Wrench589

Well, that "new" GLE looks identical to this years M-class suv, so I don;t know whats so new about it. That said, their GL-class is essentially the M-class stretched out a biut - and not anywhere close to the size of a Suburban or Yukon XL. I know - I looked at one very closely. With my tape measure - although I didnt need a tape measure to see that the amount of room behind the 3rd row with in GL is pretty much useless compared to the Yukon XL. Not even close. NO, unfortunatley there are only 2 vehicles made that are in the class of a true "big" SUV - Suburban/Yukon XL and FOrd Expediation Max. These are full stretched out SUV's. Easy to spot - the second row door is full size, not chopped out to fit over the rear wheelwell. Every import barnd "full size" suv is chopped out. They may look big, but in reality they aren't. At least not where it counts. My take is that all those vehicles (except the big Lexuas, I think) are uni-body construction instead of body-on-frame. And the manufacturers may not be able to stretch the unibody out any further without compromising something. As for towing with that new GLE...well, looks good in the photos. Old school thinking says never tow heavy loads with a unibody vehicle. Alsways want a full frame vehicle for towing. I have always subscribed to that line of thinking. But, with modern design and manufacturing technologies, I guess it is possible to build a vehicle that can withstand the abuse of towing without impacting the structural integrity of the tow vehicle. I guess. Maybe. But wait - isn;t it all that "new technology" thinking that got these new GM into the trouble we're in now??? Hmmmmmmmmmmm. If Ford ever updates the Expedition Max so it's not 12yrs old and outdated, I might just trade the Yukon in and get out of the mess!

Here's something to consider. Every generation the big three try to one-up the others with bigger numbers. Bigger numbers sell trucks. More horsepower. More torque. More trailer towing capacity. More payload. So, along comes GM's latest half-ton offering. Consider the crew cab, short box, 4wd version: Payload = 1790lb and 2210lb with the Max package. Trailering capacity = 9200lb and 11,800lb with the Max package. 11,800?? For a half ton? Are you fricken kidding! My 1998 Z71 Silverado had a trailer tow capacity of 7500lb and a payload of about 1500lb. So, these new trucks have as hit load more capacity. At what expense? Ride quality, especially when unloaded, maybe? Remember the old days, when a 1 ton rode like it had no suspension at all, until you loaded it up. Rough as hell. How do you think GM gets the higher load capacities? Yea, I understand higher strength steel and all that. But, stiffer suspensions, combined with stiffer frames and bodies add up to one thing, and one thing only - no energy absorption. Every vibration gets passes along when you make something light and stiff. And that's exactly what these new trucks (and SUVs) are. And we feel it all. The ride gets very "bouncy". I remember my 98 Silverado. Had kind of a choppy ride when it was unloaded. Load it up and it rode great. My 2005 2500HD Duramax was the same, only more so. My current 2011 F350 Superduty is the similar. And yes, the seat passenger seat jiggles enough that I can see it when no one is sitting in it and the truck is completely unloaded. Load it up, and everything calms down. And, the 1 ton weighs about 2000lb more than the half tons, so can dampen (absorb) some of of the normal vibrations. I'm not saying the new trucks are normal. Or right. GM owes us better. But, we might be up against the wall here. Here's a question for everyone experiencing the various vibrations issues - does your truck exhibit the same behaviour when you load it up to it's maximum payload? Has anyone tried? Because somewhere along the line, buying a truck capable of towing an 11,800lb trailer to get groceries and still be light enough to get great mileage just might come with some compromises. We expect, and deserve, more, but that might be where GM dropped the ball. (FYI, there is one fellow in the HD forum on this website who has reported that his HD has some vibration but when he's pulling his trailer, it's smooth as silk!)

Interesting that your rentals have been noise free. The three rentals I've had all had the noise. All three had slightly different magnitude, but basically they all did it. Your experience is noteworthy.

I believe there have been a couple of cases of the vibration being solved by installing a complete new rear end, housing and all. I suspect that is the real problem, not tires. Exactly what, I'm not sure. But, I bought a digital electronic level and I am going to check the u-joint angles myself to see if they are right. My dealer said they checked them, but I don't trust anyone anymore so will do it myself. As soon as I get a free minute.

Where are these "flaps" on these Chevy/GMC's?

Probably better if they had a whole brain instead of a half! LOL!

Very interesting. I think there have been reports of replacing crown and pinions (on this thread and the SUV thread) and it not helping, but you had the entire rear end housing replaced. That's a whole other situation! Seems to me there was an early report of doing the same on an SUV on a different website, and it solved the issues with the SUV's (booming/buffeting/vibration). So, this may be on to something.

Time for an update. Ours went to the dealer week before last because the fuel pump died. While it was there, they loosened all the body mounts, which I had them do the very first time I took it in to make sure the mounts were neutralized (in their neutral position). Didn't make any difference that time, but this time, they actually took the vehicle out and drove it with the mounts loose, then torqued them back up. Guess what....it made a difference. Now, don't get excited, problem not solved. Still booms like crazy over all bumps, big or small, at all speeds, slow or fast. But, the buffeting and pressure are pretty much gone at highway speeds. I say pretty much because rough road/bumps at highway speed will induce the buffeting, but there doesn't seem to be much pressure. At least not like before. And we've been driving it for over a week and it's been pretty much consistent. The point? The body mounts are part of the problem. Or at least, are indicative of the transfer path involved in the problem of buffeting and pressure. At least we really don't suffer from the pressure driving down the highway now, so it's tolerable while GM continues to work on it. I still maintain the vehicle seems to have a heightened sensitivity to any and all forces that "jar" the body, so at the end of the day trying to remove those is futile. There will always be bumps in the road, and the tires will always degrade slightly. The real solution is to de-tune the thing that is vibrating/resonating, whatever it is. And I haven't zeroed in on that....yet!

Might not be so much that the vibration is "moving" from back to front as it emanating from the back, and as it grows in intensity it first sets off things closest to it in the back and then starts to set off things vibration further away, up front, like the console. Let me ask a question, once the console starts to shake, does the rattle in the back go away? Does the vibration in the back go away? Hard to tell since you're sitting up front! But you observation that the rattle starts in the rear then the vibration comes to the front does suggest the source of the vibration is in the rear, and it also grows in intensity instead of being full on instantly. Which somewhat makes sense relative to it not being there all the time in the first place. Again, takes me back to some kind of phasing going on.

Well, generally, vibration predominantly felt in the steering wheel is coming from the front end - front wheels/tires, front suspension, front drivetrain if 4wd or FWD. Vibration mostly felt in the floor, seat, etc, is from the powertrain (engine, transmission, driveshaft, rear end), rear tires.wheels, rear suspesion. The auto industry using this as a means of troubleshooting and it is relatively logical. But, transmisibility of vibration (and noise) can be infinitely complex, and such a basic approach can, and often does, fall short. The fact that the vibration is not always present, at a given speed, suggests a fairly complex issue. Beyond out-of-balance, out-of-round, or even basic resonances. I shared this comment some time ago on this thread, but I will do it again. Our Yukon XL definitely has some vibration felt in the steering wheel and the seats. I can even see the passenger seat shaking while driving on smooth highway at 60 mph. But here are a few other key observations: - the vibration is consistantly there. Worse as speed increases, but always there. - the vibration felt in the steering wheel is much worse when the vehicle is in 4 WD Auto, compared to 2WD. In 2wd, hardly notice anything in the steering. - I don't recall the console shaking. It's also interesting that thye SUV's have a totalling different rear suspension then the pickups. Yet both have the vibration issue. So, rear suspension probaly isn't at play. Although, one could turn that around and say the different rear suspension accounts for the slight difference in the way the vibrations are being observed between the pickups and the SUV (mine, specifically). Just a common on the driveshaft. I agree that it is unlikely the culprit on a vehicle where the vibration is not always present at a given speed. But, couple comments on that: - driveshaft couple be involved if it is going in and out of phase (sync) with something else (like tires or differential gears), - concluding that its not the driveshaft because GM replaced the driveshaft on a given vehicle and the problem is still there is NOT proof in itself, because the driveshaft came from the same place that made the first driveshaft! Without knowing very specific information about both driveshafts, one has no way of knowing if the orignal "bad" one was simply replaced twith another "bad" one. Especially if what makes it "bad" is not something very obvious tot he installer. Let me ask a question - did the mechanical do a complete inspection of the new driveshaft (runout, balance, etc) before installing it? I guarantee not. They have very limited time alloted to do these warranty fixes and will take it out of the box and install it. Period. Remember, most shops work on flat rate and GM pays 'f-all for time. Probably give the guy 15 minutes to swap a driveshaft. And, in most flat rate shops, if the mechanic takes longer to do it, he eats that time personally! So, leaves us owners pretty exposed to no one "going the extra mile" to figure out what is going on. I sometimes wonder if I'd be better off taking it in, telling them I want it fixed but not under warranty but I'll pay whatever hours it takes. I bet they'd figure it out! Problem is, do I want THAT bill??

Couple things to consider regarding the "dot" mark on a tire. First, I've read that a coloured dot on a tire is no longer a universal indicator of the "heavy" spot, even though it used to be. Different tire manufacturers use a different colour, and it can mean something different/unique to them. So, you would need to find out from that brand what the red dot means. Second, yes, in the old days, supposedly the dot meant the heavy spot (or light spot, not sure which), and then the wheel manufacturer was supposed to put the valve stem at the opposite, so that the installer could simply match the dot to the valve stem and most of the unbalance would be cancelled out. However, apparently nowadays, the car manufacturers use something like a Hunter Road Force balancer when the mount tires for new cars and will index the tires exactly where the most optimal spot is. At least, according to the stuff I've read on line. Third, do some research on "tire uniformity". That's what this is all about. Very interesting, indeed. Fourth, tire slip may be a factor here. GM has a TSB that addresses it, and it would be interesting to see how much slip is happening to vehicles that seems to change behaviour. Here's a suggestion - mark you tires at the valve stem and see if they are slipping. I could see it happening right after mounting, because that snot they use these days to help mount the tires is EXTEMELY slippery. But after awhile, I'm not so sure. Fourth - have you had yours Road Force Balanced on a Hunter machine? Some GM dealers have a GM branded tire balancer that is built by Hunter and is essentially the same as the GSP9700 that Hunter sells under it's own brand. Either way, simply having a shop say they did a "Road Force Balance" doesn't mean jack if they don't do it right. A lot of steps involved and I've watched it being done - to do a full on RFB on 4 wheels and tires takes the better part of 3 or 4 hours! And he is the kicker - even after doing the full-on RFB, if there is a bad tire or wheel, it can't be magically corrected by the machine. All the machine can actually do is mix and match bad wheel with bad tires to cancel out the out-of-round and non-uniformities. But, if there isn't enough cancellation to be had, then the final result is still bad Road Forve Variation. So, always ask for a printout of the final Road Forve Variation readings. For example, say all four wheels are perfect. If there is bad non-uniformity in the tires, there is nothing that can be done to eliminate it, short of either shaving the tire tread, or new tires. Weight balance is totally separate from RFB and is done at the end. So, RFB isn't always the fix. Can only measure what's there in some cases. All that said, if the vibration is not always present, then it's doesn't SEM to make sense that it's in the wheel/tire assembly unless the tires are somehow changing as you drive. I could see the odd tire having an internal defect where a steel or nylon belt is squirming around, changing the tires uniformity characteristics, but almost impossible to believe it's happening on a large scale across the entire GM pickup line, across multiple tire brands. Just doesn't make sense.

Well, swapping the tires certainly tells a lot. Now, you know that your wheels and tires are NOT the problem. So, no point wasting time and money balancing, new tires, all that crap. Has the dealer taken any vibration readings? That will tell what frequency the vibration is at, which can help point them in the right direction - engine, driveshaft, differential, axles. Since you know it's not the wheels and tires, can continue on the list. If they haven't taken vibration readings, they should. If the vibration comes and goes, then there is some kind of phasing going on. That means there are at least 2 components interacting to cause the vibration and they can/do go in and out of phase. I posted a bit more explanation a while back, but I'd be looking seriously at systems and components that can do that. (An example would be two tires out of balance on the same axle. When the heavy spots line up, the vehicle shakes like crazy because weights are working together. Going around corners, the inside turns slower then the outside, so they go out of phase, and when one is exactly opposite the other, they can cancel out. ) Personally, I think a big issue with this new generation platform is the body mounts GM is using. They went to what's called "shear" mounts. In a nutshell, shear type mounts are extremely stiff in one axis, and softer in the perpendicular axis. In this case, very stiff laterally (horizontally) and softer vertically. The idea was to reduce the amount of sideways "jiggle" that body-on-frame vehicles have that unibody vehicles don't. The problem is, they've Increased the vibration transmissibility path in the horizontal direction. And, any vibration generation by the rotating parts in the driveline produce not only vertical vibration, but also horizontal. So, I believe it's the horizontal component of the vibration that is getting into the body via the body mounts. Why did that other truck not vibrate? I suspect yours does have a issue causing the vibration to be generated. Something like driveshaft runout, driveshaft balance, crown and pinion meshing issue, bent axle, wheel hub runout.... The list goes on. But, with the stiff body mounts, it doesn't get hidden anymore. Perhaps the rest of the vehicle just isn't up to the task of a stiffer body mount. Perhaps GM engineers just don't know what it takes to build it smooth enough to be on stiffer mounts. Actually I take that back - obviously GM doesn't know, otherwise there wouldn't be so many people having this problem. At least it isn't an ignition switch defect that is lethal.

You lost me. If the Malibu does not have ANC, and the Malibu creates the ear pressure, how does that prove that the "sound reduction" ANC system is creating the ear pressure?? Seems to be the opposite. And, the ATS likely has ANC and didn't create the ear pressure, so again, and opposite conclusion. Or am I missing something? We've had a Tahoe and a Suburban as rentals, neither one equipped with ANC, and both had the booming sound and created the ear pressure.

Absolutely yes! We had a rental Suburban for a week and it definitely had the booming and pressure.

Danny, Do yourself a BIG favour and go test drive an Acura MDX. There are substantially bigger inside then they look. They are wide and the recent update is slightly longer than the previous, which we had and loved. Excellent vehicle though and through, and there is no better value on the market. If you only have 2 kids, it is a perfect vehicle. Trust me - take a tape measure along and you will be shocked at the interior volume. One of the few SUV's that a set of golf clubs will sit completely cross-ways in the rear, between the weelwells - not angled or raised up at one end like in most SUV's (including the Mercedes GL!!) As for the 2016's....no idea. I wouldn;t hold my breath. Took GM well into the 2nd model year to fix the vibration issue on the 1999 pickups, so this issue is far from over. Good luck!

Jeez, I wonder why if it's such a great vehicle??? LOL!

Yea, I've had 2 rentals, one a Suburban and the other a Tahoe, and one for sure was built after Jan 1 and definitely both had the noise issue.

One has to wonder at what point dealerships who state that "they have never heard of this problem" become legally liable or criminally culpable at some level. Begins to sound a lot like fraudulent actions, to me. I realize that the sales guys try to stay as far away from the service department as they can, but still, would be interesting to get some investigative news show to go undercover with several potential buyers and test drive these things with the same salesmen to see what they say when its pointed out. Would make a great Youtube!! Maybe we all chip in a few bucks and take out a couple "advertorials".

Well, if you really want to take this to the next level, there is always "native advertising" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_advertising) or "advertorials" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advertorial). I recently watched a special on TV about how much native advertising websites like Buzzfeed do these days. The advertisements read like an actual article, so many readers can't tell the difference. Supposedly, even the New York Times is in on it. So, a couple of well placed "native advertisements" would get the story out to the public.There is some legal concern, I'm sure, but I would think that as long as a person simply tells their own story, about their own vehicle, there can't be anything wrong with that. But that's only my opinion, not legal advice!! It would seem that Lemon Law actions and BBB complaints are another useful tool. These show up on the manufacturers stats, and they likely pay attention to that. I wonder if Consumer Reports has any means of dealing with consumer complaints? A lot of people use CR to shop for big purchases and it's fairly trusted.

Yes, our Yukon has more vibration in the steering wheel and seat when the system is in 4 Auto then in 2 WD. That said, there is still some vibration when in 2 WD, so not sure what that means....

This seems to be the only logical thing to conclude, right. After all, if all/most of those 1200 per day had these problems, the dealerships would be jammed full of returns and GM would have a huge mess on their hands, right? Except, there is something that doesn't add up. If the above is indeed true, then that would mean that the vehicles exhibiting the problems have something that is correctable - a broken part(s), something out of adjustment or alignment, something not assembled correctly. And the fix should be a simple matter of putting that "whatever it is" in the same condition as all those thousands of vehicles that are OK. Except, after almost a year, GM has yet to fix a vehicle! So, the only logical conclusion is either all the vehicles have some common defect, or GM is super-incompetent. Take your pick! Bottom line is that there have been many reports of vehicles that seemed OK at first and after several hundred or thousand miles, the problems start. Finding a "good" one on a test drive is for all intents and purposes absolutely meaningless. You'll be rolling the dice. So, you have to ask yourself something....do you feel lucky? Well, do you? ( I won't add the last word...Lol) All I can say is good luck. If I had it to do over, there is no way I would take a chance. I would at least wait until there is a known, proven fix. If waiting wasn't an option, I'd go to another brand. Wasted way to much time, energy and sweat equity on something GM should have had sorted out to begin with. Will definitely be the last GM I ever own!

Something interesting about PIT5318. I have found a couple of websites with GM service bulletins listed. While it shows PIT5318 listed, the link is always dead when I try to open it. All the other links to various bulletins work, but not that one. And, on a couple of different websites. Weird, eh? I doubt it's a coincidence. Perhaps GM is trying to avoid it getting out because of legal action coming at them?

I did a search and there doesn't appear to be an aftermarket replacement for the shocks on the vehicles equipped with the Magnetic ride suspension. However, Bilstien does list shocks for the non-Magnetic ride version in the 2015's and a set of 4 is around $400 depending where you buy them. On my list of things to try eventually is to through a set on and see what happens! I'll tie-wrap the wiring harness for the electronic version something and see what happens. But, I've had two 2015 rentals (while ours was in the dealership) that did not have the Magnetic ride suspension and both of those had all the same noises as ours. So, I don't think it's the Electronically controlled damping itself that is the problem. It certainly could be the base damping used in both versions of the shocks, though. Could be too stiff. I read an interesting article on shock absorbers on the weekend. Seems that the latest and greatest in shock absorber technology is shocks that dampen immediately upon any movement, instead of older designs that had to move many millimetres before getting stiff. Hmmmm. Perhaps In GM's quest to modernize the ride, they have installed "too good" a shock absorber? There is no question the wrong shock absorber can mess up a suspension's performance and the ride quality big time. And more refined the suspension, the more this is the case. The other thing that concerns me is that GM made the springs too stiff. Again, trying to give a more solid ride and remove the "lumbering" feeling of a large, body-on-frame pickup based vehicle with a high center of gravity, they may have gone too far. So, softer tires, softer springs, and softer shock absorbers.

There is no question the "booming" noise is worse in V4 mode, but it still notice it in V8 mode as well. My take on it is that any and all "impact" forces that go into the chassis and body result in noises being generated. So, he extra vibration generated in V4 mode makes the situation worse. As does the stiffer tires and suspension. And so on, and so on. Basically, a bad situation made worse. In addition, I did some testing on the highway by putting it in manual and dropping a gear and the "Buffeting/pressure" did not change. Haven't played around with manual mode at lower speed to see what it does to the booming, but I did seem to notice that when I accelerate hard, the booming seems to go away?? Hmmmm. Be interesting to take a test drive with the exhaust flapper valve forced open.

Interesting observation. Consider this...if there is some unbalance in the tires, wheels, or axles on both sides of the vehicle, then the "phasing" of them side to side can greatly affect the total vibration felt. When the unbalance force is "in phase", it is usually much higher then what they are opposite to each out (out of phase). When they are opposite, they tend to cancel each other out. Now, because the outside wheel turns faster when going around corners, the wheels side to side will constantly be changing phase to each other. Could explain what you are observing. I had an 86 Vette with a vibration I never did get rid of that you could feel the vibration come in and out of phase on long, sweeping, corners on the highway.