JMO76

I'm guessing for many aftermarket companies it would be a liability issue. With a large chunk of the vehicles systems & settings going through the infotainment system, if anything gets messed up, they're on the hook for a $30k-$100k vehicle not working right. Especially now that many auto manufacturers going to buttonless dash panels, that would mean things like HVAC, lights, 4wd, etc would have to be managed by the aftermarket radio. And since the aftermarket radios can go in any vehicle, you're dealing with different auto manufacturers setups, with many manufacturers have different setups for different models, all of which change almost yearly, you're looking at a ton of different interfaces the radios would have to support. The auto manufacturers aren't going to help aftermarket companies with it, so I wonder if it's really worth it for them to even go that route. It's certainly not a simple thing to do, and in reality, how much of the buying public is going to actually want it. The ones who change the stereo to the extent we do is probably a fraction of a percentage.

That's fine for the HD models, but that isn't an option for the 1500 series, which I imagine is what most of the people posting in this thread have. Go to iDatalink's website & search for a 2019-2020 GMC or Chevy 1500. There isn't an option for it, because they don't make anything for the half ton trucks for 2019 or newer. The reason being GM changed the system in comparison to the 2014-2018 GM 1500 trucks. The HD series is still the same though, which is why that works for your vehicle. I'm guessing the next time GM changes the HD models, you won't be able to replace the headunits in them either.

I did some looking at PAC Audio's website and for the Sierra HD (2500 & 3500) the 2015 & 2019 both use the same interfaces, so apparently more than the 2 years I stated above. But in terms of upgrades/changes to the systems, the 1500 trucks get them first, followed by the HDs a few years later. I did some more looking on Pac's website & for the HD trucks, they don't show an option for 2020 in the Sierra, but they do for the Silverado. But going to the '20 Silverado HD, all they list are speaker baffles. So I don't know if GM changed the audio systems in the 2020 HD models, or that PAC Audio just hasn't gotten around to working on them.

I've never emailed them, I always call them since I don't prefer to type and I also don't have to do several back & forth emails that can usually be accomplished with one phone call. I also have a toggle switch installed but so far haven't had to use it. My trips range from once a week to a nearby town about 30 miles away to monthly or sometimes bi monthly trips to a larger city about 80 miles away. In either case the stereo is running the entire time. As for requiring advanced electronics training to get it to work, this isn't something simple like an amplifier or line out converter. This is essentially a digital to analog converter, something that you only used to see inside CD players. When I went to school for electronics, I remember my instructor telling me about being at a trade show when the first CD players came out. He said with everything that needs to happen to get audio out to the sound system, it shouldn't work as well as it did. And back then, many times it didn't as early CD players had quite a few quirks/issues. Add to that that this device is engineered with no help from the manufacturer so they're kinda flying blind. But make no mistake, this is delicate & complicated hardware, and when there are issues, it's not meant for non technical people to deal with. Just as with the vehicles themselves, these auto manufacturers have engineered them so that most people can't deal with issues they have. Even prior to computers in vehicles, there was a good chunk of the population that weren't able to even service their own vehicles. But getting back to the matter at hand, it just baffles me why the OEMs couldn't just have a pair of front & rear RCA's for customers to hookup after market equipment, it wouldn't be that costly when you consider the cost of these trucks, and would make things millions of times easier. But considering they're even making it impossible anymore to adjust the onboard computer for tuning the fuel injection/timing on these engines, that will never happen. As for what you should do, I would call them instead of emailing, that way any questions you have can be answered right away & vice versa, & any new questions that come up in the conversation can be as well. I'd also advise not getting angry or yelling, but make sure they understand that you've spent a good chunk of change and expect it to work. If they can't do that ask for a refund & if they say they can't, I usually threaten to contact either the Better Business Bureau or my local state's attorney, both of which are there to protect consumers in such matters. You can even mention posting your experience with them to forums such as these, because no company wants bad PR and it would undoubtedly cost them some potential sales. While it may not fix your issue, getting a refund at least means you won't be out the $600 for their product. As for alternative products, there's JL Audio's Fix 82 for adding a subwoofer (2 channel outputs) or Fix 86 if you want add amplifiers for all your speakers (6 channel outputs). They convert the speaker level output from the Bose amp to line level to feed aftermarket amps. The JL Audio pieces are nice in that they are able to eliminate any time delay, crossover, & equalization modifications implemented by the Bose system. You can also go with products from Audio Control which also convert speaker level to line level, but any modifications to the audio signal made by the Bose amp will still be present, so you might be fighting with that. In either case, it won't be as clean if a signal as what the Nav-TV has, because you're taking a speaker level signal down to line level, then re-amplifying it, which will introduce some noise into the system. I'm not familiar with any other products that convert the digital Can-Bus to analog audio like the Nav-TV does, except for PAC Audio's Amp-Pro line, but last I checked they don't have anything for the 2019 & newer GM 1500 series trucks (they do have one for the 2500 & 3500 series trucks, but they apparently still use the same setup as the previous generation). That's all I can tell you on the matter. Good luck.

Is yours a 2019 or 2020? I know from PAC Audio's website that the 2019 Silverado HD (2500/3500) still use the same interface as the previous years. They don't list hardly anything for the 2020, but I'd imagine it's the same, the HDs are usually 2 years behind in terms of changing the audio systems & interfaces. That's why you were able to swap out the radio. Talked with a few places (install shops & aftermarket stereo companies) and they're saying they don't expect to be able to swap out radios on future vehicles because GM keeps running more & more essential functions through them.

I don't have any system off pops. I've had those in the past, usually caused by a ground loop & using a ground loop isolator or a 12V relay on the remote turn on wire solves the issue. Nav-TV does recommend using one in the manual, & I would've anyway as I'm turning on both an amp and a cooling fan, so maybe that's why I don't have the turn off pops issue. I do have some audio squeal from the speakers, but only with the volume all the way up and the music paused, even then you have to strain to hear it. It almost sounds like the old radio squeal when you'd try to tune in a radio station. I'm guessing it's a byproduct of the digital to analog conversion. As for the chime delay, it seems to be about 2 seconds from door open to my cooling fan kicking on and the chime tones activating. So far haven't had any issues with losing audio or it just outright dying, so knock on wood. The engineer at Nav-TV told me they had chips from their supplier that had 2 different tolerance specs. Some were on spec, some were in tolerance, meaning their we close to spec but a little bit off. They have software patches for each, but since they're not easy to identify without hooking them up to testing equipment, they'd have to try one patch & if it doesn't fix the issue try the other one. Some may argue they should've forced the supplier to supply them with the correct on spec chips, but unless you're a large company, you're at the mercy of the chip suppliers. That or you'll pay a ton to get tighter tolerances in my experiences.

I posted a reply earlier but apparently the forum ate it, so I'll try again. Or I have experience in both electronics and manufacturing custom electronics solutions (in my case, in commercial buildings). Having a bad batch of electronic components happens quite frequently. And it's not necessarily that they're completely bad, either. All electronics components have a tolerance eating, ranging from 1% to 20% of what it's rated at. So a 10 ohm resistor for example could be as much as 2 ohms off (8 ohms or 12 ohms), which depending on the circuit could drastically alter it's operation. For hobbyist electronics tolerances are fairly high, but for complex or important devices it needs to be very low, say like in the defense or healthcare industry. In Nav-TV's device, it needs to have tight tolerances for proper operation and the component provider shipped them something looser than they wanted, which is causing intermittent issues. And from now on, drop the condescension from your posts. Just because someone doesn't agree with you on this matter, or any for that matter, it doesn't mean they have an ulterior motive and work for who you're railing against. It just means maybe they have more experience or knowledge on the matter than you do. But I have had that accusation leveled at me before (you must work for them). If that were true, then I not only work for Nav-TV, but also for Google, Elemental Designs, Chevy, GMC, Marvel or DC depending on the argument, and the list goes on. Apparently that's becoming a thing now, "Don't agree with me, you must work for them" because the only other explanation would be that you're wrong, and that just NOT possible. We spoke before I installed the device when I was asking how people who had them were fairing with them and their thoughts on it. That was several months ago. So do you really think an employee of the company would make posts like that, wait several months and then make it sound like they'd bought it & so far had a good experience with it? No, they wait a week or two & then rave about it. The reason I waited to install it was because the shop I wanted to use kept having employees come down with Covid, & I had to wait for JL Audio to build a stealthbox, which apparently they do for all their stealthboxes. They don't make them & put them on a shelf ahead of time, but make them after an order comes in, which takes around 4-5 weeks from order to delivery. Add to that I live in the middle of South Dakota, so it's doubtful I also work for Nav-TV. In fact I'd never heard of them until this board. I was going to use a JL Audio Fix86 to reshape the sound, but this appeared to be a better option, especially since PAC Audio hasn't put out anything for these trucks.

Going by the number of people on here who have them vs the number having major issues, it doesn't appear to be widespread. It's frustrating for sure to spend that kind of money and have it not work, but it's not like this is a simple device either, and there's most certainly no help from GM to develop it, as they seem to be on anti-modification year as of late. As I believe I explained in a past post, according to one of their engineers they had a run of chips they ordered that while not out of spec, weren't made specific to what they ordered. In other words, they were in tolerance, but for a device as sensitive as this, just being in tolerance isn't good enough and can cause issues. And there was no way to identify the difference between which chips were on spec & which were in tolerance by looking at them. So it would be possible to have two devices in a row that had issues. I know it doesn't change your circumstances, but custom devices like this are much more complicated than an amp or a DSP, so there's going to be a greater chance of issues.

I've had mine in for almost 2 weeks and it's still going. Maybe you just had a bad unit. It happens from time to time with anything.

I looked yesterday for a chime tone volume adjustment but didn't see it & was wondering if they even had one. After reading your post I checked again & it was under the Vehicle tab instead of the System tab. It was at the halfway mark so I put it to around 2/3 - 3/4 & it's audible now. So thanks Dakkine2 for that. Something I did notice though, I could've swore before that the alert tone for the Front Park Assist & Rear Cross Traffic Alert was steady before, where now it's several one second beeps. Was I imagining that or is it different with the Nav-TV installed? Perhaps they're substituting their own tone instead of passing the factory tone through.

Ok so I finally got my system mostly done in my '20 Sierra. I went with the Nav-TV unit, a Kenwood 5 ch amp, & the JL Audio stealth box. One problem I have though is that I no longer have door or warning chimes (like for Front Park Assist or Rear Cross Traffic Alert). I still obviously get the visual signals on the driver display and mirrors, but there's no sound like there was prior to installing the Nav-TV unit. I was under the impression that one of the benefits is that it kept the factory chimes as well as balance, fader, & EQ intact. Is there something that was missed in setup? I had a somewhat local shop do the install, but this was their first time using anything from Nav-TV, so I'm wondering if they missed something. Anyone else have this issue?

I was considering something similar, but using a phone to replace the USB drive I have been using. Reason being, from my last vehicle (2016 Silverado) to this one (2020 Sierra) whoever handles GM's infotainment system has thoroughly screwed it up. It's constantly indexing the files on the drive, and the file order changes pretty much every time I start the vehicle. If a folder has subfolders and music files, it doesn't put the folders at the top as normal, it mixes them in with the files, so if there are 5 mp3 files between 2 folders, it will only play those 5 files. I had none of these issues on my Silverado. Everything was in alphabetical or numerical order, files were at the top of the list, and unless I had added files to the drive, it didn't try to re-read the drive. At this point I'm thinking of putting a DSP like an Audison Bit 10 or JL Audio Fix 86 after the Bose amp to wipe out the Bose tuning and send the signal to the amp. I know that will work right now, today, not in a week from now when NavTV pushes a new update to fix whatever issue they're currently having, or a year from now when Pac Audio decides to put out something for the 2019-20 models. The PAC Audio guy told me that Covid delayed their work, but at this point the new models' setup has been out for almost 2 years now (fall of 2018 for the 2019 models), and they had access to the 2020 models for around 3 1/2 months before Covid shut down everything, so that seems like an excuse to me. These DSPs are what we used before NavTV and ampPRO was available and they worked well. I'm just sick of waiting for something that MIGHT work in the future when there's something that WILL work now. Reminds me of the old saying "wish in one hand and crap in the other, and see which gets filled first."

The reason I ask is the last person to talk about the NavTV system, Ecroofing01, essentially said don't buy them because they can't keep up with their issues. From what he's describing, it's sounds more like issues than quirks, when the unit outputs no sound. My installer suggested the ampPRO from Pac Audio, but they don't seem to be in a hurry to put out a similar product. The reason I want to get it right the first time is that I don't live in a city that I can just pop over to a shop if I'm having issues. I live about 80 miles from the nearest stereo installer and they're the only stereo shop in that city, which is the case for most of my state. There's only about 3 cities that have more than one installer, but they're about 130-200 miles away. And being without sound isn't an option. I've already replaced all the speakers except for the sub (Hertz Audio in the doors and Pioneer tweeters in the dash), and right now it sounds worse than it was stock. They're better speakers, but they're running off a signal processing that Bose did for their own speakers. So right now I have to turn the bass to about -7 just to not have it sound boomy. I had almost the exact same setup in my 2016 Silverado, and all we did was put LOC's in to feed amps with those same speakers. After I took out the sub to trade it in, the system sounded better without a sub than this one does with it. I believe that's due to Bose's signal processing. I wish GM would get away from this mindset that you shouldn't try to upgrade the sound system, or at the very least give you the option of deleting the Bose system from the package it's bundled in. There were other things in the package I wanted, just not the Bose because I knew it was going to be a headache to deal with installing an aftermarket stereo in it's place.

So are the issues still persisting with the NavTV units? I'd prefer to go with before the amp solution, but right now they're the only game in town. I just talked with Pac Audio, and they don't have anything yet for the 2019-20 GM trucks and had no idea if they'd even have anything this year. None of the other similar oems like Maestro or Metra have anything for the amplified applications. If NavTV is still having issues my only options are after amp solutions like the JL Audio Fix 86 or Audison Bit Ten.

Any update, good or bad? I'd really like to get a NAV-TV, but only if they get the issues under control, otherwise I'll have to go with a JL Audio Fix86. It looks like you've had almost 2 weeks with your replacement, still going good?

Going by my experience in car audio, roughly 30 years doing all my own installing up 'til the last couple installs (can't bend like I used to) there are a few reasons for an amp cutting out. First is wiring (either an issue with power wiring or speaker wiring). There can be hard shorts to ground that take it out immediately (blowing the fuse) or intermittent shorts that happen during movement, which happens quite a bit in a vehicle. There's also shorts between the two leads going to the speakers. Next is too large of a load connected to the amp (wiring the speaker load beyond/below the amp's limits). Some manufacturers are conservative with their amp's spec'd limits. That way if the customer does go a bit beyond the amp's limits, it will still work properly, acting like a buffer. Too high of an input signal could also cause an issue if it overloads the amp's input stage. It might blow/overheat an internal component. Or if the input stage can handle it, the signal might be clipped, aka distortion, which can take out the output stage of the amp or overdrive the speakers. That can lead to a blown voice coil or cause the speaker cone to extend beyond it's mechanical limit and get high centered on the pole piece. Then there's inadequate ventilation for the amp. An amp needs space around it for heat to be wick'd away. This can also apply to amps with built in fans as the need space to blow the heat away from the amp. This is a big issue in vehicles when amps are mounted under or behind seats where there may be little to no ventilation. My installer suggested mounting my amp behind the rear seat, but I'm not ok with that as there is little to no space around the amp back there. And if you run an amp hard it's going to be an issue. I'm guessing that may be the reason for most of the people on here having this issue. It could also explain why one amp had the issue and another doesn't, since some amps either don't run as hot or have better built in ventilation than others. Having no ventilation also causes another issue in that it will heat up the surfaces around it, which then reheats the amp in kind of a cascade effect. Lastly, it could just be an issue with the amp's internals. For example, if it has bad components in the power or amplification stage (bad transistor or IC) that could also cause it to have an issue. The only real way to know if this is the case is to swap out to another amp of the same model and see if the problem is still present. Of course if both amps came from the same batch, it's possible they could both have faulty internal components. I've seen all of these issues before, either on my own installs (bad internal components on a couple), or those of friends, even stories from installers. The key to finding out the culprit is methodical troubleshooting, trying to isolate as much of what you can, to narrow down what's in play. For example, try running the amp with no speakers hooked up and see if it still shuts down. If that's ok, you've probably eliminated the power wiring. Then hook up the speakers but keep the volume low, that should help eliminate speaker wiring and possibly tell you if the input signal is too high or not. Or if you're using 2 subs only hook up one and turn it up, that should tell you if you have too big of a load on the amp. Lastly, try to move the amp to a better ventilated area, like just sitting on the seat or the floor, that should tell you if it's a ventilation issue. Those are simple troubleshooting steps you can take, but some aren't 100% foolproof. It could still be a power issue that only appears when the amp is being used at full capacity. But eliminating as much as you can before talking to manufacturer tech support will save you time on the call, and doing it before taking it to a reputable installer can save you money. Just my $.02.

How much for just the stealthbox?

Would you consider selling the stealthbox separately?

The VX amp's input is essentially the same as an LC2i, LC7i, or any other LOC, the only difference is that it's integrated into the amp. But if the installer wired it wrong, either chose the wrong wires or hooked them up incorrectly, as Jon suspects happened in his case, the VX amp wouldn't change anything. Personally, I'd prefer to keep things like an LOC separate. I know it looks cleaner without having a bunch of different components wired together, but when everything is integrated, and one section has an issue, it takes the whole system down and is more costly to replace. Say your LOC goes down, if it's integrated, you're done, replace the whole amp. But if it's not integrated, all you need to do is replace the LOC, and whether it's a cheaper passive unit or a powered unit like an LC2i or LC7i, it will still be cheaper to replace than a VX amp. Just my $.02.

I don't know if the amp has speaker level inputs or not, but a Fix82 also allows you to get rid of Bose's changes like crossover points and time delays that are in the amp. I would question going with a 1000w amp since the sub box is only rated for 800w.

I would suggest marking where the gain is set on the amp, and then lowering it a bit at a time and see it that solves the problem. Unless you got a bad amplifier, clipping generally means that a gain is set too high. That's also a reason I was suspecting the install shop. Setting gains is not difficult, and there shouldn't be any reason they're struggling to get them set right. When I used to do my own systems in my younger years, I used to set them by ear and never had an issue with clipping. And it's not like that amp is overdriving your subs either. So to me that seems suspect.

Personally I'd suspect either the install shop or the update to the head unit. For the install shop, the original amp died while it was in their possession, and now the new amp is clipping when the volume is supposedly too high. That to me sounds like they have the gains set too high and the amp is shutting down to protect itself. When my shop did my last system, they asked me which source I listened to most (CD, USB, radio, or satellite radio) and set the level for that input (what I've noticed is that satellite radio has a stronger input signal than the other inputs, so I can't turn that one up as much as the others). Either way, it shouldn't be that hard to set the gains for that amp (unless those JL amps have oddities that require a different setup than standard amps). The only other explanation would be you're turning the head unit up higher than the shop recommends. The other cause could be the update for the head unit, and I only say that because that occured at the same time this started. I've never had a head unit that required updates (my last aftermarket head unit was about 10 years ago) so I don't have much experience with that. Just my $.02

I've got them on the Bose amp temporarily until we can put a Nav TV unit in. After that I'm going to run a Kenwood Excelon XR901-5 for the speakers and sub. It puts out 60W RMS @ 4ohms and 75W RMS @ 2ohms, so with it on the same channel as the front door speakers, that should be just about right. I read an review between the GS25sand the Model CCWR254 and he said the Morels were slightly clearer but the Audiofrogs were noticeably louder. It is a lot for them, in fact the price is almost the cost of a decent subwoofer. Never thought I'd consider spending so much on such a small speaker.

As an addendum to the above post, I got some of the speakers mixed up. The 2.75" speakers from Powerbass were the ones that looked like the factory Bose speakers. The Kenwood's seem to be a better option than the PB or Memphis Audio models in that they have a higher power handling. I also missed a model from Sundown Audio. From what I can tell, the options look to lay out like this: Memphis Audio & Powerbass both handle about 15W RMS, the Sundown and Morel both take around 30W RMS, the Kenwood's take 50W RMS, and the Audiofrogs take about 75W RMS. All are 2.75" except for the Morel and Audiofrogs which are 2.5" but may still mount in the factory holes. So if anyone has any experience with any of these, please sound off. I only have experience with the Memphis Audio models so anything is appreciated.

Here's a question for you guys. I swapped out the Bose speakers (will add Nav TV, amp, & sub soon). I used Hertz Audio Dieci 6x9s & 6.5s in the doors, and opted for just tweeters in the dash. This was the setup I used on my '16 Silverado, and that sounded pretty good. This OTOH sounds like crap. On my old truck it sounded fine powered by just the factory non Bose radio (much better after I added an amp with crossover. But on this system with the Bose amp still in place it got worse with new speakers. I think the Bose amp routes most of the mid to upper range to the dash speakers. To get any decent volume out if it, I had to turn down the bass on the radio down to about -7 so I don't blow out the speakers. Even then, it's about half as loud as before. I'm thinking about putting more of a full range speaker in the dash to get some volume back. But I tried the Memphis Audio 2.75" speakers in my old truck and they didn't sound good on the radio or the amp. Crutchfield has Kenwood 2.75" speakers but they look about the same as the Bose units I took out. So I looked at slightly smaller speakers from higher end manufacturers and the two I'm looking at are the Audiofrog GS25 and the Motel CCWR254. From what I've read the GS25s will play louder and are built stronger, but both are better options than the Memphis or Kenwood's despite being smaller. So I have 2 questions. First, anyone who has experience with these speakers, are they worth the higher price? By that I mean can they play clean and loud without crapping out? Second, for anyone who's used the GS25s, the owner's manual shows they have several mounting tabs on them (pic below), one of which is stamped GM that looks like the same mounting tabs from the factory Bose speakers (one square and one tapered, the ones at about the 1 & 6 o'clock positions in the pic). Do the mounting holes on the GM tabs align with the factory mounting holes? The cones on the GS25s are smaller (2.5" vs 2.75") so it's not very clear. I also don't know if GM has 2.5" factory speakers on other vehicles or not. Any help is appreciated.