TRIAX SRT 0W30, 5W30 DEXOS 1 Gen 2

diyer2 · July 5, 2021

Thanks Grumpy for taking the time to check this out and reply.

Amsoil OE might be my next oil. I have looked at the Redline HD also. A bit pricey to me. I still have a hard time going over 3 k mile OCI's. Old habits are hard to break when they have worked very well.

So for Redline HD I would have to do at least 7500 OCI's to off set the cost. I don't know if I want to do that.

I believe you were doing 5 K mile OCI's using Redline HD in Pepper.

Thanks again.

Grumpy Bear · July 5, 2021

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

Thanks Grumpy for taking the time to check this out and reply.

Amsoil OE might be my next oil. I have looked at the Redline HD also. A bit pricey to me. I still have a hard time going over 3 k mile OCI's. Old habits are hard to break when they have worked very well.

So for Redline HD I would have to do at least 7500 OCI's to off set the cost. I don't know if I want to do that.

I believe you were doing 5 K mile OCI's using Redline HD in Pepper.

Thanks again.

Thing is every time I trust the oil or automakers industry scuttle butt I get bit. And not once have they ever said, "My bad, here let me fix that for you". We had a 92 Toyota the rings gave up on in under 100K going by that goofy OLM. The only motors I take past 5K are older less complicated motors made in Japan.

The current 2.4 started using a half quart per 5K at 90,000. Identical to the Toyota. By 115K the PCV orifice 'coked' closed, rings collapsed and we had the top apart for a mechanical cleaning using a quart in 2.7K. Also did a GM ring soak per TSB. Getting the PCV working again improved that to a quart in 3.6K. We did a B&G EPR flush. This gets it back to a quart in 5K. Livable but we get brave and she starts driving like she always has and I reach for 5K OCI's again. At 123,918 miles it gulps down a quart in 600 miles!! We do another GM top end soak. I dial it back to 2.5K per oil change and switch to Kirkland 5W30 to the tune of a quart in 6.5K and it continues to improve to a peak of a quart in 14,363 miles. Then at 140K it used 8 ounces in 2,500 miles. She's back to her old habits.

1,800 miles later I start the TRIAX S7 treatment. At 2,415 miles as of last nights fuel stop she's still full. Actually over full riding the top of the bullet. I should not have added the extra 3 ounces during the blend. I guessed and guessed wrong. I've been doing the driving and running the speed limit on every road but Interstate and 62-65 there. 7-10 faster than usual for me, 10 slower than her. Way to early to say anything about oil economy but the fuel economy has taken a sharp turn upward and will pull 30 mpg at 62 MPH steady which is 5 mpg higher that a few tanks ago.

Getting the carbon out has been a struggle lasting 50K miles and this is the best so far...and once again I'm hopeful. The pattern repeats.

Looking back on Dizzy's records I see we were making nice progress using Red Line HP but I quit thinking $10 a quart was kind of steep for an oil pausing for a few hundred miles in the system. Yea...I've made a couple of bad decisions along the way. Getting off products I should have kept and getting brave with OCI when I should have remained more conservative. However in all of this we have seen repeated patterns that OCI and detergent levels are key.

So yes, I change Red Line HP at 5K in Ecotec3 motors.

diyer2 · July 5, 2021

My theory on OCI's.

I do visual checks. Pull the oil dip stick and look at color. Usually by 3 k miles it's dark. Tells me it's got quite a bit of carbon and other junk in the oil. Running it longer allows the junk to be deposited on the inside of the motor IMO. Oil changes can be cheap and are easy.

I have used a lot of different oil brands over the years in a variety of vehicles. All were dark by 3 K miles.

As I said tough to change a system that has worked for over 50 years. Yea I get the oils and filters are better today. Plus an oil analysis can track oil performance. Still prefer changing the oil.

KARNUT · July 5, 2021

42 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

My theory on OCI's.

I do visual checks. Pull the oil dip stick and look at color. Usually by 3 k miles it's dark. Tells me it's got quite a bit of carbon and other junk in the oil. Running it longer allows the junk to be deposited on the inside of the motor IMO. Oil changes can be cheap and are easy.

I have used a lot of different oil brands over the years in a variety of vehicles. All were dark by 3 K miles.

As I said tough to change a system that has worked for over 50 years. Yea I get the oils and filters are better today. Plus an oil analysis can track oil performance. Still prefer changing the oil.

That works for you. That’s what you should do. I did the same until Amsoil showed up. Can’t remember if they came to us or my brother sought them out. Our work vehicles were paid for by our company so what the hell give it a shot. Testing was often especially after 7K miles and beyond. The wife’s cars usually once a year. It took awhile to get comfortable with it, I’ll admit. The choice was always regular oil short OCIs or pay extra and extended. The cost balanced. Our work vehicles diesel or gas pulled our equipment. There wasn’t drop offs in oil pressure and they ran cooler. Now people change synthetic like it’s regular oil, puzzling. 40 years have gone by since. Now manufacturers have gone semi extended. Oils have advertised extended. There’s no price on pease of mind. That’s for certain.

Grumpy Bear · July 6, 2021

11 hours ago, diyer2 said:

My theory on OCI's.

I do visual checks. Pull the oil dip stick and look at color. Usually by 3 k miles it's dark. Tells me it's got quite a bit of carbon and other junk in the oil. Running it longer allows the junk to be deposited on the inside of the motor IMO. Oil changes can be cheap and are easy.

I have used a lot of different oil brands over the years in a variety of vehicles. All were dark by 3 K miles.

As I said tough to change a system that has worked for over 50 years. Yea I get the oils and filters are better today. Plus an oil analysis can track oil performance. Still prefer changing the oil.

I don't know about oil being better. It could be better. But greed keeps getting in the way.

Group I came about in the 1930's. Group II originated in 1971. Group IV PAO in 1974. Group III originating in 1993. Group V POE/Diesters in the 1940's.

My oldest child was born about the time we had really good base oils. Mobil 1 was introduced in 1976 two years after PAO's went commercial and 17 years before the first Group III base oils. They would abandoned this shortly after loosing to Castrol in 1998. We've had good products and greed canceled them. 1979 Red Line was bottling 'real' Ester synthetics and still is.

While the battle for the term Synthetic was under way the Government, API. SAE and OEM's were busy fighting over chemistry, definitions of the words in English and taking away every advantage these products presented with conditions of operation unheard of.

For every inch of progress Big Oil makes Detroit and Government take back a foot the Big Oil cashes in and down the rabbit hole we go.

So better oils? Oh yea.....but.....current operating conditions make it seem like progress is digress.

Currently we are in a phase were the HTHS is dropping to the catastrophic failure mode and detergents and antioxidants are being lowered with each new SAE cycle. Chemistry is back to the 1950's and the lies keep coming.

diyer2 · July 6, 2021

There have been millions of vehicles logging millions of miles for quite some time and everyone decides what they believe to be the best method and products to use.

The many methods and choice of products hasn't caused a major outbreak of motor failures for years so the quality of the oil must say something or there would be engine failures in staggering numbers.

The frequency of oil changes should be related to the quality of the products used. Also consider the type of usage like towing.

Products can always be improved but profit rules.

KARNUT · July 6, 2021

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

There have been millions of vehicles logging millions of miles for quite some time and everyone decides what they believe to be the best method and products to use.

The many methods and choice of products hasn't caused a major outbreak of motor failures for years so the quality of the oil must say something or there would be engine failures in staggering numbers.

The frequency of oil changes should be related to the quality of the products used. Also consider the type of usage like towing.

Products can always be improved but profit rules.

I didn’t believe anything, I tested. When we went will Amsoil many years ago I was last in the family business to go along. An hydraulic hose failure on my machine is what it took. Usually a high pressure hose failure would take a pump and motor. Thousands of dollars. I hit a piece of metal took out an high pressure hose. I couldn’t shut it down fast enough. Had Amsoil in the tank. Replaced the hose figured my hydraulic pressure would be down or nonexistent. Nothing change, like it never happened. Made me a believer. My wife’s 94 Z-28 had 6 oil changes in 7 years and 130K miles. Extreme for today in most cases. I’m still a believer in extended in some cases. I definitely go the manufacturers recommended while under warranty.

Grumpy Bear · July 7, 2021

I see we are hung up on the definition of an oil related failure.

AGIAN.

On 7/6/2021 at 7:26 AM, diyer2 said:

There have been millions of vehicles logging millions of miles for quite some time and everyone decides what they believe to be the best method and products to use.

The many methods and choice of products hasn't caused a major outbreak of motor failures for years so the quality of the oil must say something or there would be engine failures in staggering numbers.

The frequency of oil changes should be related to the quality of the products used. Also consider the type of usage like towing.

Products can always be improved but profit rules.

Okay, You explain it.

What do you call entire engine families (Plural) whose rings collapse causing ridiculous oil consumption often enough to warrant a GM TBS, warranty claims and lawsuits and thousands of post in threads such as this? That cause an OEM to create a special specification for engine cleanliness. A specification for oil to prevent timing chain wear? VLOM/lifter failures. Cam phaser screens plugging causing failures. What do you call a culture created by the OEM that has brainwashed people in the public to believe a quart in 2000 miles is NORMAL when the entire engineering world says otherwise?

What the heck is an oil related failure to you?

I'm listening

Edited July 7, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · July 7, 2021

:lurk:

Did I miss it?

Just stepped out for some popcorn

Yeesh!!

KARNUT · July 8, 2021

59 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Did I miss it?

Just stepped out for some popcorn

Yeesh!!

I said it before, I’ll try again. How about a bad engine design? Maybe I should keep to myself. But it seems logical.

Grumpy Bear · July 8, 2021

I suppose this could be like white VW bugs. You just never notice they are there until you own one then they are everywhere.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/06/general-motors-hit-with-class-action-lawsuit-over-2-4l-engine-oil-consumption/

This is actually funny. GM claims bad design and as design is not covered under warranty these suits get tossed out regularly.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2021/gm-class-action-lawsuit-oil-consumption-dismissed.shtml

GM claims in this one that the owner is at fault for not saying something so no breach of warranty.

https://thelemonfirm.com/2020/08/12/oil-consumption-issues-in-gm-vehicles/

This one was dismissed then the judge reversed himself.

https://www.beasleyallen.com/article/gm-loses-bid-to-decertify-class-action-over-engine-defect/

Earlier this year, GM fought the proposed class action but Judge Chen could see the severity of the defect, stating “GM was aware of an oil consumption problem with the Gen IV engines as early as the end of 2008 or early 2009… Despite the fact that GM knew that the [repair] was ineffective by February 2010, it still directed servicers of GM vehicles to complete the procedure as part of the recommended response to oil consumption problems without addressing the root problem.”

So where am I going with this? Why was the 'repair ineffective"? And what was the Root Problem? Do they do this from the day they leave the lot? No! Scan these post and look the dozens more up yourself. It's almost universal. 60 to 100K they turn into oil pumps. It was ineffective because is was not a DESIGN ISSUE.

This is not a mechanical defect. This is an OIL RELATED FAILURE!

Now why would I say that? GM wants what few warranty claims it does honor to replace all pistons and ring sets. They pull pistons whose rings are 'stuck', gummed up with varnish, carbon, coke and sludge and blame the 'rings'???

Let me show you something:

That girls is the end of a nearly 50K mile cat fight with the dreaded Ecotec 2.4 I4 and it's a fight I won.

It will take me 10 minutes to PREVENT THIS IN the next one I buy.

So here is the question for all the geniuses in the room:

If this is a mechanical or design issue how did this stupid moron you love to hate; reverse it with chemistry 'normally' found in ALL motor oils?

Answer. It would not be possible and yet.....

Scoop! There it is!

I've made a hobby out of doing what I use to do for living. Fixing crap PhD's, poly-tics/ignorance can't.

You guys like the Kool-Aid GM is serving up? Fine...enjoy it.

My problem is solved

Did I say that loud enough?

My problem is solved

**********************************************************************

I know what happened. Why it happened. How to prevent it from happing again.

What do you have?

Your hate?

:crackup:

Edited September 1, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · July 8, 2021

I wonder:

Why is it that people believe their wishes, moods, beliefs, prejudices, hatreds, experience, needs....have any influence whatsoever on the physical world? You can not solve a problem with your will. The laws of this universe do not care who you hate or why you hate them. What you believe or why you believe it. It doesn't care, it doesn't reason, it doesn't feel. It doesn't answer to a board of directors or bend to popular culture nor its inclinations. It can not be tricked. Faked out. It can not be bribed nor bought. It does not respond to any law of any land nor bend to any corporation, religion, philosophy or government. The only laws it obeys are Gods and they do not even care if you believe in him. It's the only thing it can obey. It has no choice.

Get a grip!

KARNUT · July 8, 2021

You answer the questions you self. All the while proving my point. It’s the wrong oil for that engine design. Your words. You fixed a problem with a flush. Dare I say it, different oil. Every oil company makes different oils for different applications. Way back in the seventies I put a 289 in my Ford pickup. I put oil from a drum at my father’s shop. It was for the diesel equipment. Not too long after the oil pressure dropped. It was the wrong oil for the application. I cleaned the pump screen used the right oil problem solved. I avoid engines that are potentially unreliable. I’ve had three vehicles lately with the same engine, transmission compo. A sports sedan, suv, sports car. Non di 6 cylinder 290 hp. 27-34 miles per gallon. They need nothing special in the crankcase. The next will be an twin turbo of the same engine. I keep an eye on their enthusiast website too. Nothing going on with those engines. No re-invention of oil. I had two new oil burners one GM one Ford. My friend has the same with an Oldsmobile, my father in-law with a Lincoln. We put in oil drove them as long as we normally would. No lifter, cam, etc failures. Called it what it was, bad-wrong parts. It happens. I don’t need long reads about the going’s on with oil. Until the manufacturers of the vehicles I drive say change the oil more often I’m going with that. They have a good reputation, they want to keep it. Or my brother a redline, Amsoil dealer if he says he’s getting blow back on extended. Or a bulletin from those. I’m not changing my oil changing habits. Keep calling me names or blocking me or whatever. I hope it makes you feel better. I do.

Edited July 8, 2021 by KARNUT

diyer2 · July 8, 2021

Grmpy,

There have not been a lot of engine failures that I know of for a long time. Oil has been doing it's job in general. There can always be the bad apple.

Grumpy Bear · July 9, 2021

13 hours ago, diyer2 said:

Grmpy,

There have not been a lot of engine failures that I know of for a long time. Oil has been doing it's job in general. There can always be the bad apple.

My friend we will not be continuing this exchange as we do not agree on the definition of 'failure'. I explained mine, I've asked for yours and you've declined. Nothing more to say I think.