econometrics

Yeah, I’ve watched carefully on the ZR2 and AT4X/Ultimate reveals and the rear window and spoiler structure looks unchanged to the naked eye. Not very encouraging. But then again, I cannot possibly see how GM wouldn’t address it on the refresh with all of the issues people were having.

So stupid that it’s a refreshed 2022 and we still don’t have pano sunroofs on the GM trucks. WTH. Even the new Tundra does!

AT4 starts at $60K still, tho. They’re selling AT4X as a loaded AT4 with quite a few extra interior specs that are not going to be on the ZR2. It’s clear from tonight’s release that GMC wants to be THE luxury truck brand.

I've been mostly ignoring my creaky leaf springs for a while now, but didn't realize I could buy such a simple fix. Just put in an order online for this kit. Nice!

Bingo. What Toyota just released with the new Tundra shows there's a move away from displacement, and towards forced air torque/HP gains. I also feel that a lacking supercharged 6.2L Vortec almost shows GM has no R&D interest in investing in that powertrain any further. The future is electric and lower displacement, forced air powertrains with higher MPG averages. Whether we like it, or not. With that in mind, I'm eager to buy a ZR2 and nab a 6.2 while I still can. That's more than enough power for me, with the true V8 growl to go with it. I'll take less torque/HP for the sound of a V8 exhaust over an Ecoboost sound-modded Raptor any day. (The TRX is a whole 'nother story. I'm just excluding her... as it's an MPG dog that is not a realistic daily driver for me.)

I think you're in the minority for wanting invisible exhaust. I like the T1 exhaust ports. At least they do not look silly with the round cutouts like RAM and the new F150 Tremor. And much better than having something hanging down from the sides behind the rear wheel. The donkey-end of the T1s is so large, that having those exhaust port breaks it all up a little, IMO.

I see GM Authority caught a ZR2 testing in a silver color... and with a standard dual exhaust bumper. Looks so funny.

Yeah this, to be, was the most odd decision on the ZR2. It really saves you little to nothing on ground clearance. What do the OEM squished exhaust ports really add to the departure angle right now? .5º? It's like 3/4" or something. Plus, a bad-A off road truck like this with NO noticeable rear exhaust?! So weird! If they wanted to take away the LOOK of dual exhaust, I hoped they would at least add the GMPE as a standard option for the catback growl.

What's going to be the main differences from a fully loaded LT TB and the ZR2? That's what is left to be determined here. It's possible they will cut down the options on the LT TB to make space for the ZR2. Right now, it seems the main upgrades with the ZR2 are only: 1" more of ground clearance due to 33" tires vs 32" (probably negligible in price, for the most part) Electronic lockers DSSV shocks Ventilated seats, rear camera mirror, HUD So I guess I don't see how that would make the ZR2 $5K more in MSRP than the LT TB fully loaded. I think that's the point we're all making... the ZR2 is great, but it's not "next level" like a TRX or Raptor... so it won't be priced anywhere near that.

The new cluster and infotainment is a nonstarter for changing the MSRP, because the LT has the same dash and center stack as a base HC (or ZR2) My point is TFL said the ZR2 comes with ONE trim option - multiflex tailgate. All other items (vented seats, HUD, etc) are standard. Can you load out an LTZ currently to price out a base HC? Yes. But with GM still selling an AT4 (and presumably an AT4X), they won’t crowd the pricing on the ZR2 to compete with the AT4. All said, I don’t think the ZR2 will MSRP for more than $60K. And most of the major media coverage is saying $55K starting.

That's very improbable. It cannot cost more than a HC, and the HC isn't going to leap up that much in one year just with a new interior (that is also available on an LT trim).

I think it’s very probable.

Totally agree. After the ZR2 launch, and seeing how fully-loaded it is (I believe TFL said the only option on it was the multiflex tailgate?!), I am now VERY curious what the AT4 and AT4X is going to offer. Because the ZR2 just jumped into the AT4's shoes (and then some).

ZR2 has HUD and ventilated seats. Watch the TFL video on it, you'll see the switches for them both. I believe it also has the camera mirror. The only thing it will not have that the HC will is Super Cruise and some improved wood in the interior, it seems.

Very smart, indeed. Before the ZR2 announcement, I was shopping for an AT4 for the interior tech it had above and beyond the TB. But the price kept me on the sidelines, TBH. With the ZR2, I’m ready to pay for it all. But I am positive the AT4X is going to be Denali-level with off-road tech.

Nice. I have one truck. And most people are in the same camp as me. This is the beauty of a consumer economy… you can have 2 Jeep’s for your needs, others can have one truck for theirs.

Bingo. For a novice off-roader like me, having a truck with a generous approach angle, full lockers and good shocks will do 100% of what I would ever want it to.

The world is not "either / or" when it comes to off-roading. There are plenty of amazing, moderately challenging trails that are completely well-suited for a strongly-equipped truck with a longer wheelbase. Imogene Pass comes to mind, as does the majority of the Alpine Loop in CO. Would a Jeep do better on these trails? Sure. But can a well-equipped truck like the Raptor/TRX/ZR2 also do well on them? Yes. 90% of the time, I need a truck in life. But I sure love being able to take vacations in the mountains and drive my own vehicle off road on these trails. It's just rewarding to take your own rig out on the trail. So why not buy something that can handle moderate trail running, but can also tow your boat around, and can also haul stuff, and can also comfortably sit 4-5 people for a long road trip? Thousands of us decide we want to do that each year as truck owners. And thousands others value the benefits of a Jeep. There's no "> / <" here.

This is just a rendering, and it's not accurate. It still has the old grille, just moved the bowtie up. The LED signatures are also wrong on this rendering. It was a good guess, though. The pic in the image on the ZR2 digital dash is for sure what the LTZ will look like.

Adding onto my comment above, I think the "flowtie" of the ZR2 looks best on this new front end because it's hallow... so it does not stick out as sorely as the yellow bow tie on the LT/LTZ and HC will. I think the black on the TB and RST won't look as odd.

I like the "enhanced" front end for the main reason that GM finally combined the DRL and the turnsignal (like they did with the SUVs). It looks good. Hopefully the headlight throw / pattern will be a little better off the periphery, which is why GM got dinged on the safety ratings for the T1s. But the placement of the bowtie just screams "Hey, look... we changed the truck!". It's so odd to put it ABOVE the center crossbar / line on the grill. I don't think it looks terrible, but I don't think it looks good, either. It just looks like they wanted people to be able to quickly tell someone was driving a 2022 vs. a 2019-2021. And I don't totally blame them for that... because the 2021 F150 is so similar to the previous F150, I feel bad for people paying money to upgrade... because the average Joe would never be able to know it was a "new" truck.

Car and Driver thinks it will weigh in around $55K to start. I think that’s close to accurate. My guess was closer to $60K. For what you’re getting with the ZR2, that’s a good price. I think it’s smart to sell something $10K cheaper than the Raptor and TRX, knowing it’s not either of those. I’d personally rather have a $55K non supercharged ZR2 vs a $70K alternative for a little more punch in the pedal.

Glad you’re staying around here on the forum. It’s always nice to have your input. Does the TRX rear window leak?!

This is the true shocker of the ZR2. I cannot believe GM finally figured out the G80 is not a friendly locker for being off-road. ...and adding the front locker... wow. I'm excited to have this just to have TRUE 4x4 again, even for getting around in normal conditions.

The improved lift is just from the 33's. That's what TFL said.