All one has when they believe AFM is the CAUSE of oil usage is a belief. IMHO. I haven't seen a case study yet that supports this belief. But I'd be interested to see it if it exist. Point me to it! Conjecture and/or anecdotal evidence really doesn't work for me. Well, past the point that I like a good yarn as much as the next guy. Not really a poly-ticks guy either. More of a science and math guy.
Yes sir. Dad gets 300K falling off a log. 2500 OCI and mineral oil. Last ten years or so he's traded horses. Syntech and pushing 15K without UOA and so far....getting away with it. Of course he's doing this experiment on my brother-in-laws Olds. An adult, well written and refreshing perspective. Thanks for sharing it. Glad you enjoyed it. I've been a bit scattered recently. Four funerals in ten days. I'm about tapped out so slow on the trigger.
Rational thought. That's what I argue for. I'm not in the mood for mindless bickering. So.....let go back to the OP's question and it wasn't about longevity. It was about requirement. No...the DFM does not require it. It functions over a wide range of viscosities. The oils viscosity changes with temperature. Temperature changes with load and speed and weather and dilution and and and.....Oil's primary function in the motor is not hydraulics....it's hydrodynamics. Viscosity is chosen for hydrodynamics. It is chosen for an expected MINIMUM viscosity that may be seen during the life of the oil. THIER expected life. Evidently that number is really small as they find 240 F 'normal' while running a 0W20. It requires a MINIMUM USED OIL viscosity. Rational thought? Change you oil. Two different issues. All oils shear and shear does cause a viscosity change and it is always lower. Oxidation causes a viscosity change as well and that is always higher. Dilution does not cause a shear related viscosity reduction. It is a dilution related viscosity reduction. Rational thought? Change your oil. Those are MY thoughts. If you don't agree...Great! But you didn't ask for them....did you OnTheReel? Easy TXGREEK, my dance card if full. Ah...Rational thought!! Not so hard, right? Where were you earlier Hawk?
Turning Point Care package came from AMSOIL today. Thank you Nick! I've been presenting this piece meal fashion. It's my process. Sorry about that. There are five parts to this project. 1.) Oil Quality 2.) Oil Cooling 3.) Oil Cleanliness 4.) Oil Change Intervals 5.) Oil Stress There is but one goal. Knowledge. Longevity is the vehicle. Cost is NOT a consideration...within reason. But what is reasonable? Most of my life I've had little issues getting 200K plus from anything with four wheels on nothing more than 5 to 7.5K OCI, good oil and name brand filters. It's my nature not to stress oil very much. My driving style gets moisture out and holds shear and heat in check. I would have been happy with that for the rest of my life if it hadn't been for the last few years of the insane price increases of vehicles coupled with a severe dumbing down of basic quality and mandated over complication and compliance. Nutshell? Greed is getting too greedy. I can by allot of oil and filtration for $50K and as I have been able to skip buying every other vehicle I thought why not every third or maybe even fourth. I needed a new mind set. Less follow the leader. I think I have one and I'll lay it out.
If you're thinking that Pennzoil 0W20 has an different additive package than their 15W40....your thinking is wrong. Same add package, same additive levels. Auto motor oil VIS improvers, no matter what the base stock is EPDM. Antifoam is Silicon suspension. Gas X . EP additive is ZZDP. Acid package is Calcium or Magnesium and usually both. TUMMS/Rolaids. I know for a fact that one manufacture has both a 20W50 Auto oil and a 20W50 Motorcycle oil whose ONLY difference is one uses calcium and the other magnesium for acid control and the only reason for that is legal requirements for marketing wording. I'm not saying what's best. I'm saying what is possible. The OP isn't going to have a problem and no need to keep him up nights over some marketers lies. I've known people to go 100K plus with nothing but makeup oil from any source. He'd even use 85W gear oil at times if it was handy. Never ever changed his filter. Would I do that? Yea....that's a hard NO.
I have bought exactly two brand spanking new cars. One a Scion that was used 125 miles on it and traded it for Pepper used 1300 miles on her about a month later. Demo's have more miles than these last two. Only one of the two new turned out to be a good car. The other not so much. I've bought older used that looked to be in good condition and yet were pretty poor cars. One was a real money pit the other I made some money on. I've bought from friends a family as I believed I knew their history. Not so much. Then a few years ago I started buying two year old with 20K or less on the clock. Executive lease and program cars. One Estate car, older, very low miles. All have been great cars so.....that is the plan for the future. Truth be told, they are all money pits. I look for rides that are under $25 K TOPS and yes you can buy some really nice stuff for that price IF NEW isn't a priority.
Cylinder deactivation has been around since???? The late 1800's to be exact and produced for nearly 50 years. Hit and Miss motors. Some are still in use today and some were as powerful at 100 hp. Yea, more powerful than the F head Fords of the day.
Pretty much and not enough to upset the apple cart when mixed. Marketing terms. Extended Life means a bit more calcium or magnesium. Advanced Fuel normally means 0W instead of 5w. High mileage...lord who knows. More EP additive I expect. I have five on the lot with three different specs. In a pinch I mix and match odd bottles of this and that to limit waste and shelf stock. That little bit you never wait for? I collect and use as my mower oil.
I've been thinking about this allot lately and you got my attention with the word 'platforms'. In the provided context are you talking about the additive package or implied differences in base stocks?
Wow! Where would one start? Lets start with 'know better than GM'. Well skip over the inability to tell the difference between a 'keyboard engineer' and an actual Engineer. Lets go strait to LOGIC 101. You want to side (trust explicitly) with GM in choosing the lubricant because 'they know better'. Okay. Is this the same set of engineers that designed the AFM system you bypassed because it's a piece of junk? The same engineers that designed the cam and lifters that fail. Oil pumps that fail. Vacuum pumps that fail. EPS that fails. Transmissions that are 'stumbling drunks'. Driveshafts that explode. Axels the wobble. The same engineers that test your failed equipment and deny your warranty claims. The guys the designed your PCV system so ineffective you put catch cans on. Those engineers? Let's move on to 'complex oiling systems'. We could argue that but it might be more productive to ask that even if that were true, and I'm not in agreement that it is, how did that change the lubrication function and interaction between the oil and the things it lubricates. Yea, the fundamental requirements are the same for babbitt bearings in your grandfathers Model T as the are in a GP bike. Provide a film thick enough and strong enough. Cool. Clean. Fight friction. Does it matter how 'good' the oil is if you insist on mistreating it, ignoring it and expecting to much from it? I haven't seen a light bulb come on yet for anyone that tells me they understand the significance of the OPERATIONAL temperature/viscosity relationship beyond what it says on the a data sheet. You want to argue that the VVT/DOD wont work properly or the engine will be damaged due to 'wrong' viscosity if any other oil but 0W20 is used but fail to grasp that a guy like me that drives the double nickel and whose bulk oil temperature is 195 F vs a guy that is towing 10,000 lbs. in the desert at 70 mph with a bulk temperature is 250 F has already EFFECTIVELY moved the viscosity FOUR SAE steps. 20W to 50W is the spread between these two temperatures to obtain the same 'running' viscosity. Yet both systems work just dandy. You know this well enough to be dismissive of 'keyboard' engineers. Let me take a WAG. I'm being mean.
Read a Doctoral dissertation last night from youngster at Winsor University on the subject of piston under crown oil spray and it's effect on piston temperatures. The initial unsprayed temperatures agreed quite nicely with the MIT studies. Chapter 7 conclusions pointed to a 10% to 25% reduction in sensible heat. The hotter the portion of the piston being cooled the greater the impact of the cooling. Something I had not fully considered when I posted the above. Plugging those numbers into the heat balance equation and ring land oil temperatures, under sensible loads, are lower than the HTHS numbers and well below the NOACK levels. US military 1940 first used this method on WW II air cooled radial motors. Tom Sifton, and I've used allot of this guys equipment, was the first to use in on the ground in post war Harley 750 flathead flat track motors to STOP piston seizures. Pretty common these days. And once again....: Ecclesiastes 1:9 New International Version (NIV) What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Hey, old guys and old school are useless, right?
Actually this is true. Both statements. The question becomes a matter of degree that it is true. The difference between 0W20 and 5W30 at 150 F and above is about the same difference in viscosity at water and milk at room temperature or roughly 2 cSt. Measurable? Yes. Does it matter? Hardly. It's the reason there is no measurable difference in hot oil pressure trading between the two SAE grades. Neither your VVT nor your DOD will notice the change FUNCTIONALLY. That said it doesn't mean you wont 'sense' a change. Ever notice on a really hot and still day that your motor gets all whisper quite? You notice it more on a tractor on an air cooled bike. Seems both of you are right and if you shift your focus to 'degree' of difference you might even agree...maybe.
If you let it idle for around a half hour after being warmed up the transmission temperature will nearly reach water temperature. That will get you to your "Hot Check" temperature. FYI. Different trucks with the 6L80E over the years have employed various cooling strategies so comparing one trucks 'average' temperature to another can be problematic. Max tow and 2500's, to the best of my knowing, don't have thermostats and run cooler. Some 1500's with cooling in both the radiator and the upper part of the A/C condenser have stats, some don't. Factory fluid is a Group III and while it will take a hair more heat than the other mineral oils the seals and clutch bonding are still subject to the limits they always have been. I'm never happy with temperature over 220 F. Mine use to run on a hot day, no load 225 F if run for hours upon hours. I deleted the thermostat and now get temperatures like you do season by season. As long at it gets over the dew point for the day and a minimum of 100 F (40 C) I worry not about moisture or the computer or anything else. Seal deterioration and clutch delamination isn't a 'hit 240 F and they go bye-bye' proposition. It's more like a boxer getting hit by a punch that isn't hard enough in one strike to knock him out but after several rounds the cumulative damage sets him on his fanny. The defense for this is routine fluid changes and GM knows this. 45,000 mile changes for heavy service. Stop and go in the city can be heavy service. IMHO. Mines cool as the other side of the pillow, I run good fluid and I still change it at minimum every 50K. If you tow and run 220 F + and think you immune because you have some 'super fluid' and don't need a cooler and don't need to change your fluids...to me....that's like driving home drunk every night. Getting away with it, if you do, isn't proof it's a great idea, Not even sound thinking. IMHO of course. For what it's worth
Grumpy Bear replied to diyer2's topic in Garage & Home, Snow Plowing, Landscaping, & Lawn CareI got hooked on the $32 a gallon gas for awhile. Then I went to the station and store, bought my gas, oil and some seafoam and made my own for like $4 a gallon. Drain them over the winter.
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