the day you bring it home. But they wont because they have been assured by our behavior that this simple task will not get done and they continue to profit from our laziness. 

 

My kids are older than you. So is a pair of Wingtips in my closet I wear every week. :seeya:

You're not the first or last old timer that spouts how much better things used to be. You did have to walk to school 3 miles through the snow afterall. To make it worse, it was uphill BOTH WAYS!  

 

Your anecdotal information does little to convince me.  Yeah, they over built things back as they didn't have a real good understanding of what needed to be there - just more = more stronger!!  Eventually they figured out they don't need a 30 lb control arm, if they build it correctly they can do it with 15 and it will be stronger.  Thank goodness for those magical computer boxes.  

 

All goofing around aside, we are not going to convince each other of anything.  But do you find it odd, flat tires and out if gas situations aside we see far fewer cars broke down on the side of the road?  I think we've learned a few things over the years ;)

 

Miss the old muscle car days too?  When Detroit made real cars?  All those tire smoking lopey cam beasts...that ran high 14s on a good day.  You can get that from a minivan now, that gets 2x the mileage.  The old days were better in memory than reality.  

Edited by shift_grind
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7 hours ago, shift_grind said:

You're not the first or last old timer that spouts how much better things used to be. You did have to walk to school 3 miles through the snow afterall. To make it worse, it was uphill BOTH WAYS!  

 

Your anecdotal information does little to convince me.  Yeah, they over built things back as they didn't have a real good understanding of what needed to be there - just more = more stronger!!  Eventually they figured out they don't need a 30 lb control arm, if they build it correctly they can do it with 15 and it will be stronger.  Thank goodness for those magical computer boxes.  

 

All goofing around aside, we are not going to convince each other of anything.  But do you find it odd, flat tires and out if gas situations aside we see far fewer cars broke down on the side of the road?  I think we've learned a few things over the years ;)

 

Miss the old muscle car days too?  When Detroit made real cars?  All those tire smoking lopey cam beasts...that ran high 14s on a good day.  You can get that from a minivan now, that gets 2x the mileage.  The old days were better in memory than reality.  

Odd: you speak about a time before you were born like you were there. Funny stuff that. 

 

Anecdotal evidence. Hummmm. Let me think about that a minute...………………….minutes up. 

 

Evidence is something offered in proof when it matters to you that you convince SOMEONE ELSE. See here's the thing troll with no name. It doesn't matter to me one iota if you believe my experiences or not. Why? Because you don't spend my wallet....I do. I don't suffer the consequences of your ignorance; you do;  I for one won't follow you down that rabbit hole.

 

I'll bet you taught yourself to read and write. Discovered mathematics and physics too. You are so important and so smart you used nothing of what came before you....  Let me ask you. Did you demand your teachers offer proofs of their knowledge to teach? Or did you follow like a Lemming.  

 

That technology you speak about that benefits us all is something people MUCH older than you built and built it upon the foundations of those ancient in your eyes. What exactly is your contribution? Don't remember seeing your name on the covers of any of my engineering classes text books.

 

Grasshopper you knowledge is a mile wide indeed, and yet only an inch deep. 

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