OIL ANALYSIS

[customboss]

Industrial idea but what do you guys and gals think?  
     
 

   https://www.plantservices.com/maintenance-mindset/article/55265799/maintenance-mindset-its-the-end-of-oil-analysis-as-we-know-it-and-i-feel-fine
 
 

Edited March 18 by customboss

[Grumpy Bear]

Not sure of the question? 

[customboss]

What do you think from the article? Can AI interpret better than a human? 

[Grumpy Bear]

Garbage in, garbage out. AI is only as good as the data it is feed. True that for humans as well. AI's advantage is in consistency obtained by a lack of distractions. It doesn't tire or forget or have a need to consider how you may feel about what it's going to tell you. What AI isn't good at is abstract thought. It never asks what if, only what is and that is limited to what it is told it may consider.  AI doesn't actually THINK, it processes. Anyway, my 2 cents on it. 

[customboss]

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Garbage in, garbage out. AI is only as good as the data it is feed. True that for humans as well. AI's advantage is in consistency obtained by a lack of distractions. It doesn't tire or forget or have a need to consider how you may feel about what it's going to tell you. What AI isn't good at is abstract thought. It never asks what if, only what is and that is limited to what it is told it may consider.  AI doesn't actually THINK, it processes. Anyway, my 2 cents on it. 

Yesterday GM partnered with : 

“Today at #GTC, NVIDIA announced a collaboration with General Motors to develop next-generation vehicles, factories, and robotics using AI simulation and accelerated computing. AI is fundamentally changing the world, and GM is embracing it to enhance manufacturing, revolutionize vehicle tech, and build smarter vehicles with personalized customer experiences. 

I’m looking forward to sharing more on this topic at GTC this afternoon with NVIDIA’s Norman Marks.”

https://lnkd.in/gCsJk3Gd

[Grumpy Bear]

Computer are good a dong repetitive tasks at warp speed.  

 

I don't know so much about 'enhancing the customer experience". Dizzy is computer operated 

[Grumpy Bear]

Seems a good place to pin this up. We've run across it several times in this discussion. 

 

William Edwards Deming quote: 

 

Without data, you're just another person with an opinion.

 

And that is exactly what a VOA/UOA are before we analyze. Data. Now allot of folks would like to get caught up in the accuracy trap and if we were dissecting atoms for Hiroshima I'd get it but there are times when trend analysis can be pretty darn effective. I can use a tetter-totter to segregate rocks by weight without the argument of how accurate the weight is. 

 

Collect enough data and even bad data gets lost in the statistics. It IS the point.  

 

[Grumpy Bear]

Data: 

 

Pepper's last check up registered 6.36 ppm wear metals per 1K miles. 10W30 Valvoline CUMMINS. 5K OCI's. 

Dizzy's last report came in at 5.4 ppm/thousand miles. Mobil 1 15W50 on 2K OCI's. Impressive! 

Raven's last only report comes in at 2.9 ppm/thousand miles. Red Line HP Euro 5W40 on 3,750 OCI's. 

 

Mr. Speed's guide line is that the world is spinning perfectly when under 5 ppm total wear metals per thousand miles. 

 

Copper is killing Pepper, likely cooler leaching. Shorter OCI?  (2.38 ppm kicking out copper.)  

Dizzy is about on target at 2K intervals with 15W50  Ole girl is tired. 

Raven is being over serviced.  Happy to hear that. Greedy me looking for better. 

[OnTheReel]

6 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Data: 

 

Pepper's last check up registered 6.36 ppm wear metals per 1K miles. 10W30 Valvoline CUMMINS. 5K OCI's. 

Dizzy's last report came in at 5.4 ppm/thousand miles. Mobil 1 15W50 on 2K OCI's. Impressive! 

Raven's last only report comes in at 2.9 ppm/thousand miles. Red Line HP Euro 5W40 on 3,750 OCI's. 

 

Mr. Speed's guide line is that the world is spinning perfectly when under 5 ppm total wear metals per thousand miles. 

 

Copper is killing Pepper, likely cooler leaching. Shorter OCI?  (2.38 ppm kicking out copper.)  

Dizzy is about on target at 2K intervals with 15W50  Ole girl is tired. 

Raven is being over serviced.  Happy to hear that. Greedy me looking for better. 

“One test is worth 1000 expert opinions.”

 

A spinoff of the same quote you posted earlier that I like a little better. 
 

Obviously cleaner is always better and wear begets wear…BUT is there any indication that copper in the oil from leaching -in and of itself- will further increase wear? What particle size would we be talking?
 

I honestly barely pay attention to the copper readings because absent any other issues we can all assume it’s leaching (on any vehicle with a cooler) and there’s nothing to be done. 

[Grumpy Bear]

9 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

“One test is worth 1000 expert opinions.”

 

A spinoff of the same quote you posted earlier that I like a little better. 
 

Obviously cleaner is always better and wear begets wear…BUT is there any indication that copper in the oil from leaching -in and of itself- will further increase wear? What particle size would we be talking?
 

I honestly barely pay attention to the copper readings because absent any other issues we can all assume it’s leaching (on any vehicle with a cooler) and there’s nothing to be done. 

 

Spectroscopic Analysis ASTM D5185 can detect in the 5 to 8, maybe up to 10 micron range.

 

I don't pay it much mind either UNLESS it is accompanied by lead and or tin. That could indicate some bearing or bushing wear. A copper core cooler in in play is more likely.

 

Pepper has been sheading copper for years at a 20-25 ppm rate. Trends on you Hellcat are still building but look pretty flat and normal for the platform. Some PCMO formulas are more reactive than others.  Several reasons of which few are harmful me thinks. 

 

@customboss may have some other ideas or experience to share on this. Like what would this look like if CUFILM was in play? 

 

Was that Red Line HP 5W50 test you shared from your truck? If so, lets have a look!  

[OnTheReel]

Not from my truck. I have no use for Blackstone anymore. Who wants to wait 6 weeks for their results and get less usable data for the same price as Amsoil/OAI. They really screwed the pooch. 

My girl just came out of hibernation a few weeks ago. She’s on M1 5w50 Supercar. I don’t intend to use it long term but it was an interesting enough product to take a look. Lots of zinc for an API. Minimal detergent package because allegedly they didn’t want it competing with the AW additives. It may shear like nobodies business but as of now if oil pressure is an indication, it hasn’t yet.

[Black02Silverado]

2 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

Not from my truck. I have no use for Blackstone anymore. Who wants to wait 6 weeks for their results and get less usable data for the same price as Amsoil/OAI. They really screwed the pooch. 

My girl just came out of hibernation a few weeks ago. She’s on M1 5w50 Supercar. I don’t intend to use it long term but it was an interesting enough product to take a look. Lots of zinc for an API. Minimal detergent package because allegedly they didn’t want it competing with the AW additives. It may shear like nobodies business but as of now if oil pressure is an indication, it hasn’t yet.

I found if you use the UPS Oil Analyzers kit the turn around time is faster than sending it USPS.  Just an FYI.

[OnTheReel]

10 minutes ago, Black02Silverado said:

I found if you use the UPS Oil Analyzers kit the turn around time is faster than sending it USPS.  Just an FYI.

Definitely. USPS is a complete disaster right now. I buy the non-prepaid kits and just use my UPS business account to ship. Cheapest way to get a good quality test, and quickly.

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Black02Silverado said:

I found if you use the UPS Oil Analyzers kit the turn around time is faster than sending it USPS.  Just an FYI.

I’m testing that theory right now. 

[customboss]

50 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

Definitely. USPS is a complete disaster right now. I buy the non-prepaid kits and just use my UPS business account to ship. Cheapest way to get a good quality test, and quickly.

3 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Spectroscopic Analysis ASTM D5185 can detect in the 5 to 8, maybe up to 10 micron range.

 

I don't pay it much mind either UNLESS it is accompanied by lead and or tin. That could indicate some bearing or bushing wear. A copper core cooler in in play is more likely.

 

Pepper has been sheading copper for years at a 20-25 ppm rate. Trends on you Hellcat are still building but look pretty flat and normal for the platform. Some PCMO formulas are more reactive than others.  Several reasons of which few are harmful me thinks. 

 

@customboss may have some other ideas or experience to share on this. Like what would this look like if CUFILM was in play? 

 

Was that Red Line HP 5W50 test you shared from your truck? If so, lets have a look!  

 

 

CUFILM would add both Boron and Copper. 
CU @ ~200 ppm 

B I don’t know yet