Grumpy Bear

I would not argue that with you. It would be pointless to argue against the truth and you speak the truth. My question and in fact the entire point of this thread is an exploration into the levers of wear which happens no matter how well we maintain our powertrains. Some of these levers we exert a good deal of influence over which can and do result is lower wear, longer powertrain life. Some others we are sort of stuck with. An engine is typically done when the ring to bore seal no longer is able to do the job effectively. Normally the first thing to go in a engine otherwise well maintained and adult driven is this seal. Looking into the means, methods, products and attitudes that influence the rate of wear seems a worthwhile inquiry to me.

No one will care for you like you care for you. Do what you can for as long as you can. IMHO of course.

How about them NICKS!!!

One of the most useful post I've seen. Thank you.

Ops, Right you are. Okay I can still work with that. The USA has 129 working Refineries with a total crude capacity of 17,943,810 barrels per operating day Split proportionally to their size over them all that is 5.6 days of run time. He could sneak out 10X that much and not keep them cooking for two months. Now about that Titanic Shall we continue to argue about rearranging the deck chairs?

1,500,000 barrels of oil would run a Class 1 refinery for about 3 days. You guys are deep into where the ants on the boat came from as the Titanic is sinking.

I appreciate your sharing that. I would opine that you then hold the same view as the majority. I do note the + behind the 200,000 of the earlier models. I expect this means you would not find it unusual to run across pre-AFM/DFM engines with considerably higher miles which begs the question; at what point would you start to be impressed and say, "Now that's truly exceptional"?

Thanks for the point of reference

Great question. Answer....depends. One the volume of the crankcase, the driver that will actually be using the vehicle and the amount it uses plus the distance expected for that next trip. Couple of for instances: Wife is going to drive Dizzy to Moline and back plus a bit around town so say 500 miles on the day. I know from years with that SUV that around town and local rural it uses about a quart in 1250 miles. But on the Interstate and her at the wheel without her anchor nagging her she'll push it and it will drop a quart in about 800 miles. Hence, around town I wait to somewhere between a quarter down to a quart down. On her trip I'd top it if it was down a few ounces and hope for the best. Have I overfilled one? You mean by adding before it needs a full quart I assume. No, not once after finding the true fill mark. I know the dipsticks of everything I drive and add what it needs. I learn this by doing the first oil change a quart low. Run the motor for a few minutes. Let it sit over night. Check and mark. Then add half a cup at a time making note of the place on the stick. I add through the dipstick tube with a barbeque basting bottle. Give it a few minutes to drain down and check again. A vehicle like Dizzy that uses this much oil will take a few quarts between 3K changes. I keep one in the vehicle with the bottle and a bag. (Mindful of it's fullness) Not a big deal and never makes a mess of it. There is no such thing as "multiple quarts' in my shop for any specific oil. There will be a maximum however of the number of different oils used over the fleet. Dizzy holds a nominal 5 quarts. So the first fill was indeed over as it actually took 4.75. My vehicles are fit with Valvomax valves so I can meter an ounce on the drain if need be. Found her mark first crack at it. Never to be repeated. Pepper uses none between changes so I don't keep a quart in that one. Straight up 6 quarts put her dead on the full line. Check it ever fuel stop. They will surprise you when they start using. Raven holds 3 liters or 5.44 ounces over three quarts. I add 3 quarts and 6 ounces. That gives me 5 oil changes on my orphan quart. Lawnmower holds about 3/5 of a quart. I don't over fill it to prevent an orphan. So yea, depends.

Last three days, 12.75". Yesterday, 6" of it in under 2 hours. Lawn loved it, basement not so much.

It's what happens when there is no singular standard. Nearly 9 billion people each carving out for themselves what they believe is 'righteous". Now if we only had access to a uniform standard Ops! I forgot myself for a second. Back to your regularly scheduled programming. (Pull the pin, check. Toss the grenade into the trashcan, check. Put the lid back on, check....now wait )

Any idea what that is as a percentage of the worlds daily use is? Context matters my friend

There is a lot of good information in this post. I was hoping to get the OP's opinion though. Understand what his views are to better place his post in his context. This grabbed my attention. Only because I understood instantly context is literally everything to that web referenced search and that provide none of the kind that mattered. Yes it has the miles and oil change limits (context) but missed the most important factor....service. OR perhaps is assumed it at the level of Joe Average Consumer experience. I know, for instance from years of racing that a valve spring can be destroyed in under 50 feet or last a million plus miles in a commercial diesel engines. Cyclic Fatigue varies allot with the type of use it gets. Point is that the engine whose stress is the least, all other things equal, last the longest. It's the "other things equal" part that gets ignored. Thus as you say below: It was a good post. Went well with my second cuppa.

ISO 4406 and OCI Do you know what it is and does it matter?

Curious, what would you consider a 'normal' AFM system lifespan? How long do you think one without is capable of?

3" of rain yesterday in 30 minutes. 2" 24 hours earlier and we are getting another storm that say is larger today in about 2 hours. We had about the average for April, a very VERY dry May and now I'm hoping to see a rainbow in June. Corn is loving this stuff.

How bout them Nicks?

I'd guess state side Group III. That Qatar plant is a GTL unit, Group III+

I know you didn't write the manual. Pepper uses none regardless of OCI which has been as long as 7.5K and as short as 3K. 5 is the usual. Daisy, the Buick 3800 uses zero as does the wife's Buick. Dizzy on the other hand has had its own oil well since the clock rolled 80K. Now at 287K and using a quart in 1200 miles. She had a Paseo that started using about the same time, 80 or 90K that went 300K. Both of those motors we feed shelf synthetics. All the others that don't run Red Line HP or AMSOIL SS. That oil guzzling Terrain I top off at 4 ounces which is pretty often. As wife's primary I'm more picky that if I were driving it all the time. Dad started that 'Keep it full even if you never change it", from the first day I was old enough to understand what he was talking about and sir that was early. Like 5. If I wanted to see him I had to be with him and when he was home, he was in the shop working on something with a motor. Army/farm trained. Anyway, I've pulled and read a few dipsticks and know a few as well. I've never felt anything but full was an 'acceptable' practice. Been forced into it a few times but never by choice. In the seven plus decades I've been breathing, a quart off the FULL mark is down a quart. There was never an acceptable deviation. Not that we didn't run them in between we just didn't go on line to make noise about it. There wasn't any, "On Line"

Then we agree on the range between marks is 1 quart (for most light duty trucks and cars). Great! Whew! I will push back on the ambiguous every time. I can see some cherry looking at the dipstick before a long haul and seeing the level just above the lower mark closing the hood and not giving it a second thought until the next stop or the I-D-10-T error light flashes and parts leave the confines of the engine bay. How about it Chris, do we top up when we see it at a quarter quart low?, A half quart below full or wait until it doesn't register on the stick? That's where asilerblazer is heading and to me, it read like he wouldn't mind taking a few reads with him.

GDI Injector tips are in the combustion chamber and yes, they are subject to the same aromatic hydrocarbon based carbon build up the entire chamber is subjected to. Chevron Techron is a PEA based cleaner (polyether amine) that is VERY effective if the dose is high enough. Carbon the tips disrupts the spray pattern so keeping them clean is kind of a big deal. It will clean more than the injector tips. It will keep the inside of the injector tip clean as well. When they shut off they 'hot soak' building varnish internally behind the pintle. The tip, unlike most MFI systems have several orifices of very small diameter. They have to stay clean to work right. That spray pattern is supposed to spray into the cup in the piston, not all over the cylinder walls. Old guys will understand... Top Tier Chevron has enough of the cleaner to be effective if used regularly. Other solutions could be Shell V Power Nitro + Premium and Exxon/Mobil Supreme Plus Premium ONLY use a different chemistry to the same effect with the added bonus of a friction/antiwear additive as well. Red Line SI-1 is PEA based as well with an upper cylinder lube. There's a white paper on their site for shock treatment of system left untreated for long periods. AMSOIL PI has a full system cleaner of yet another chemistry that will strip carbon out of the power cylinder pretty quick. Gumout Regane is also PEA based but at very low doses and those that are isopropanol based will not be effective. Alcohol content is way to low. Chevron Techron in any pump gas, Use by package instructions. 10 oz per 15 gallons every 3,000 miles. First use may require two treatments. So, Techron, Red Line SI-1 and AMSOIL PI if batch treating and Shell, XOM Premium or any Chevron Fuel will not just keep it clean, but will clean it if dirty. No other fuel "I'm aware of will do that". Flex Fuel motors. If you use at least 40% alcohol on a regular basis they won't carbon at all. PEA is not recommended for fuels over E-20 (www.carparts.com)

If it's at the bottom line it IS a quart low from full that; that is the point of the sticks markings. It says, "If the oil is below the crosshatch area at the tip of the dipstick and the engine has been off for at least 15 minutes, add 1 L (1 quart) of the recommended oil and then recheck the level". (shows a little arrow to indicate which line is at the tip of the stick for the confused word salad crew). Ya know, like the line that says 'don't drink the battery fluid". Lets use your logic. If it is 0.000001" below the mark then add a FULL quart and it will be 0.000001" below the full mark. Thus the distance of the cross-hatching is 1 quart and it is one quart low of FULL if AT the line; so yea, it's a quart low of full. Being in the 'acceptable range" if you add less doesn't alter this fact. Critical thinking people. Word salad..... I now know the reason for the ridiculous wording of present day manuals. But it still doesn't explain the pop-up on the infotainment screen that says, "Don't read this screen while driving" that pops up when your driving.

Now there's some fancy double talk. Let me see if I get this right. The level is at the bottom of the hatching and you add a quart (because the range of the hatching is a quart) it brings it to the top of the hatching but.... it's not down a quart?

This used to be hard and fast but....some motors, Asian Metrics for example maybe like a half liter. The Ecotec 2.4 varies along the length of the hatched area due to a main cap girdle they are fit with occupying/displacing irregular volumes vertically an yet is still a quart from top to bottom. I'm sure there are exceptions to the most common value of a quart so peeing on each others leg would be pointless. Do your study and report back.

Then you haven't read your book. It also says check every 400 miles. If you need to add multiple quarts in that distance then reading the stick isn't the issue. Put the two together and it will make sense. Read it all.