Pacfanweb

By far, the main issue with Explorer sunroofs as far as operationally, is the sunroof motor going bad. And it goes bad because of a water leak. Drains get stopped up, motor is in the left front, water spills over into the motor and kills it. The tracks themselves, I've only replaced a few. They really don't come in for the track itself being broke. But the motors, that's almost every other one with a leak.

I replaced 2 F-150 sunroof tracks this afternoon, and an Explorer track to go with them. Explorers are pretty rare, but the 150's have loads of issues like this.

Not bad. You take the 2 coat hooks loose. Remove the C pillars. Pop the headliner down, you have to kind of get your hands up over the headliner and "help" the clips break free for the overhead light. Then you just kind of bend it down and you can get at the bolts/nuts. The TSB says replace the nuts, because the new nuts have new sealer on them...I guess they don't trust random techs all over the country to put new sealer on the old nuts, lol. But if you have enough sense to reseal the nuts, you don't need the new ones. Plus, I seal the holes from the outside while I have it off. Just makes sense to me. To seal the nuts on the inside, (which I still do even though I also seal it on the outside) I use 3M Windo Weld Ribbon Sealer, 08612. Just clip off a small piece and kind of wrap it around the stud, then run the nuts down and it's sealed forever. To prep the "channel" at the top of the window for sealer, I take a folded up blue (can get them anywhere) shop paper towel soaked in brake cleaner. Push it down in the gap and use a screwdriver or plastic interior tool to run it back and forth to get all the dirt. Note: No matter what you use for solvent, do NOT get it on the outside of the plastic trim over the sliding glass. The shiny part. It will dull it and it won't ever be shiny again. So don't let your paper towel touch that. Otherwise, it won't hurt the paint or the glass.

https://www.f150forum.com/f118/rear-window-loose-leaking-431738/ https://www.f150forum.com/f118/2015-f150-fx4-supercrew-rear-window-leaking-326564/ Multiple other links for window leaks in that thread https://www.f150forum.com/f2/2015-lariat-rear-sliding-window-leak-310443/ https://www.f150forum.com/f12/rear-power-sliding-window-top-track-loose-418676/ https://www.f150forum.com/f118/sliding-window-gap-453048/ I could keep going, but trust me when I tell you, "it's a thing". Might not be as bad as the GM truck windows, but it's significant.

It IS kind of a bandaid.....HOWEVER: If you take the time and do it with with the Kent Hi Tech Clear sealer, it should last a LONG time. Kent is great stuff. But you have to either be familiar with it as I am, or take a little extra time to "get it right" ....take a window tool (or even your little finger in a latex glove) and "work it around" to make sure it covers all the potential leak spots. IF you do that, they don't come back. I've not had a single one come back from leaking at the top of the glass where that plastic piece cracked beneath it. The TSB does say that they only "suggested" the Kent and other products might work. I think that's where you might get into trouble, if someone tries to use silicone or something else inappropriate. They might work, but they sure as hell won't look as good, as the awful pics a few posts behind this one indicate. That is TURRIBLE workmanship right there. I can't believe anyone let that go back to the customer like that. I highly recommend the Kent sealer for this. Once you put it in there, it "flows out" a bit and has a nice, shiny finish to it. Looks far better for those eagle eye folks who want to get up next to the gap and see what was done. The other thing is, the TSB only pays 1.9 hrs. I can beat that time, but you have to be humping to do it, and this is what I do. I can beat the time and you can't tell I've been there, other than your truck doesn't leak anymore...or if you stick your eye up to the gap between the window and spoiler and see the sealer. A tech in the shop who only does one here and there, he's probably not going to be able to beat the time, and not going to be happy about it, and that can affect workmanship. YMMV, as always, but it varies more with many different techs doing the same repair than if you use a specialist or glass company. But that's just my opinion.

Maybe the new GM's leak worse now. They've only had this window setup for 2 years now. (3 model years, I guess) But I am a water leak/wind noise/sunroof repair specialist, and 2 Ford dealers locally are my biggest customers, and I can tell you without hesitation that OVERALL...not just talking the back glass only, but OVERALL LEAKS, it's not even close. F150's leak like it's a contest to see how many they can have. And I love them for it. The only consistent leaks I see in GM trucks are the shark fins (pre-2019) and back glasses (now), which are turning out to be a pretty big issue. Other than that, on the GM's you only see the odd sunroof drain, or body seam, etc...same random stuff you see on anything else, but not much of it at all. F150's leak from: Sunroofs. A/C drains (these FLOOD the interior). Rear window. Rear cab vents. Roof seams. Body plugs. Combine that with the fact that their big panoramic sunroofs also break like someone gets paid for it. And that's just the things from MY area of the repair field. So yeah, the newer GM back glasses might be worse than the Fords...but overall leaks? They aren't. And I can tell you this: Since Ford went to the aluminum body and the current style back window in 2015, I've diagnosed easily over 100 of them leaking that had to be replaced. That's me, just one person, at 2 dealerships. (they are big dealerships, in fairness) You know how many F-150's there are, so if I'm seeing that many, there are a LOT. Details: On the 2015-up 150's, the sliding glass upper and lower "tracks" are GLUED to the window. Not part of the frame like they used to be. So the glue comes loose, water gets between the window and the track. Only possible repair is replace the glass. That's why they leak. I will also say, I've seen a TON of them that leak a little....but maybe that particular truck had a bigger leak from the cabin vent, so I fixed that and told them to keep an eye on the glass. But many, many of them at least "seep", and the customers don't even know it. So that's where I'm coming from when I say the GM's don't leak as much. Yeah, their back glasses might be worse, but overall, they are not.

2015-up

Ford rear windows crack and leak, too. They also leak in at the sliding window and the way it's made, you can't do anything but replace it. I've diagnosed a bunch of those. They all have problems. You just have to pick the one you want to deal with. IMO a leaking back glass pales to having to look at that arse-ugly Ram front end, or an F-150 that you can't make a turn in a 10 acre field, AND they leak terribly and their sunroofs break a lot. So all in all, I'll stick with a GM for now. I will say, my 15 Sierra at about 94k is using some oil. Too much, IMO. Gotta find a way to deal with that, or it's going to be someone else's. But the rest of it is solid.

My 15 has a sunroof. It doesn't do that, but if you open one of side windows, it does. I have no slider, either. Didn't order it that way, I bought it with just under 5k on it and that's how it was built. My visibility is WAY better than one with a slider. However, any window that causes that, be it a door, slider or sunroof window, you can just crack any other window in the truck and it goes away.

I'm going to buy some of that. Looks pretty cool. I am always on the look out for something new I can use.

I don't use silicone. You're not supposed to, although I suppose you can. I've done quite a few, and only one has returned so far. It was leaking way over on passenger side...not up top at the corner, but down a bit. Where I didn't seal it and you really can't seal it, so it got a new glass.

My guess is, it was the window the whole time. I've never seen the spoiler gaskets leak, much less 3 times on one vehicle.

Why would you yell at the service department? They didn't design it or build it. They aren't at fault. And yes, it's only the sliders that crack and leak. I've never seen one of the regular windows do it. Might be a random one somewhere, but it's certainly not a "thing". I don't see why anyone wants a sliding window in the first place. It greatly restricts your vision, AND they are really useless. The helped back when you had a single cab, but on a crew they are pointless.

The TSB tells you to replace all those nuts. Reason is, that white sealer that's applied to them. Not much of it left after removing them. There's 8 of them, and unless something's changed they come in 8 individual little bags. What a pain. I replaced them the first few times, but I don't bother now, I just put a little bit of 3M 08612 butyl on the stud and that's better than that white stuff, anyway. And I don't need to do go the parts department to get the nuts AND return the old ones, as warranty requires. There's also 2 10mm bolts (or screws if you prefer) on the outer part, but still inside the cab. So 8 studs sticking through from the outside, and 4 screws sticking through from the inside. Plus a couple more alignment clips and IIRC one more alignment stud as well. All of that stuff could leak, but I've never seen any of those places actually leak. It's always been the window.

No. It's just standard windshield urethane.

It's all I do. Self-employed, water leak, wind noise, sunroof repairs. Currently I only go to one GM dealership. The Ford dealers keep me too busy to do much more, lol

Looking at that pic, that plastic channel where you have the yellow line, that's what cracks, and then it leaks. Usually it's either cracked already in multiple places, or it's getting ready to be. Usually it leaks just as your arrows show...HOWEVER, sometimes the plastic cracks all the way and you can actually see the crack below where your yellow line is. And it'll leak right at that spot, too and won't usually run along the top of that ledge and down in the corner. I HAVE seen water come from where the orange arrow is. That's just the windshield urethane there. It's really hard to seal effectively. When I see one of those, I just tell them to put a glass in it. Back to the plastic channel: It is obviously glues to the glass. Then the urethane bead goes between it and the body. So when that plastic cracks, water runs down inside the crack and into your truck. Pretty much the same concept that the Ford trucks are dealing with as well. Except there's no getting to the top of their glasses to try and seal them. The sealer basically covers the top edge of that plastic channel, and as long as it stays adhered, it should seal it. As I've said, I have only had one come back on me...and the TSB says if the sealer doesn't work, then replace the glass. They're just trying not replace as many as possible. Can't blame them, it's roughly a 1000 dollar hit every time. So even if half of them come back, they're saving money, and getting the trucks repaired faster as well. I suppose your mileage may vary depending on who's doing the repair, as to how it looks afterwards. I strive to make it so you can't tell I've been there. I usually can find some little sign that I was there, but most others will not see it. But that's just me. Nobody's perfect.

Don't believe I would use that. I have thought about it, though. It certainly flows. Edit: the more I think about it, I don't reckon it would hurt. Kind of an expensive option, but if it works, it works. I would love to see if somebody used it, what the finished product looked like. Don't know how much is in those, it might take two of those kits to do the whole thing. That's a pretty big gap to fill. First one I did, I used just a squeeze tube of the Kent sealer. Took the whole tube. And it was a huge pain to squeeze out of there. I started buying them in caulking tubes after that. That's much easier

Never seen a spoiler leak. There are plenty of places where parts of it penetrate the cab...but never seen them leak. Whenever I have one off, I seal all of them: 8 studs attached to the spoiler that stick through the cab. 4 holes on the ends that bolts from the inside screw into the spoiler. The wiring grommet. Another blank grommet on the right, same size as the wiring. 2 smaller holes that I've never seen with anything but a plug/grommet in them. And 2 plastic "centering" clips. All those points with a hole in the cab for each of them. Yet I've yet to see any of those leak. Don't take chances when I have one off, though. I seal them all, including removing all those grommets and sealing them, too.

Don't think it's 3M. They suggest Kent Hi Tech Clear, and one other....I'd never heard of that company before I saw the TSB. Looked them up briefly and you had to register to see anything, and I never did. I'll look it up again and see how much that other product is. Interested in seeing if it's any more "flowable" than the Kent, which I wouldn't really say "flows" so much as it kind of "self levels a bit". Is a very good sealer, though.

Your mileage may vary with that. You can't tell I've been there when I do one, other than it doesn't leak anymore. But yeah, with a random dealership tech, that's a possibility, yes.

There's not really anything else they can do. It's either seal the top of the glass, or replace it. Other than actually updating the glass with an improved version, that's the only 2 options they have. And if they do make a new glass, the ones out in the field still have to be fixed eventually. The sealing the top of the glass works most of the time, and looking at it from their side: It costs them roughly a grand to replace one of these glasses. The sealing costs probably 300, max. If that only works half the time, (and it should be a lot more than that) it's saving them a ton of money. FYI, the F-150 has a similar problem with a plastic frame on the glass cracking and leaking. It's not identical to the GM glass, but the concept is similar and they have lots of leaks, too. There's no option to seal them, though. It's a new glass every time.

The Kent sealer specified by the TSB is great stuff. I've done about a dozen of these so far, only one has come back. The Permatex flowable silicone will probably work....but you'll have the glass company cussing if you need the rear glass replaced. They hate silicone. That's why I don't use it for this, although I've been tempted. The updated TSB (as of about October, iirc) suggests either the Kent High Tech Clear or another product...which I cannot remember the name of at the moment. Going to find that TSB and buy some of it and see if it's anymore flowable than the Kent. Always looking for a better product, as I use this stuff daily. If the Kent was just a little bit more flowable, you could probably squirt it through the gap between the cab spoiler and the top of the glass, but...it's not. It's advertised as "flowable", but it's more "self leveling" than actually flow. Looks great when it's done, though. I lay the bead, then smooth it with a glove on my hand, and it looks really good. This job takes me about an hour. Not too much of a pain, but you have to be careful in a few spots. I have gotten to where I don't try to seal the ones that have multiple cracks already. I just tell the dealership to replace the glass on those. That seems like the proper way for them, to me.

355hp at the crank minus a loss of 20%-ish, means 270 range at the wheels. I agree that 213 is very poor, but no stock 5.3 is going to make 300-330 at the wheels. You'd be lucky to get 330 AFTER the tune.

Are you kidding? Look at the water droplets on the bumper vs the stock camera where you can't even tell it's wet.