E85 And Algae Biodiesel

[chevy123123]

currently, with the corn setup making ethanol, the energy out to in ratio is 1.8:1, in brazil their ethanol is made using sugar cane which produces a ratio of 5:1, switch grass can produce an ethanol ratio of 10:1. (not sure where i got these statistics but it would be nice if someone can confirm this with me)

 

Wasnt most of the US composed of switch grass before settlers moved west along time ago? If that's the case what the f^&* is going on with these corporations?!!! The solution to our energy problem is under our feet in our yards. And our home power solution is in north dakota with the winds up there, but that's another issue.

 

Also our deserts will probably be filled with genetically modified algae farms in the next 50 years which produce oils that can make biodiesel by the train load. I read an article about it in popular science a couple months ago, when the article was written they had not started full size experiments, but they have just started a batch to my knowledge, if anyone has any news about this just reply.

[1999 Tahoe 4x4]

Good question.

 

What I want to know is where is all the land in terms of acres, that this stuff is supposed to grow on. I doubt it is possible to produce even a significant fraction of the gazillion gallons of fuel needed for our cars by harvesting some grass or corn?

[chevy123123]

recently the deserts from the southwest and south from mexico have been creeping into the US and have moved close to Oklahoma, they said in 50 years the deserts should reach western north carolina. Which makes me hope that this algae thing will work out better than ethanol.

 

There was a modern marvels about gas/fuel, it's actually not alot of land per amount of fuel that comes out, it's certainly alot more fuel per plant percent wise in terms of biomass than the 40% of gas that comes per barrel of oil. I'm really worried about gas now considering it's taking up a HUGE part of my monthly bills and Al Gore is getting on my nerves, and I'm really looking forward to getting that Chevy volt just to save some cash.

 

Speaking of the Volt, there was rumors that the SS division of GM might put larger motors and up the current to get better straight line performance and lower it for handling, hell if an electric car can keep up with a gas one, I wont mind, although crossing the street at a college campus might be a dicey situation now.

[chrisdawg]

recently the deserts from the southwest and south from mexico have been creeping into the US and have moved close to Oklahoma, they said in 50 years the deserts should reach western north carolina. Which makes me hope that this algae thing will work out better than ethanol.

 

There was a modern marvels about gas/fuel, it's actually not alot of land per amount of fuel that comes out, it's certainly alot more fuel per plant percent wise in terms of biomass than the 40% of gas that comes per barrel of oil. I'm really worried about gas now considering it's taking up a HUGE part of my monthly bills and Al Gore is getting on my nerves, and I'm really looking forward to getting that Chevy volt just to save some cash.

 

Speaking of the Volt, there was rumors that the SS division of GM might put larger motors and up the current to get better straight line performance and lower it for handling, hell if an electric car can keep up with a gas one, I wont mind, although crossing the street at a college campus might be a dicey situation now.

 

E-85 sounds great and all that, but there are hardly any stations in California. The only stations are 45+ miles away making them pointless from where I'm at. I belong to the national ethanol coalition and they always have newer stations in other states besides CA.

[bigBP]

Funny you mention the potential for algae farms for biofuel production. I'm currently doing some high level technical evals on CO2 capture technologies for power plants (I'm an AQCS engineer for a public utility). There is some work currently going on in developing systems to pass flue gas from power plants (which contains around 15% CO2) through specially designed "farm" systems growing acres upon acres of algae. The algae absorbs the CO2, with the end result being around 80% of the CO2 removed from the flue gas before being sent up the stack. The algae is continuously harvested and can be used for a couple different things, of course one is to make biofuels. This stuff is still early in the development stages, but with all of the talk about climate change I think you'll see this stuff popping more into the mainstream sooner than later (after all, there is a lot of money to be made in climate change!)

 

Pretty neat stuff, one issue (and there are many many issues that are going to need to be addressed) that is currently being researched is how to grow acres of algae in a limited footprint, there are some pretty clever ideas out there.

 

Disclaimer - I'll will also note that this is a very expensive process. So before anyone goes off saying this is the answer to all the world's problems realize it will come at a cost, namely higher electric bills for you the customer. This goes for any CO2 capture technolgy.

[MustGoFaster]

here's a thought on the swithgrass. plant road ditches with the stuff. with between 33' for most township roads, 50 and 250' in some areas set on each side of most csah and higher level roads. I wondr what kind of acreage is in there. which is currently basically unutilized.

[Wingnut]

currently, with the corn setup making ethanol, the energy out to in ratio is 1.8:1, in brazil their ethanol is made using sugar cane which produces a ratio of 5:1, switch grass can produce an ethanol ratio of 10:1. (not sure where i got these statistics but it would be nice if someone can confirm this with me)

 

Wasnt most of the US composed of switch grass before settlers moved west along time ago? If that's the case what the f^&* is going on with these corporations?!!! The solution to our energy problem is under our feet in our yards. And our home power solution is in north dakota with the winds up there, but that's another issue.

 

Also our deserts will probably be filled with genetically modified algae farms in the next 50 years which produce oils that can make biodiesel by the train load. I read an article about it in popular science a couple months ago, when the article was written they had not started full size experiments, but they have just started a batch to my knowledge, if anyone has any news about this just reply.

 

Want to know why we're not using switchgrass or sugarcane?

 

 

*adjusts foil hat*

 

 

THE CORN LOBBY.

[MustGoFaster]

what is the price of corn nowadays. makes me with I would have invested in some though..

[Nick The Great]

currently, with the corn setup making ethanol, the energy out to in ratio is 1.8:1, in brazil their ethanol is made using sugar cane which produces a ratio of 5:1, switch grass can produce an ethanol ratio of 10:1. (not sure where i got these statistics but it would be nice if someone can confirm this with me)

 

Wasnt most of the US composed of switch grass before settlers moved west along time ago? If that's the case what the f^&* is going on with these corporations?!!! The solution to our energy problem is under our feet in our yards. And our home power solution is in north dakota with the winds up there, but that's another issue.

 

Also our deserts will probably be filled with genetically modified algae farms in the next 50 years which produce oils that can make biodiesel by the train load. I read an article about it in popular science a couple months ago, when the article was written they had not started full size experiments, but they have just started a batch to my knowledge, if anyone has any news about this just reply.

 

Want to know why we're not using switchgrass or sugarcane?

 

 

*adjusts foil hat*

 

 

THE CORN LOBBY.

 

 

The reason we're not using switchgrass or sugarcane is the same reason our rural roads have gravel on them: It's too much up front cost.

 

Come to Iowa and you'll see fields of corn and soybeans. They use (roughly) the same equipment and infrastructure (roads/transport, storage, etc.). You have tractors to pull plows and planters. You have these same tractors to cultivate and spray herbcide during the growing cycle. Then Combines take the grain and put it into a grain truck or tractor/wagon. Now visit Brazil or somewhere that grows a lot of sugarcane. They have equipment to "plant" the cane and take care of it during the year. Then you have to harvest all the biomass. I spent some time in Australia visting sugar cane facilities. They all used small scale trains on rails to haul it in to the processing plants. I've NEVER seen anything at all similar in the US, at least in the Midwest AKA the place where crops grow.

 

My senior research project in college was on making Ethanol from sweet sorghum. It is very similar to sugar cane, just is better suited to the Midwestern US. The main hurdle there was you had all this not-so-dense biomass and needed a way to physically/logistically get it to the facility. Either that or you had to "juice" the biomass in the field and then haul the syrup to the plant. None of which the technology is here yet.

 

Algae biomass? Great idea. So is a car that burns water. Just not real feasible, not right now at least.

[Wingnut]

currently, with the corn setup making ethanol, the energy out to in ratio is 1.8:1, in brazil their ethanol is made using sugar cane which produces a ratio of 5:1, switch grass can produce an ethanol ratio of 10:1. (not sure where i got these statistics but it would be nice if someone can confirm this with me)

 

Wasnt most of the US composed of switch grass before settlers moved west along time ago? If that's the case what the f^&* is going on with these corporations?!!! The solution to our energy problem is under our feet in our yards. And our home power solution is in north dakota with the winds up there, but that's another issue.

 

Also our deserts will probably be filled with genetically modified algae farms in the next 50 years which produce oils that can make biodiesel by the train load. I read an article about it in popular science a couple months ago, when the article was written they had not started full size experiments, but they have just started a batch to my knowledge, if anyone has any news about this just reply.

 

Want to know why we're not using switchgrass or sugarcane?

 

 

*adjusts foil hat*

 

 

THE CORN LOBBY.

 

 

The reason we're not using switchgrass or sugarcane is the same reason our rural roads have gravel on them: It's too much up front cost.

 

Come to Iowa and you'll see fields of corn and soybeans. They use (roughly) the same equipment and infrastructure (roads/transport, storage, etc.). You have tractors to pull plows and planters. You have these same tractors to cultivate and spray herbcide during the growing cycle. Then Combines take the grain and put it into a grain truck or tractor/wagon. Now visit Brazil or somewhere that grows a lot of sugarcane. They have equipment to "plant" the cane and take care of it during the year. Then you have to harvest all the biomass. I spent some time in Australia visting sugar cane facilities. They all used small scale trains on rails to haul it in to the processing plants. I've NEVER seen anything at all similar in the US, at least in the Midwest AKA the place where crops grow.

 

My senior research project in college was on making Ethanol from sweet sorghum. It is very similar to sugar cane, just is better suited to the Midwestern US. The main hurdle there was you had all this not-so-dense biomass and needed a way to physically/logistically get it to the facility. Either that or you had to "juice" the biomass in the field and then haul the syrup to the plant. None of which the technology is here yet.

 

Algae biomass? Great idea. So is a car that burns water. Just not real feasible, not right now at least.

 

 

YOU DISAGREE WITH ME SO YOU'RE PART OF THE CONSPIRACY!

 

 

ZOMG!

[carneyman]

And our home power solution is in north dakota with the winds up there

 

Actually this isn't a viable solution for generating power on a large scale. When the wind dies down you have to have a power source ready to generate power, which means, right now, coal burning power generating stations. Really, the only viable long-term low emission source of power is nuclear. Its ready, steady, reliable (except in Russia) and isn't dependent on oil/coal. Be prepared to see a lot of nuclear plants popping up within the next 10 years. Right now 8-10 are being built in Texas alone.

 

Interesting tidbit, the most powerful laser in the world, sitting right underneath UT in Austin, generates one pentawatt when it fires, which is roughly 2000 times the power output of all the power plants in the US...hate to pay that electric bill...