GDI Tech

On CEL's, you always want the cleanside pulling in MAF metered air, so as long as you are connected downstream of the MAF all air is metered.

kennerz is correct.

Has to be something routed incorrectly or a vacuum leal. If you can post pictures of all your hoses and connections, and the most important is the drain valve being closed (if so equipped). And yes, the Extreme Auto can like this is the cheap China made junk. Anyone with a welded one got one of the originals. These as soon as it freezes out I think we will see plenty popping the glued on bottom and tops off: ​ ​ These are what RXspeedworks sells so beware!!

Yes. On a CAI just do the same bridging both valve covers and run to hose from the CSS to the main air filter end or base (add barb there). Great compilation Fondupot.

Yes, when you install one of the good ones, you reduce the detonation caused by the ingestion and thus knock retard goes away (at least greatly reduced) so your timing advance can remain at optimum advance. The guarantee is 1-3 MPG average for the fleet owners that buy them, just a way for them to pay for themselves with the Elite E2-X system. Call JDP and ask if they have any E2-X specials, or Elite direct.

Brianibew is correct. Just put in the notes your vehicle. Thank henrypbui, Good info. The SM can is very good as well, the only place it falls short is the coalescing media is at the end of the flow right at the outlet and this allows some oil to be pulled off the media and out the outlet. If they move the outlet to the top of the can then that will help eliminate a good deal of that. The outlet most be 3-4 inches from any puddled oil or any media that captures the oil. Before their revision last year the media was just in the entire can with no separation, so they are making improvements.

Also, the way most install the one in fondupot's diagram is they connect the clean and the dirty sides together. This defeats all flushing and evacuation.

That is correct. Like most cans (99% plus) they are either empty or have very little true function in the design. You must take into consideration flow rate, the internal volume, both coalescing and condensation as well as how the Bernoulli and Venturi Principals are going to work against most designs. That can is just an empty can with an inlet and outlet right next to each other so 90% of the vapors simply do a quick U-turn and back out with no separation of the oil and other compounds from the vapor. Most purchase by appearance, or marketing popularity. Almost never by actual effectiveness and function. Just the can size it'self. Any less than say 12 oz's (many are 1.5-2.5 oz!) the average rate of flow will prevent all but the largest condensing droplets from being pulled through and out. The flow must slow to the point of negating the Bernoulli and Venturi effects at just the most basic. You must also ensure the incoming oil laden vapors are never mixed with the scrubbed and cleaned vapors exiting at any point inside the can. Also, even a beer can with 2 fittings popped in works at app. the same level of efficiency as most cans on the market, so although when emptied there is always some oil caught due to the condensing effect, it is only a fraction of the total passing through, so not much more than a "placebo" effect for the buyer. That is why the in depth testing ANY one can perform easily to see how poorly or how well an certain can does work. ANY over 40% effective are in the top couple percent as far as the market, and only a few reach into the 90% range with the new ELite E2-X series being at the very top. Anyone with another brand, no matter how much it cost (some are beautiful machined quality looking but actually perform very poorly), with some $500-$1100 or more! Put a Elite E2-X in line AFTER any and see. It will catch as much or more that is getting past the first one AFTER it did it's best, and then do this for the same miles in reverse with the E2-X first and the other second and see almost nothing getting past the E2-X. Here are the basic designs most are using under many brands. All of these have been used and tested for 1000 miles on the same vehicle just as I describe any of you can do: The basic nice looking can. Has site tube to see level, etc.: But inside? And even more attractive outside: But inside? Still an empty can. And a similar version to the corksport: And internally: And finally the biggest names best. priciest can: And internally: So you can see, even some of the priciest, most known names have not taken much science into account and only "assumptions" on how a machinist "thinks" would work. The last design is the most common and used in dozens of brands (made by the same 2 machine shops in FL) and it is simple to see the video of it in action with a clear bottom on youtube. Oil enters the right side and flows down the side, then is drawn up and out the left side! Only trapping a small percentage of the total. The vapors are traveling a total of app. 12" through the E2-X without mixing at any time with dirty vapors entering. 4 separate chambers, 3 separate separating and collection processes for the ultimate in effectiveness. AND, the other previous released Elite cans also will beat most any other in this test to varying degree's making them STILL some of the most effective for the $ anywhere.

Sorry have not been on for a few days, but appears fondupot got all questions answered correctly! Great job! What occurs when accelerating or at WOT when no vacuum is present for evacuation, the compounds you do not want to settle and mix with the oil are, so this not only does all described above, but also keeps your oil more contaminat free longer. The goal is to have constant evacuation at all times, and the dual valve systems do this.

The can will act as a amplifier of all noises, but did you send the pics to: [email protected]? Re-send please. Thanks!!

Transmission cooler line will be a heavier wall. Emissions should be fine and not collapse as it is designed to support vacuum. Fuel line is too soft. Make sure the checkvalves are flowing the correct direction. Away from the can.

Yes it does. Also, unlike the soft carbon deposits of the old pot injection engines these are baked on hard and crystalline and when doing a treatment the smaller hard pieces get forced between the cylinder wall and pistons causing scouring. Only if you start this from day one with a can like the ELite E2-X series just released for the GDI engines can you prevent this. And don't use a solvent based cleaner more often than 15k mile intervals as the wash down will cause damage over time. Address this at the cause and you will have years of trouble free use. And don;t cheap out on the can as most do little more than stop a fraction of the oil and other compounds causing these deposits.

Hi kenner, it is still effective as Elite states, and it is helping to reduce the coking rate. It is priced less than the most effective can due to the reasons I mentioned earlier, but you in no way wasted your $. I do agree the dealers should be more informed as well. So this thread should clear up much of the confusion.

Yes, APEX did copy the E2 pretty much exactly. And understand, most vendors are not educated techs, they are there to sell product. Any model of Elite you purchase will be heads above most any other brand. Elite is one of the few that offers varying models at different price levels. If in doubt, ask here and I can guide you as well.

Thanks Jimmy, And for the others to echo Elite Engineering, there is no "outdated" model of Elite....not sure how to better explain it, but even the base Elite is still one of the best cans you can find out there for the price! It is twice the effectiveness of most current brand cans!! Each model when compared to other brands of similar cost will exceed that other brand in it's abaility to trap and contain the oil mist you do not want ingesting, and each new model has been an improvement over the others as the need is ever evolving. But Canyonrunner, you have not been sold a system unsuitable for your truck....each Elite dealer currently offers each model, and depending when you bought yours it may have been the top model at that time and is still an excellent choice that is doing a great job as I explain in each of my posts. It would be foolish to stop selling the other models the same as say a TV maker now has a 62" so it certainly should not stop selling a 50" for those on that budget. (hope that is a proper analogy). If you look out there at 99% of the company's selling "catchcans", most will not even come close to the effectiveness of the base Elite so look at just how much care and effort Elite goes into in ongoing R&D to bring the "best" when most are still selling the same old design they have for years no matter what the advances in automotive technology are. Again, for those that have a set amount they want to spend any of the cans are a great help. The base good (far better than most cans out there period), the E2 a great step up and I have pointed out how and why, and the latest E2-X that is currently unequalled. Canyon runner, as Elite has stated, I have seen them always stand behind their various products and see no reason why they would not now. Simply send it back for a replacement or a refund, but the value of using it is great so I suggest a replacement. If it was me, I would have done so as soon as I was aware there was an issue. Also, the used market is always strong on the many forums for any Elite product if you do want the latest. Just because they are constantly striving to offer the best and constantly work on improving and staying at the "top" with so many only worried about selling and not investing in always having the best and meeting what the industry needs should create loyalty IMHO.

The Real RX can (the latest designs and technology) are what E2-X series came from WITH Rx's engineers sharing by contract with them and are properly licensed, so your getting the best of both. The big issue is the cheap glued together knock-off's speedworks is selling threw all of the Real RX Performance Products, LLC's operations into such turmoil and have destroyed the brand. Good question. Thanks! I will tray it again as soon as I get some time, but here is a condensed version. The post posted each multi-quote, but lost all of the answers I had composed. Here is a video of a LT1 at 5500 miles. No need to watch the entire video, but pause the first parts and look at the level of coking at these miles. I have another thread I will make to try and get members that are handy to remove their own intake manifolds and post detailed close up pictures and state the mileage on the engine at the time so we can get some long term wide variety of coking levels so all can get a better idea. If we wait and put blind trust and assumptions that there is no issue and then run into the LS7 valve breakage and valve guide wear debacle it is to late for many and they will have soured on their choice to purser what I strongly believe is the absolute best value in a "supercar" today by a large margin, and the solutions to correct these issues is pretty low cost and hassle (other than the draining), and the biggest confusion I think is people do not understand a big brand 15-20% effective can WON't have much effect as susceptible these now are to the coking issue. Here is a picture of a LS1 with 142,000 miles on, rarely used top tier fuel (but always premium) and this was my very own C5 as an example: The fuel spray with ONLY the Federally mandated minimum detergent levels, and the fuel spray keeping the valves clean would not allow most any deposits to form period with port injection, so a "catchcan" provided the benefits of reducing oil caused detonation and slowed/reduced the rate of the ring lands building the varnish deposits that restricted the rings ability to move freely and thus over time compound oil consumption issues. But today 99% of the cans on the market, no matter the brand name allow so much oil and other compounds past them they do little to combat this issue. The better ones like the original E2 by Elite were a much more effective can than most, but as mentioned by others, you cannot expect to address these issues with GDI fueling technology with the "older" technology of 99% of the "catchcans" on the market. For some history on the Elite cans, the original was known for ages as one of the best for port injection engines, and unlike the majority of brands, Elite was always proactive and was always striving to improve as things advanced and the needs increased for ever effective cans, and due to so many builds, turbo and super charging they developed the E2 can with much greater capacity, app. twice the coalescing ability, and dual outlets to allow for a turbo or centrifugal application where the IM is pressurized with boost. Then as GM launched the GDI V8's for 2014, Elite was very proactive in their R&D and it took a ton of $, time, and bringing in outside experts to design the proper system that does stop nearly all of these compounds, and then the over a year of testing and engine tear downs to see the effects as well as the final "independent testing taking months and thousands of miles against the other top selling brands out there to prove first hand they had the solution, with ColoradoSpeed following closely behind with this similar technology instead of the same old technology and designs most all have stuck with ignoring these new engines needs. I think what so many are stuck on is in the past using the popular cans did help reduce oil ingestion caused detonation and KR, but most that did take their TB off could see plenty of oil getting past so it created on "sour taste" as all claim to be the "best". And then with Elite, some are installing the lower priced early designs that even though can be used, and the E2 will slow the coking rate down for sure, these were designed for non GDI engines and until Elite had gone through all the time, money, effort to prove the effectiveness they certainly were not going to offer the best they had at the time as the best solution at the time, and for those on a budget the lower priced options are attractive if price is the determining factor over the ultimate solution recently released. So, Elite even though they had been working on the E2-X series for over a year, was hardly going to stop selling the best they had up until release, and so many will put the psychological barrier of price before "whats best" , and the E2 will help to slow the coking rate and is far better than 99% of any other brands you will find, don't at all be disappointed in all the time, expense, effort, and testing for over a years to make sure they had the best possible solution for these new GDI engines before they released them. And reading the testing against other cans is amazing to see even the # one seller in America's best can that the E2-X caught appropriately twice as much as the first one inline, and reversed almost nothing got through the E2-X. And so many others as well that performed even less effectively than that.

Again, just spent 45 minutes typing a long rely to all the questions with detailed explanations, click post and it takes me to a verify screen and when I enter the verify all my post is gone. WTH is going on here with this forum? How do you avoid this? SOOO frustrating! What a waste of time and effort. Is there anyway to recover all I typed for 45 plus minutes? Autosave I can access?

Amen. They were the true pioneers starting 14-15 years ago and really did the research and development on all of the issues caused by oil ingestion as well as all the GDI focus before any others. The two scammers are ex employee's that took advantage of all the hard work and years of investment RX made and shared with all. Have worked with the RX team for years and no better source of info IMHO. Spread the word and these pics as most have no idea what has happened. RX owners are taking legal action, but that is a long and expensive journey before they can stop these low-rates.

Oh, and one more thing to address the cheap Chinese knock-offs the 2 gys are selling using the RX brand (the reason RX is no longer marketing the genuine orignals) here is one taken apart for all to see: Note the bottom and top appear to be "glued" together!!! ​ ​ This came apart with little effort so I can see the concern of them possibly falling apart over time on there own with vibration and the oil mix inside them.

jrob, Nice install! Yes, that is a spare O-ring as the base model does not come with the 1/4 turn drain valve so it is taken apart every time to drain and if you break an O-ring they include an extra. Note, this is the base Elite can. One of the best when compared to most any other brand out there costing much more, and made in the USA billet construction. It has the one outlet and evacuates as the OEM PCV system only during idle, cruise, and deceleration. Tis is the most affordable of the Elite solution's and is best suited for a port injection engine as it was designed for. It will provide good reduction in the rate of coking. The E2 can was released a few years back and is larger in capacity and air/oil separation abilities and also has dual outlets for utilizing check valves to provide constant evacuation improving over the OEM PCV system and is a better solution but a bit more costly. It was also designed for Port injection engines that are modified and can work with forced induction quite well. The E2-X series is the ultimate. Standard with AN fittings, billet checkvalves, 1/4 turn drain valve, and much more as well as the most effective air/oil separating system available for the $, but is also the highest priced due to all included, etc. and was developed just for the unique needs of today's GDI engines. There is no better solution available aside from a centrifuge type system and they cost thousands to start and go up from there. Just so all know, the E2-X can be used with older port injection as well as the best solution, and even the base Elite will help slow the coking formation.

Yes. We are currently working on a consulting basis on one of the major brands that sells a similar product. These can be helpful if used from the start, but the issue is there is a certain amount of "wash down" when this solvent gets past the rings, and this washes some lubrication from the cylinder walls that can accelerate wear. But if done every 15k miles as suggested, you will have a good deal of coking before the next treatment. During this time between treatments, the wear to the valve guides is still occurring as the deposits on the valve stems are drawn into the guides with each cycle of the valve, and the guide is generally a brass alloy that is softer than the hard valve material and wear occurs. If the guide wears past acceptable tolerances then it becomes unstable at higher RPM's and "chatters" or "wobbles" in the guide allowing the valve edge where it contacts the seat to make contact un-evenly. This stresses the metal and fatigues it allowing failure over time: Read this to see how the LS7 engine had these issues due to incorrect machining, but the result is the same: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2015/10/15/Corvette-Z06-427-owners-file-proposed-class-action-suit-over-alleged-engine-defect/1801444953826/​ So, back to your take, I am all for regular treatments on Port injection engines with the soft carbon build up on piston tops and combustion chambers (every 50k miles or so...see the post a page or so back where a Tech posted the build up on a generator piston top), but as much of the deposits that form on a GDI engines valves are very hard and abrasive, the scouring we see when tearing these down to inspect on the pistons and cylinder walls are what concern me. The BG warranty would come into play I assume if these is catastrophic engine failure that can be proven to be directly related to the use of the treatments, and that will be near impossible to prove IMHO as well as most damage would be gradual and accumulative in nature, and I would think most owners would not notice and eventually trade the vehicle so that type of warranty seems pretty safe fro them and others to offer. My gut is I would do a treatment at the time of installing a Elite E2-X system to have a good start, but really a manual cleaning is best as I think BG even states it cleans "Up to 50% of the deposits" if I am not mistaken. And that is the industry average by what we see. So, as long as you have a good system installed I would say yes, every 15k miles WITH an E2-X system would be a good pretty safe regiment with a GDI engine, but until more data is gathered over a broad examination of engines doing just that, the jury is still out as far as my endorsing it. And the conditions of the warranty fall into what we are seeing once an engine has say 10k miles on it then damage can occur breaking these deposits loose while the engine is running. A manual cleaning is not difficult for those mechanically inclined. Hope that helps! Oh, and I forgot to address the oil used and the impact on deposit growth. ANY syn blend (like M1 Dexos, etc.) will create more deposits due to the petroleum based contents. A full syn (read up on the oil you use...not all claiming "full synthetic" are full synthetic, will result in less deposits due to the chemical composition and how they tolerate higher temps better before breaking down to "sludge". I personally prefer Pennzoil pure platinum, QS full syn, etc. over M1 for a "Walmart" carried oil. For a premium brand hard to beat Amsoil and similar.

mjj, Great questions, and all have been gone over in great detail in the previous ages, but to make it easier here are the answers: sdeeter is correct, but in more detail, all internal combustion engines have a certain amount of "bow-by". This enters the crankcase as a suspended or gaseous mix of certain contaminates. Here are the main ones that cause damage to the engine if not removed/evacuated as soon as they enter. If not removed, they quickly settle and mix with the oil and also coat internal parts: Water: Released during the intense heat and pressure of the combustion process. Tis dilutes and contaminates the oil as well as allows corrosion of internal parts. This is also the easiest to remove during the PCV systems evacuation. Un-burnt fuel: Gasoline does not burn very efficiently, and the same with ethanol. In fact it takes more ethanol to produce the same energy as gasoline does, and to maintain the proper A/F ratio. It is the detergents in the fuel that kept port injection engines valves spotless as well as the cooling effect of the spray on the valves. Fuel never touches the valves now (in any amount that can prevent this) as it is introduced directly into the combustion chamber in the final few millisecond's of the compression stroke. This also dilutes and contaminates the oil. Sulfuric acid: Forms when water and other hydrocarbon based compounds mix and this is very corrosive as well as a damaging contaminate attacking the oils ability to protect. Abrasive soot and carbon particles: 70% plus of all wear comes from these, and this is what turns the oil dark. You will see in many GDI engines the oil turns dark far sooner than in a port injection engine and this is due to the updated more effective baffling and separation of the oil mist inside the engine. The automakers are now beginning to trap some of the contaminants as well as the oil mist they are trying to control. Your oil filter only traps down to 15 microns f particulate size, and most of these are in the 3-7 micron or so size. Once these mix with the oil, they are there to stay. So, the only way to prevent the deposits is to stop them at the source, and that cannot be done with 90% plus of the "catchcans" on the market, no matter what the price. This is why you seems endorsing the Elite E2-X series. When you install one of them another benefit occurs, you are using 2 separate suction sources now for evacuation so at all times these are flushed and removed from the crankcase. The OEM PCV system only uses intake manifold vacuum and any time you are accelerating, this falls to zero (reversion pulses from cam lobe overlap, etc.) so during these periods the damaging compounds are dropping and mixing with the oil. The E2-X prevents this by always providing proper evacuation no matter the operating mode. I have to get back to work so will stop back and answer more in a few hours. GREAT questions!

Correct. As no fuel touches the backsides of the valves there is nothing they can do. Wasted $ when before with port injection they were a great benefit. Also, the pressure the injectors operate at is now 2000 PSI and above vs 50-55 in old port injection, so very rare for deposits to form on/in them as well now, but they still may after 50-100k miles. Look back a few pages and I posted the diagrams of port injection and GDI. This is on a Cadillac CTS-V with a damaged piston so tons of oil ingestion and it is on a dyno. Great video, and f you look closely, the oil is entering the right side of the clear container, and when vacuum is at it's greatest, it is being pulled up the left side and out passing through the can. An example of a design that only traps a small portion of the oil allowing most to "pull through". This is the actual model below. As you can see there is no inlet or outlet designated, and there is media against both openings. The one used as the inlet works, coalescing oil to be contained, but as the opposite side also has it, and the size of the unit is too small to allow the velocity, or speed of flow through to slow enough to prevent the Bernoulli effect from pulling it through, it also saturates the outlet sides media and to demonstrate what occurs, take a wet wash cloth and put it to your mouth, now suck on it. What happens? You suck the water out of it. Now the flow and strength of the suction on a PCV system is many times stronger than your mouth so multiply the effect. 99% of all "catchcans" are just manufactured by a few companies and private labeled with a brand, and little actual science and engineering goes into the design. Just what someone "thinks" will work. ​ ​ ​ ​ You will find that brand is the same as many other, Diablosport, Phastek, Billet prototypes, Billet specialties, etc. (about 20 more brands made/designed by the same company). I can post cut ways and test results from most any can on the market if people are interested in a certain brand/model so they can see most are just empty cans, or designed in such a way that even the ones that do separate also allow what has separated to be pulled through in large percentage VS what is retained. Also, for any that want to see how much of an improvement GM made for 2014 and up on internal separation, the LT series valve covers have the most robust baffles and condensing towers ever, but they have about hot the "wall" of what can be done internally as this also will trap the damaging contaminates that must be removed/evacuated from the crankcase. I urge all to go back and read from where I came in and study as much as possible. This is all a new world of caring for todays engines, and education is key. The Automakers have for decades "dumbed down" the buying public to not even open their hood unless a CEL prompts them to "service engine soon", and then it is to the dealer they go. To date, every single automaker denies any of this is happening, yet it is the #1 issue they are working on behind the scenes. The Co. I work for has a OEM solution that never needs to be serviced or drained for 100k plus miles that may be showing up from the factory in the next 4-5 years (the average time to implement a new technology) so until then, those that do care need to learn. And every can seller claims they are the "best", etc. and there is so much misinformation on the forums it is crazy. And ANY that vent or defeat all or part of the functions the PCV system performs will harm the engine over time as well. All the Elite systems retain emissions compliance. ​ ​ ​ ​ And the valley baffle as well has been improved. Keep the good questions coming, this is what a educational discussion should be like, and you have a unique opportunity to pick the brain of an Automotive Engineer that has been working on GDI and the issues and solutions for years from the manufacturing side of this.

Got it. Yes, all have the issues, and all so far following any of the claims on multiple fueling events, hot valves (the valves on GDI engines run many times hotter than port injection), etc. have shown very minor results when actually studied as we do for several companies (including one that makes the solvents) and to date, the only things that can be done is to eliminate the source with the proper system like the Elite E2-X, and you are also correct on hard driving seems to reduce the rate of build-up. Hot valves, etc. show worse deposits though in real life. Multiple fuel events show little effect, and in tank additives zero. Audi's adding small port injectors has also shown minimal effect on correcting this, but a side effect is the fuel present during both the entire intake and compression stroke has increased the incidence of detonation going backwards some. You are already doing the best you can it sounds like. And we have shown full syn oils like Amsoil produce less as well so your right on there. The real point I want to make is "catchcans" as a whole do so little as almost all let more oil and other compounds past them to still be ingested that it is so confusing for the consumer. Cheers!