I have an abstract mind and love to think out of the box....so lets say!!

Grumpy Bear · March 5, 2023

1 minute ago, Jettech1 said:

That's a great point you make and we've all seen this happen with our computers and our phones... Great point!

Greed's belly is never EVER full. Kind of the definition of it.

Jettech1 · March 6, 2023

7 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Greed's belly is never EVER full. Kind of the definition of it.

I couldn't agree more!!

kickass audio · March 6, 2023

I wouldn't buy into the pay for x features you want if the vehicle is equipped with it from the factory. It's like the GM supercruise. you need to pay for that subscription like blondestar for it to work, without paying for it, you don't get it. that's nonsense. I can see paying for upgrades on the maps and things like that and updates but not just to use the feature.

Jettech1 · March 6, 2023

3 hours ago, kickass audio said:

I wouldn't buy into the pay for x features you want if the vehicle is equipped with it from the factory. It's like the GM supercruise. you need to pay for that subscription like blondestar for it to work, without paying for it, you don't get it. that's nonsense. I can see paying for upgrades on the maps and things like that and updates but not just to use the feature.

That's a great point you make. But lets say you wanted a feature that was wrapped up into a ton of other features you didn't want to pay for but you wanted some of them? I use the heated seats and nav as an example. I for one hate chevy nav and Ford nav...thank you waze!!! But I would pay say 10 bucks a month during the colder weather here in Atlanta for a nice warm steering wheel and nice warm seats. And then when it warms up I can just just not pay for those features...call it options. Pay for what you want and not pay for it when you don't need it. I think BMW is on to something here. Adaptive cruise...see that's another option that could easily be there in a lower model truck. And easily turned on for a small monthly payment...GM builds in all the hardware into the lowest models and on up. The higher models, you pay for it up front. The lower models, it's there if you want to send us a monthly fee. I actually love this idea...you get what you want to pay for.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Jettech1

64BAwagon · March 6, 2023

Be careful what you wish for, GM is trying to deploy these ongoing revenue schemes even to the point where they have survey data saying that buyers will agree to over $100 a month worth of subscription charges.

Up here heated seats, mirrors and steering wheels are almost a necessity. Just like in the late 80's when I got my first truck with power windows, theres no looking back. Besides the fact that my wife has made a blanket decree that any new vehicles WILL have heated seats. When I first started driving I had manual trans and steering until I got my 4th car. A far cry from todays world.

nards444 · March 6, 2023

No on so many fronts. And here is why.

1. Working in business rent vs buy hardly ever works out to rent. Obviously milage would vary for people, but for those in the north like me, we have cold probably 6 months out of year. thats 60 bucks year, average age of car ownership is 7 years. That means I would pay 420 bucks over 7 years, assuming no cost escalation. Also I would still be paying for the hardware up front, in the end people would probably end up paying more to half use something.

2. People buy a few capital type things personally, house is one and vehicles are another. No way in principal and in some ways logically would I want to buy a 50, 60, 80 truck and have to rent features. If I buy and own something I dont want to rent features. Furthermore, looking at others who have done this BMW etc, customers are not happy.

3. Where does the renting end, engine use, doors unlocking etc. Now one place I might see this model working is the infotainment center, think like your streaming on TV, maybe certain features for entertainment, wifi etc would be on a rental or subscription base.

4. I think some people step over a dollar to save a penny per say when buying vehicles. Most people arent buying work trucks, though there are a few on this thread that are. Also when looking at the Denali or High country versions, yes you get everything but you are also paying for an upcharge for the name and stickers, where you can get all the same features minus the name in an LTZ or AT4. People will also buy LTs or SLE levels but throw out the baby with the bathwater over 1500 bucks. Reality is trucks are pricey and adding even 3-4k to the truck is only going to add 30-40 a month to a note, probably cheaper and easier then renting those options. Also on the back end at trade you would probably get 30-50% back on the price of that option.

Now to other things that kind of go with this.

1. With the cost escalation of vehicles, I think renting or ride sharing is going to become huge at some point. At first well see 5-6 year leases and 10 year car loans. But if we go to renting, maybe then this will be an option

2. I wish vehicles would still be ala carte when ordering options. Now we are stuck with trim levels. I know why they do it. But ordering ala carte would save money or get me what i want a lot easier.

Edited March 6, 2023 by nards444

kickass audio · March 7, 2023

21 hours ago, Jettech1 said:

That's a great point you make. But lets say you wanted a feature that was wrapped up into a ton of other features you didn't want to pay for but you wanted some of them? I use the heated seats and nav as an example. I for one hate chevy nav and Ford nav...thank you waze!!! But I would pay say 10 bucks a month during the colder weather here in Atlanta for a nice warm steering wheel and nice warm seats. And then when it warms up I can just just not pay for those features...call it options. Pay for what you want and not pay for it when you don't need it. I think BMW is on to something here. Adaptive cruise...see that's another option that could easily be there in a lower model truck. And easily turned on for a small monthly payment...GM builds in all the hardware into the lowest models and on up. The higher models, you pay for it up front. The lower models, it's there if you want to send us a monthly fee. I actually love this idea...you get what you want to pay for.

I just don't see how it would work. you need the hardware to get it all to work not just software. Maybe you could have a lower end hardware set where you pay on a payment plan to use the feature but it's not as fast or feature rich as an upgraded line that has the full hardware capability built in. Think of it like your computer, if you want more multitasking capability, you can't just buy more processor or RAM when you need it, you need the hardware at all times and once you have the hardware you can either expand or redact how much you want for resources.

Jettech1 · March 7, 2023

2 minutes ago, kickass audio said:

I just don't see how it would work. you need the hardware to get it all to work not just software. Maybe you could have a lower end hardware set where you pay on a payment plan to use the feature but it's not as fast or feature rich as an upgraded line that has the full hardware capability built in. Think of it like your computer, if you want more multitasking capability, you can't just buy more processor or RAM when you need it, you need the hardware at all times and once you have the hardware you can either expand or redact how much you want for resources.

I totally agree. There will be costs associated with this idea. But I'm thinking the end result will be pay for what you want, not pay for a bunch of other crap you don't..

OffTheAir · March 7, 2023

I don't fashion myself a paranoid individual, but man does it scare me that this subscription craze has entered the automotive world, lol.

Don't get me wrong, It's definitely a neat concept, but part of me just can't help but wonder how this could be manipulated further in the future. Someone mentioned earlier about what happens in the future when the service gets discontinued, and I think that's a good point. I'm curious on how automakers could potentially use this to subtly encourage people to trade up?

I'm not saying I believe in that kind of stuff, it's just a hypothetical, but I figured it was worth bringing up for discussion. With OnStar it was like, pfft, yeah whatever it's just a thing that is kind of there now that doesn't work, but it doesn't change my driving experience. But now that we're entering the age where our vehicles are basically software and we have the hardware for these features we're paying to have enabled, I'd be hella pissed if I plan on keeping the vehicle a long time, but now I just have these "ghost" features now that are not operational.

Edited March 7, 2023 by OffTheAir

nards444 · March 7, 2023

16 hours ago, OffTheAir said:

I don't fashion myself a paranoid individual, but man does it scare me that this subscription craze has entered the automotive world, lol.

Don't get me wrong, It's definitely a neat concept, but part of me just can't help but wonder how this could be manipulated further in the future. Someone mentioned earlier about what happens in the future when the service gets discontinued, and I think that's a good point. I'm curious on how automakers could potentially use this to subtly encourage people to trade up?

I'm not saying I believe in that kind of stuff, it's just a hypothetical, but I figured it was worth bringing up for discussion. With OnStar it was like, pfft, yeah whatever it's just a thing that is kind of there now that doesn't work, but it doesn't change my driving experience. But now that we're entering the age where our vehicles are basically software and we have the hardware for these features we're paying to have enabled, I'd be hella pissed if I plan on keeping the vehicle a long time, but now I just have these "ghost" features now that are not operational.

Yeah you bring up a good point on the feature ending. Just like cellphones, sorry you are on version 5.6 and it will no longer be supported, so your radio doesn’t work unless you buy a new car. This idea has bad idea written all over it. Keep in mind the manufacture will only offer this to make money, or make you lose money. Example my wife bought a 2015 Dodge Journey, NAV package etc. Nav had no subscription on it or nothing. Year went by and it stopped working, brough it to the dealer and said your maps had to be updated for it work again at a cost of $110. Said ok can we get it work without updated maps, answer was no. Asked will I have to update every year to make it work, answer was don’t know, could be 1 year or two years. So car where we already paid for the NAV on a top trim level was going to cost another 50-100 a year to use it. This is a bad idea. GM is already charging 1500 or 500 a year to use their onstar, nav, app, and wifi.

Edited March 7, 2023 by nards444

diyer2 · March 7, 2023

Garmin GPS free lifetime updates.

Jettech1 · March 7, 2023

4 hours ago, diyer2 said:

Garmin GPS free lifetime updates.

I love your replies....they are usually direct, to the point with no added filler. I love them and you are always spot on....please don't ever go away!!

Jettech1 · March 7, 2023

I can see this post brought on a lot of great discussion. I didn't get flamed too bad....lol....but you all made great points. And it's not like I was totally thinking about of the box knowing full well BMW is trying this out along with Tesla. I was just wanting to hear how others felt about the idea. Good or bad, it appears most car companies are going to move to this direction. I hope I'm wrong, but we've seen it before with cell phones, cable bills, etc etc. A monthly subscription based usage with the hardware already installed in the vehicles, I do believe is coming whether we like it or not.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Jettech1

KARNUT · March 7, 2023

41 minutes ago, Jettech1 said:

I can see this post brought on a lot of great discussion. I didn't get flamed too bad....lol....but you all made great points. And it's not like I was totally thinking about of the box knowing full well BMW is trying this out along with Tesla. I was just wanting to hear how others felt about the idea. Good or bad, it appears most car companies are going to move to this direction. I hope I'm wrong, but we've seen it before with cell phones, cable bills, etc etc. A monthly subscription based usage with the hardware already installed in the vehicles, I do believe is coming whether we like it or not.

I recently had to get a new IPhone. My old one worked just fine. I used it for everything. It was about to be unsupported. I couldn’t care less about the camera or getting a bigger phone. So like the vehicles I buy I got last year’s model. I don’t like paying for subscriptions for stuff I can get for free like GPS, music etc. Renting features not happening. An enterprising car company will have it included and rake it in.