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Infineum Insight | Striking the right balance

 

Read it all but take note of that last paragraph. This work is NOT YET REALIZED and the benefit between a 0W20 and a 15W40 on fuel economy is but 2 to 3%. However, the marketing machine is already in play. 

 

OEM's use to carry out RESEARCH in labs and on test tracks and fretted it all out before releasing it to the public. Today there is little such Bonafide research. YOU are the laboratory. They have adopted the MicroSoft methodology. Get it close, sort of. Release it and let is fail in the 'real world' and then patch it just until the warranty cost is in control. 

 

Trust is no longer valued. 

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In terms of keeping rings clean among the boutique brands- HPL. Amsoil will clean but not as aggressively. Same for Red Line who uses more ester than the other two but uses less polar esters.

HPL - Strong cleaning action, shear/thermal stability.
Amsoil - Long change intervals, durability.
Red Line - High heat tolerance, shear stability.

 

Red Line does use the most amount of ester per grade ranging from 20-40%.  Their latest SDS show 50-70% PAO.  Dave G. told me some grades use up to 40%.

 

The interesting thing is, not all esters can clean the same.  HPL specifically chose select esters that are extremely polar and clean.  They also blend in AN's which don't compete for surface space like esters.

 

Among the readily available oils, Mobil 1 FS 0w40 and 0w40 Super Car are standouts.  So much so that the HPL owner said they are fantastic and would use in his own car.  

 

The latest SP variant though of the 0w40 no longer shows an oxidation spike over 30.  It's now around 7 and Mobil is now using some secret sauce in their blends.  Next generation.

 

Have a read:

 

Mobil 1 x Chevrolet Performance

 

 

Edited by TunaFresh
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5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

You do know XOM makes GM's oil, right? They don't make a better oil for GM than they do for themselves, do they?

 

🤔

 

I don't know who XOM is.  The MSDS for my oil says that it was made by Phillips 66 Lubricants.  You and I went over the specs about 4-5 years ago right before I started using it.  It was just under Red Line in viscosity.  I would imagine that a manufacturer would produce a product to the specs given to them by the one who hired them and that it would be tested to see if it met the customer's requirements.  As part of the contract, their may or may not be a clause whereby the company who made that product could use it as their own.  

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7 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

@Jworks

These choices you made pushed wear rates out past the far right of the lower of these two graphs.

 

And these two graphs point out the difference between the OEM/EPA goals for your motor [upper] and your goals for your motor [lower]. I'm on that bus with you. 

 

 

Feature

 

OK, much of this is beyond my understanding.  But it seems to me you are saying, especially in the lower graph, that my thinking (on the old '94 GMC, 4.3) by adding the STP and going to 20w40 then later 20w50 was reducing my engine wear.  If thats what you're saying, that was my goal in the first place.  And, I'm assuming the top chart means I was way out of bounds as for gas mileage.  I honestly didn't care about that.  Longevity of the engine was my goal.  I got 19mpg on that engine.

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48 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

 

I don't know who XOM is.  The MSDS for my oil says that it was made by Phillips 66 Lubricants.  You and I went over the specs about 4-5 years ago right before I started using it.  It was just under Red Line in viscosity.  I would imagine that a manufacturer would produce a product to the specs given to them by the one who hired them and that it would be tested to see if it met the customer's requirements.  As part of the contract, their may or may not be a clause whereby the company who made that product could use it as their own.  

Swathdiver, he means Exxon-Mobil.  XOM is the stock symbol .

Edited by Jworks
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44 minutes ago, Jworks said:

OK, much of this is beyond my understanding.  But it seems to me you are saying, especially in the lower graph, that my thinking (on the old '94 GMC, 4.3) by adding the STP and going to 20w40 then later 20w50 was reducing my engine wear.  If thats what you're saying, that was my goal in the first place.  And, I'm assuming the top chart means I was way out of bounds as for gas mileage.  I honestly didn't care about that.  Longevity of the engine was my goal.  I got 19mpg on that engine.

 

Higher HTHS (high temperature, high shear a.k.a Operating viscosity), yes IN GENERAL reduces wear. There is also such a thing as 'too much of a good thing'.  Not getting oil pumping quick enough in cold weather also causes wear.

 

Take a look at this chart: Note the data? Then compare with the values from the mid 1960's in the chart below.  

 

Delo 400LE 5W40 full synthetic - TDIClub Forums

 

As a much young man these were the specs: 

 

Engine-oils-viscosity-values-at-100-o-C-and-the-high-shear-viscosity-measured-at-150-o-C.png.8f5e8b66bdc5c68a9a1c0ceb18be8e21.png

 

As you can see these values are declining. These older charts are rapidly disappearing from the internet. 

 

You can find modern oils with old time HTHS numbers. You have to look for them and they will not be on a O Reilly's or Walmart shelf. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jworks said:

Swathdiver, he means Exxon-Mobil.  XOM is the stock symbol .

 

Latest DATED info I can find is Mobil is still the supplier and has been since 1990. Trail does get thin past 2015 but it is the ONLY supplier for Dexos R so my belief is they all are. 

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4 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Latest DATED info I can find is Mobil is still the supplier and has been since 1990. Trail does get thin past 2015 but it is the ONLY supplier for Dexos R so my belief is they all are. 

image.thumb.png.aa8ba231e420261d140d4bf82a5cfeb4.png

This is dated July 2017 and does not appear to have changed as I download a new SDS after every purchased and they've all been the same.

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On 8/29/2023 at 3:27 PM, diyer2 said:

I have never used additives. As far as cleaning, if you change oil more often then cleaning doesn't matter IMO.

 

Indeed.  As a preventative measure, you ideally want strong oxidation resistance, good detergent/dispersant package and lower SA (for GDI).  Solvency depends on the ester type and certainly helps.  Not all esters are created equal.  More specifically, Red Line's cleaning ability is very questionable. I would argue Amsoil SS cleans better than Red Line from what I've seen.  

 

 

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17 hours ago, swathdiver said:

image.thumb.png.aa8ba231e420261d140d4bf82a5cfeb4.png

This is dated July 2017 and does not appear to have changed as I download a new SDS after every purchased and they've all been the same.

 

I responded to this yesterday and it took it. Today I looked and it was gone. I found a newer, 29 August 2022 MSDS also Phillips. Not looking it up twice.

 

It would seem there is indeed a new guy making their oil now. Petro Canada makes in for that market.  😉 

 

The 2022 MSDS in section 16 showed the reason for update to be an update in chemistry. One of three reasons given. This MSDS covered the Gen3 oils. I also noted that the CAS numbers for Mobil 1 version and the Phillips version are identical. Shelf oils are truly a commodity product with little variation. A drum I've beat for some time. The very license requirements themselves demand a very narrow allowable base oil and additive package. 

 

Arguing whose licensed product is better is like arguing which match of the same book is better. 

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Most approved lubricants meeting the same specifications will perform similarly.  However, there is variation though - some exceed the Sequence IIIH by 10x, some by 20x, some use better AOs, some use AN's, some use esters, some use Ti, boron in different amounts etc.  Mobil 1 is not the same as PUP or Valvoline EP.  The top tier within a line will vary comparatively speaking.

 

Once you're out of the approved world, it becomes a matter of trust.  

 

image.thumb.png.36375339f4310f60a25383c5fe0f7ade.png

Edited by TunaFresh
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