Grumpy Bear

$3.72 for Regular at Love's today.

I have four that read by the dash 8 to 10% better than miles/pump calculations and I have one that is spot on.

The average lifespan of automobiles on the road is increasing - here's why

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/fuel-economy-stickers-don-t-tell-the-whole-story-aaa-data-reveals-why/ar-AA26ocHk?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=6a4122ea3dae47e5b8dfbed5d4fd3d55&cvpid=648f6b4fc2fa4eddb4c12893aeb957ed&ei=59

Without exception but then I'm the odd duck, right? I know what goes into that test, how it is calculated and thus how to beat it. But EPA values are often not beaten by the general public and the government has in past years adjusted the means and methods to come to those values to more closely approximate "Joe Average". The only real trick to beating that EPA average is don't drive like "Joe Average". It's the same method you used to profit from "Economic Migration" and in doing so beat the 'stats'. But you, like me, are not "Joe Average". The thing you don't seem to grasp is this "Purchasing Power Index" isn't forward looking. It doesn't predict what it going to be but looks backward and states what it was. They are not telling us what the THINK, they are telling us what they MEASURED. Example: Wife says "I'm going to lose 40 pounds by Christmas". May she does, maybe she doesn't but the doctors office who weighed her when she made that statement and again at Christmas only REPORTS what the RESULT was. You and I can banter about what was possible and what aunt Tilly did till the cows come home but the result is the result. Arguing otherwise is.....irrational. That's all I'm saying. This isn't about: What you are calling a 'Statistic' is a RESULT not a CALCUATION and as a result the RULE. Like gravity as a rule, it can not be broken.

Do you have access to BP fuels? Some stations have Silver 91 E-0 priced the same as their 93 E-10. There is a local Marathon with 90 alky free for $6 a gallon but I go down the road to BP for $5-ish. They also have a 100 E-0 but that stuff is $10 a pop.

Consider me amused. We are who we are, right?

I went to the county a few years back to dispute my property taxes. To do that I hired an appraiser and a lawyer. The County Assessor wished to argue that the homes in my neighborhood the appraiser used were all 'distressed properties" and not representative of the "Market Average". My response was," Of the 50 homes in our subdivision 43 of them were "distressed properties" under bank foreclosure and as such "Distressed IS the market". Lawyer about choked on his coffee and handed the Assessor the 'receipts'. I won that case on the evidence provided by the Lawyer and the Appraiser. We have the same thing going on here. My statements were based on the GOVERNMENTS NATIONAL DATA and yours on local markets in areas of your interest. They are both correct.... Thing is, this divergence was based on NATIONAL and not on LOCAL. I think you even understand that. But like you said, we are both stubborn and hardheaded. I do not see any advantage to disengagement. But that said we can step back to compose ourselves.

$2.20 E-85 down from $2.59 Around $3.80 for regular and about $5 on average for Premium. Propane $3.99 a gallon.

Lets see if I can sum up two pages of nothing useful. You want to refute your own governments data of the "Purchasing Power" Index FOR THE ENTIRE USA and its territories replacing it with the experience of a single family and its business and label that reality? Then pound on that for a week hoping it will find traction? Stan, I've told you several times. I don't do irrational. There are more people in the USA than your family. I'm pretty sure this tread is so blown up. I'll give you a few days or months if need be to post yourself silent then I'll see if I can find enough parts of the train to reassemble it.

been off line a few days. SO form the way back machine: 150,000,000 (updated figure spouted a day later) / 2,200,000 (Volume of a Super Tanker) = over 68 of those of the largest class moved and reloaded over a weekend. There are on average only 70 of those 2.2 million barrel ships in the Persian Gulf. So...he's saying he moved them ALL! Does that pass the sniff test I think not.

Point of the post sir was that while both wages and cost are rising EVERYWHERE; the cost is rising faster EVERYWHERE than the ability to buy EVERYWHERE. We're not going down the location rabbit hole. I'm aware of what economic migration is. I've lived in four states including Texas. It's what "Purchasing Power" means. I'm not telling you what I think. I'm telling what the government, your government, data shows. It wasn't an argument. It wasn't a suggestion. It was a statement of FACT. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion. Your not entitled to your own facts. If you and I were, they wouldn't be facts. fact /făkt/ noun Knowledge or information based on real occurrences. "an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy." Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed. "Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact." A real occurrence; an event. "had to prove the facts of the case." The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik If you'd like to disagree call your Senator or Representative and let him know his departments are in error. But you and I? We are not doing this.

My post above is the direct reason for my outsized interest in keeping what I have for as long as possible. My memory isn't as short as some.

I don't think so. Cars? Our experience will diverge there as well. I was buying cars with 200K (1970's) when I started and quite a few were pretty solid cars. (My early stuff was 1964 to 1968) Some stinkers but not the dismal picture painted above. Now that said, yes, a dealer wouldn't talk to you if your car had more than 60K on the clock and lot cars were 60K or less except the back row where 100-120K was the auction bought for dirt for us poor losers. Kids in my county were not allowed to wear long pants if they couldn't rebuild and repair every part of that beast. I will agree that many parts are now better. Alternators and charging systems are an envy. But I replaced few water pumps or power steering pumps then. Rebuilt carburetors but replaced few. Mufflers are another place of OEM improvement. Stainless? We didn't have no stink'n stainless. As long as humans are in charge of governance this $$$$ situation will not improve. The purchasing power of a dollar in 1955 is significantly higher than in 2025, meaning that a dollar could buy more goods and services in 1955 compared to 2025 due to inflation over the years. For example, what you could buy for $1 in 1955 would require approximately $10.50 in 2025. Calculator.net inflationtool.com Comparison of Purchasing Power: 1955 vs 2025 The purchasing power of a dollar has changed significantly from 1955 to 2025 due to inflation. Below is a breakdown of how much more money is needed in 2025 to match the buying power of a dollar in 1955. Purchasing Power Overview Year Equivalent Value of $1 in 1955 1955 $1.00 2025 $10.50 Key Points Inflation Impact: The value of money decreases over time due to inflation, meaning that the same amount of money buys fewer goods and services in the future. Example of Inflation: What could be purchased for $1 in 1955 would require approximately $10.50 in 2025. This illustrates how inflation has eroded the purchasing power of the dollar over the decades. Understanding these changes in purchasing power is crucial for financial planning and assessing economic conditions over time. Wikipedia Calculator.net

https://precisionlubrication.com/articles/oil-filter-efficiency/ For them it is a problem of $$$$ and compliance. To cover both they have to lie from the heart. Government wants low waste oil numbers so the bar needs to be very low on contamination to met that requirement. Consumer wants cheap maintenance (perceived cost). Again requiring a low bar. OEM wants high margins at a cost effective warranty rate and lots of repeat customers. More low bar. Filter manufacture wants the same thing the OEM wants. See the pattern? Consumers are fickle and also want perfection requiring a HIGH bar. Inconsistent with all of the above. Consumers can be, when the put their minds to it, inquisitive, love winning arguments which requires some useful information to be available to support them. And this is where it gets sticky and the lies begin. Information needs a solid well grounded point of reference if we are to compare in a useful way. There is a standard for this. ISO 4548-12. This standard sets the particle size at a specific Beta ratio and darn few are faithful to its intent. If they don't state the test method they change the particle size or the Beta ratio to hit a perceived favorable standard. They obscure the information in a way as to prevent direct comparisons leaving the consumer with one method. UOA's with an ISO 4406 test result. Pricey and not allot of labs willing to do the work. Lobby work happens everywhere, not just at the seat of government.

Interesting question which you partly answered in the word 'potentially'. I think that is going to be a 'point of reference' inquiry. What are the touchstones? This will sound petty but it is the main source of end fighting in threads on this topic. Define a motors "Life". Think about the various arguments that have been entertained on these pages in that very argument. I can only speak from my viewpoint. Engine "Life" in my world is defined by power cylinder integrity. For the majority of engines it is the bore/ring interface that quits first. Loss of seal. Oil consumption and loss of power. Most Pro motor builders would agree and there is a good deal of information on using "Leak Down" as a primary indicator of bore integrity. At home a compression test is more the thing. If we can agree on that then I think CC Jensen has done its homework and I'd find it valid. Now by my own definition, Dizzy, wife's Ecotec 2.4 I-4 has been dead since about 80K miles. And yet we have logged over 200K miles more on it. "Life" and "Usefulness" are therefore independent. I know a mature fella right now who has just hit 300K on a Mitsubishi 3A92 NA MPFI motor and has done compression test every 100K. It was 205 psi after break in and is now about 195 and still even. He uses shelf oil but good filters and adheres to a 3K mile OCI. He even do UOA's on each of them for the first 50K. I also know a fleet mechanic with that same motor that gets 300 to 500 K out of them but the are oil using, wristpin sloppy, skirt slapping motors. He ran one with a piston pin so loose the piston was bouncing off the cylinder head for about 20K miles before he called TOD. Both of them claim success.

Notes 6/18/2026 Back on E-85. At current War pricing there was not way to make gasoline work. Not even close.

On our 100 mile jaunt today regular was $3.83 in Rochelle and $4.68 rural. There was also a dollar difference in road diesel. I know where the OTR's are fueling.

Practical Application ISO 4406 I think this oil cleanliness thing is going to boil down to ones personal resolve. The information is there but applying it I believe will test your commitment to the machine. Implementation would involve building or buying a prefilter or purchase of an "ISOCLEAN" oil. Then installing a single digit micron bypass system. A good deal of testing and about 99.9% of you are saying at that point....yea.....not my cuppa tea. So what can you do? You already did the first step. Get educated and leave the bias at the door. Be aware of the its, cleanliness, importance. Do your own work if you can. Keep the equipment clean. Not just your funnel but the engine bay. Use sealed containers. Think it through. I believe you will find, as I did, that the tightest absolute full flow filters (Beta 200) will be around 20 micron. That will yield on average a Beta 75 of 10-15 micron. They are few in number by brand and price point. Loose filters are a dime a dozen and even the best brands have lines of loose filters. Some cleverly marketed as "Extended Service". Others will market flow over efficiency. But I think the take away once informed is that the extra cost of the best offered is a bargain. There are cheaper filters with good efficiency that are equal in performance to niche brands with big prices. Your Quick Lube is about a 40 micron unit. This is where your dealer is a plus. the AC-Delco filter is a good step up from those places. Even better if you specify the UPF line. Be skeptical of marketing. Buying an oil that is made from GTL advertised as the cleanest base oil is using a truth to support a lie. While GTL's are made from debris free gas the processing equipment and post handling is just like any other oil. It also ignores the fact that PAO's and Esters are also gas in origin. Any private prescreening testing you would do, and some have done, would yield a result only good for the batch you tested. AMSOIL and Schaeffer's have built a reputation for paying attention to this detail. Context. Cold starts account for at least 75%, or more, of an engines wear. But of the remaining 25% ish, over 80% is caused by particle count. Now where do we find high milage motors that use this type of information efficiently? OTR trucking! Now, anyone want to build a prefilter or off line cleaning system anyway?

Here's a starter kit: CC Jensen, a Danish oil testing Concern gives us the following guidelines: ISO 14/12/10 Very Clean Oil ISO 16/14/11 Clean Oil ISO 17/15/12 Lightly Contaminated ISO 19/17/14 New Oil ISO 22/20/17 Very Contaminated and not suitable for any service. In addition CC Jensen gives a table showing how engine life is increased by cleaning up the oil. For example cleaning the oil from 19/17/14 to 13/11/8 will extend motor life by a factor of 6X. But even cleaning it two “Life Extension Classes” will double motor life. So perhaps giving those classes would be useful: 21/19/16 20/18/15 19/17/14 18/16/13 17/15/12 16/14/11 15/13/10 14/12/9 13/11/8 ************************************* https://testoil.com/program-management/setting-iso-cleanliness-targets/ Third paragraph from the bottom will give a starting point. Your next question should be, okay 10um at what Beta ratio and the answer is in the graph Beta 75. Then the next question is what is your chosen filters profile? (Purolator PL series below) The red dot is Beta 75. This was the information I obtained from MANN a few years ago. So the best filters, Purolator One, AMSOIL EA, FRAM Ultra, Royal Purple, Bosch Premium should get a doubling engine life over filters like Purolator L, any service filter from any quick lube, WIX, NAPA, STP, Mobil 1, Purolator BOSS. And as noted by CC Jensen a 2-5 micron @ Beta 200 bypass system has the capability of a six fold improvement. AMSOIL has such a system as does Donaldson. Now having said all that testing is the touchstone. Test the oil NEW and test it with your chosen filter. Then test over milage. Do the work, get the result. But understand this in NOT absolute BECAUSE this is one factor in isolation. Example: A valve spring supplier can state that with cam X and a valve train of Y grams the valves will not float to 7K rpm. is that true if the builder choose a system 20 grams over limit? Common sense must be used and limits understood.

Thank you for keeping the train on the tracks and for a thoughtful engagement. I enjoyed the reflection on a previous stance to refine and improve your position. I like that inquisitive flexibility about you Atlas. No the process isn't sterile. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of miles of piping, vessels, pumps. Chevron, the people I worked for, were keenly aware that there is a market for what is known as their "ISOCLEAN" line of lubricants. These are lubricants that are the same as those sold bulk that are further processed by filtration to a level your particular application demands. They will filter and package and provide lab documentation as required. Do not kid yourself. Every gallon of oil that goes into a Chevron Turbine, reciprocating compressor, generator is prefiltered and tested before being charged. Lest wise it was when I was there in the plants I worked in. There are requirements set by manufactures for the cleanliness of the oils used in their equipment. OTR such as CUMMINS has standards shared with customers on this. Commercial interest selling to Ma and Pa do, but don't share that information. Not even upon request but internally, they do exist. The GM study sited, (Graph from Machinery Lubrication in previous post) only shows "relative" importance. I find that fascinating. By constructing the graph like this they admit there are dozens of factors in engine life and via scientific method determined the effect of 'relative cleanliness' on engine life not in miles but in 'FACTORS'. This allows a certain amount of reverse engineering does it not? They even provided some touchstones. Beta 75 as a reference point. Wonderful stuff!! Smaller blenders CAN and some DO take the time and effort to do better than a refinery or large bulk blender, like Warren Oil, in improving the "in the can" cleanliness. No I don't have a list but testing could generate that information. Again, but one of several levers we can pull to improve engine life. The simplest is keeping a clean work station while doing your own oil changes.

I just spent the last 45K miles doing samples every oil change over more than a full year to get the data for seasons and break-in to broke in. I found the same thing to be true. Something was always teetering on done or had stepped off the cliff long before the OLM was DOA. In fact, I found about a thousand mile difference between summer and winter. That is during the winter half the OLM was STILL too long. Even the severe schedule was to long in the winter. Now having done the work I can say I was NOT DISAPOINTED. I saw nothing I didn't already know. Nothing my father hadn't already demonstrated in his 2K OCI's pushing dated iron on dated oils and weak filters to mileages well beyond 300K. Building on his work through use of Lab testing it wasn't hard to find the correlation between 'sight/feel/odor, the things dad relied on, and test results. Use of current viscosity stable chemistries & filters has pushed that marker for my motors out to 3K summer, 4K winter. So the early lies were 3K on conventional oil and the lie upon the lie was 7K+. turns out to be off by a factor of two. So... it is true that modern chemistry has doubled the useful oil life. But the base milage that came from was off by double. It's how good lies work. Partly true, sometimes mostly true so that your meter isn't set off. It also means that non-shear-stable shelf oils are only now as good as the old oils were in their best case scenario. So the question now is how do we improve on that? Thus the question into cleanliness among the other items listed in the post quoted below. If this bores you, feel free not to participate.

Stan....YOU'RE bored. Do you hear yourself?

Morality and Profit are two dogs fighting over the same bone. The bone looses. Profit isn't always monetary. Position, power, leverage, prestige, celebrity, notoriety, fame; all forms of profit and those wanting whatever their currency is, don't care about who that pursuit hurts.

@KARNUT a few days (pages) ago I ask a specific question about the ISO 4406 test. The WHAT and WHY. I hadn't posted to this thread in awhile an yet the response had nothing to do with the CURRENT question, but continued the same rehash of "What we do" and 'What we've done". It ignored the question in its entirety. Now the CURRENT query is further being derailed. "I like what I've got and I don't want to talk about your question I want to talk about why I don't want to talk about your question". Stan that isn't interesting. It's disruptive and unproductive. I tired again further up this page with post on the same ISO method expanding that thought and this below Irrational, it doesn't and it can't and it was explained not just by me but by the MANUFACTURE and was disregarded and Stan I find it tiresome. I get it when people are satisfied with there routines. I get it that some don't like having those routines questioned. Know what I don't get? That these people insist on making sure that no one else gets to explore something they DO find interesting and worth the pursuit. Guy's if you don't like chocolate ice cream and chocolate ice cream is the topic why the compulsion to pick it up and disrupt the exchange of people that do?