Grumpy Bear

Yes.

WOLF! There are three GDI motors on this property. All GM and all 2014 or newer. Two with over 75K on them. Yes I had a look inside and down the runners of the 4.3 around 50K as saw nothing I haven't seen in those same places in healthy motors for the past 50 years that I routinely drive to a quarter million. So here's what I'm saying: "Known to be an issue" is not the same as "Know it WILL BE an issue". Well...and I'm doing something obviously wrong if I don't have the same issues that are certain to happen. Wonder what that might be?

Know what you call a motor that uses that much oil with todays ring and valve seal technology? JUNK! Yea, yea. GM says a quart in a thousand is NORMAL. Use to be during the days of the 454 they denied motor claims until it got worse than a quart in 400 miles. that was normal too. A quart in 10K before and he sees no issue? I wonder what it would take to get his attention?

Because the fuel doesn't do much cooling. The air does. The heats your eluding to happen on the combustion chamber side of the valve. Most of a fuels ability to cool comes from...vaporization....which doesn't happen to any significant degree in a carbureted or port injection motors until after entry into the chamber. To that point it's a mist at WOT and at PT even though MAV is high the amount of fuel is low. Heat of vaporization. Ever see a "wet" flow bench? Russ Collins, sort of a fuel injection expert, pioneered them for this purpose. FYI motor fuels end point is 430 F. That's the point the heaviest ends evaporate. Under heaviest loads then (WOT) the fuel which is at atmospheric pressure can't fully vaporize. At part throttle the load is so low there isn't enough sensible heat available to drive the valve temperatures very high. A point made in that post. Vaporized liquids are what make swamp coolers work. Your AC or Frig. Swirl and tumble got to be a big deal because fuel doesn't vaporize well in the intake system. It's the reason GDI pressures are so high. Thousands of pounds. Truth is less than 40% of the fuel is a vapor before entering the chamber and it is in the minority. NOACK and oil 'burning' on valve backs. You do know this happens to carbureted motors as well right? Seen in at it's worst in motors with guide wear and/or shot seals that draw raw oil in past the inlet guides. Motors that smoke when you lift. Less a function of PVC systems. They continue to run for decades. Here's the bottom line. IF NOACK was the issue then we would be saying that the vapor temperature (PCV introduced at the valves back side) at the bulk oil level is above 482F and in that case NOACK and valve deposits are the least of our worries. Your talking about oil in the vaporized state, right? Not a mist but literally a vapor like steam is to water. Above the boiling point of the lightest ends at that pressure. Not likely in NORMAL service which brings me to the last point. People that write that drivel making a worst case statement and leaving that little fact out. It is worst case. I saw a 'news' story the other day on CNN. Quote" Will Cosby get the full 30 years?" News doesn't end with a question mark, sensationalization does. Your motor will die if you run unleaded gas in a motor with iron seats was a bust too. Only in extended high load conditions did it have ANY effect at all. For Joe Average is was a non-event. Sold allot of cars and useless machine work however.

Yikes!!!! 40,000 changes? Interesting read too. By pass filters and pre-lube pumps. My dad is 90 now. Still trading cars like baseball cards. Puts in a garden every year. One that would kill a man of 20. Mows his own acre lot by hand. Works on cars and trucks. You get the point. His sister a few years his junior can't get out of bed. Big difference between high mileage and good health. If you have them both your still useful.

I want great oil performance but do not want to pay for it. I don't want to pay for the product and I don't want to change my oil. I've been lied to by the oil companies and their lawyers until the truth is unrecognizable and know it but their marketing and advertising are what I want, no..."need to hear" so I'll keep doing what I've always done. Believe the liar and trade so often it won't make a difference. I get it. Really. We can bang numbers and trade write ups till pigs fly OR I can just believe my eyes. There is a difference between driving a vehicle for say 250K with out a noticeable issue, never having a peek inside, and taking the thing apart, putting it to the band saw and measuring every part that touches oil. As long as I can take a motor down with that many miles on it and have it look like new inside right down to the color of the alloy castings....I'll keep using my self proven choices for lubrication products and my change intervals and filters. The more complicated these motors become and the higher the power density becomes the tighter I will cling to those choices. No I'm not afraid to waste a perfectly good 250K motor to a band saw if I can learn what I need from it. (and the body is junk LOL) That does not mean I have but one choice. If I still had a 200 Ford six in my 67 Mustang I'd still be using Trop-Artic 10W30 and Motorcraft filters changed every 2,500 miles. But as it is what it is; it's Red Line and WIX every 5K until Red Line lies to me or it no longer works. (I would have no issues running Amsoil either).

Then this should amuse you. http://www.sbintl.com/tech_library/articles/tlc_of_your_valves_temperatures_loads_and_corrosive_environment.pdf (quote) Normal temperatures on intakes range from 600° to 800° F in the center of the head of a light duty job to 800°-1000° F for a heavy-duty application. At the seat face, those temperatures range from 200°-400° F on light duty engines, to 400°-600° F on heavy-duty engines. As with seat faces, the under head areas are relatively mild on both types — about 200°-300° F on light duty to 300°-400° F on heavy-duty jobs. (end quote) We are not worried about the combustion side and as for the plenum side...well...not tough duty for Amsoil or Red Line. Many on this site claim no concern at all for bulk oil temperatures over 235F. Which is it? Deal or no Deal? http://www.sbintl.com

Red Line High Performance 0W20 NOACK 9 Red Line High Performance 5W20 NOACK 8 Red Line High Performance 5W30 NOACK 6 Red Line High Performance 10W30 NOACK 6 Question. When do you run your oil at 482 F for an hour? Fresh info. Have a nice day.

Works for me. I also check the strength. Not all 50/50 is actually 50/50 it seems. Shelf life is based on the additive package...maybe Briggs & Stratton is on a kick now recommending that you never need to change your small engine oil. I haven't done the math on the above but it seems enough to keep the additives in check. There are test kits for that if you like. Or use to be anyway.

6L80E holds 12.5 quarts and uses 6 quarts for a dump and fill that includes a filter change. 6.5 qt. of old fluid and 6 qt. of new fluid = 48% new fluid. Install a PML pan that holds 2.5 extra quarts. For the second change 6.5 qt. at 48% = 3.12 qt. + 8.5 new qt. + 11.62 qt. new out of 15 qt. total new capacity or 76.7% new fluid. On the third change 6.5 qt. at 76.7% = 4.98 qt. + 8.5 = 13.48 / 15 = 89.9% new fluid. Call it 90% It takes 10 changes like this to replace 99.97% of the original fluid. 22.5 quarts in this scenario to change 90% of the fluid. In a flush situation the amount to replace 90% of the fluid is near a full barrel of oil! 42 gallons!!! 13% of the flush oil it takes to replace the equivalent amount of dump and flush. At $12.50 a quart that math is easy. Converter takes care of itself. Drop and fill coming up. 90% Red Line, 10% Delco. Out with the Group III and in with the Group IV/V. I love esters.

Red Line (non-race) I just had confirmed has a 10% add pack. It isn't ANY motor oil. If fact a high percentage of it isn't mineral oil at all.

First bar: 45 mph over hilly terrain, cruise control on in tow mode M6 which holds the trans in 5th gear and the AFM is active. Grade logic off. East against same wind as below. 2nd bar: 45 mph over level ground, cruise control on in tow mode M6 held in 5th gear with AFM active. Grade logic on. 3rd bar: 45 mph level ground, cruise on in M5. AFM OFF. Grade logic ON. 4th bar: 45 mph level ground, cruise on in Drive and Grade logic ON. In 5th gear the rpm was right at 1420 rpm. In 6th gear 1148 rpm. Both numbers are a bit high for the math but the clutch lock up isn't active this far below converter stall. There is roughly 100 rpm of slip. 5th bar: 57 mph in drive with a 8-12 mph ESE wind north on I-39. This speed is the same rpm as 5th gear at 45 mph. Runs for bars 2, 3 and 4 were 18.4 mile round trip loops on the flattest, straightest section of secondary highway in my area. Runs N/S and we had a 8-12 mph SE-SSE wind. 72-75F and 93% humidity with a BAR of 29.90. I chose 45 mph as it is a speed the trans will stay in 5th gear with the AFM on or off, my choice, and still allow a sane speed in 6th gear for the same rpm. 50 mph in 5th gear AFM active is above the converter stall speed and it actually does a bit better between 48 and 50 mph in 5th with the AFM active WHEN into a headwind over hilly terrain. The round trip numbers are the total average for that run. The spreads between into the wind and the wind at your back was interesting to observe although I did not jot those numbers down. For instance on the flat and into the wind 5th gear AFM active did a bit better than 6 gear. With the wind at ones back the opposite is true. 6th gear is more efficient. As one might expect the shorter gearing gave a lower difference between into vs at your back wind conditions. The more direct the wind to ones 12 or 6 the more pronounced the effect. No real surprises here directionally. Specifics however help me make better choices of route and run set up. Note: AFM in this test sequence netting a 7% gain under the days conditions in round trip 45 mph runs. Under these conditions the AFM when active was off ONLY during the period of time it took to turn around and reacquire cruse speed. The distance was chosen in part for the fact the time period is to short for the ECU to shut the AFM down due to time-out alone.

As a matter a fact it is Cliff. Nothing subjective about it and still mind numbingly low. Why? Red Line (non-race) is a blend of PAO and an Ester. A good percentage of the can is an ester. It also has no more trouble holding the add pack than the original Mobil 1 which was 100% PAO or Amsoil Signature Series, also and still a full PAO. (both minus the add carrier oil) There is very little VI suppression in a Red Line 0W20, again due to the high loading of esters which also account for the high VI. Low total add percentage. My post and reply to Red Line below FYI: Marty, The ASTM CCS test procedure is D5293. The test procedure isn’t included on the data sheet for space consideration, when referring to the cold cranking simulator that is the procedure referenced. I don’t currently have an “A” for sale, we now have a total of 4, though ocassionally hear about one available locally. Regards, Dave Granquist P: (+1) 707.751.2914 | O: (+1) 707.745.6100 | 6100 Egret Ct | Benicia, CA 94510 Red Line Synthetic Oil Check us out at the industry’s biggest trade shows! Click links to see show floor plan AIM Expo, Oct 11-14 in Las Vegas: Booth 2549 SEMA, Oct 30-Nov 2 in Las Vegas: Booth 22525 PRI, Dec 6-8 in Indy: Booth 1709 From: Marty N <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2018 6:32 PM To: Granquist, David <[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Test question: That Redliine CCS is not a number derived from the industry standard ATSM D5293 cold crank simulator testing protocol. It really means little in terms of comparison. A 172 VI is nice but many other oils have VI's in that range. Pour point is good, but it is the CCS that really is more important. And without showing the ASTM D5293 testing number of that CCS, "mind numbing" is purely subjective. Dave: I got the above in reply (in part) to a post at GM-Trucks.com I made on lubrication. I note that the data sheet does not actually site the ATSM test sequence used. That said I can’t imagine the fellow making this reply has inside information. I can also not imagine Red Line pencil whipping a non-standard test method. Could use your help on this one if you please. Side not on a different topic. Last time we exchanged post I was talking about an “A” I was looking at and it didn’t occur to me until sometime later that your reply might have indicated you might be parting with yours? Did I miss that? Is yours for sale? Regards Marty

Where are you getting that information?

This is by month over 2 years. All down hill from here. About time to get the fall detail and sealing done.

So out this evening in the rain and into a 10 mph head wind I put Pepper in tow mode, M5. Set the cruise to 55 mph then slipped the selector into M6. This engages the AFM while locking the transmission into 5th gear. With my 3.23 final drive this simulates running a 4.10 gear in 6th gear with an active AFM. Observations. 29.5 mpg over about 100 miles at 55 mph, a 2.5 mpg loss over 6th gear Auto on a calm day, or 8.5%. About the same as running 60 mph in auto. Thing is it will do this into a head wind that would have 6th gear down to under 26 mpg. So a net gain into a head wind. In addition doing so I saw zero torque induced spark retard and one and only one occasion for ANY knock related spark retard. 87 octane/9% measure ethanal fuel load. That one was 3.5 degrees for about 50 feet on a overpass ramp. Right around 1700 rpm at stated speed on stock tires. Loafing still. It was a cool day so oil and trans temperatures were moderate. 204 and 148 F respectively. Hills that would have the trans kicking back remained in top gear lug free. My guess is the 3.73 gear would be about perfect and allow 60 mph with similar results. Part of my planning stage. Last three years September economy numbers with a solid improvement each year under every more demanding conditions. Higher speeds. More AC and the like. 15% second year over first and another 6.4% third year over second. I'd say there is little low hanging fruit left in this tree. 22% third year over first.

Night lights make some pretty photos' eh? Just a nice ride and I'm not a big fan of black out anything. So this is special.

Had no idea Rex was a Cub fan. Wife dislikes dog hair cleaning. Got the first chip in the tailgate. That didn't take long. $600 up in smoke.

60 MPH-MPG Test. A note to myself: Within spitting distance of Champaign Illinois on this outing for a total of 333 miles using 10.78 gallons of fuel = 30.2 MPG What is different? For this trip the speed was 60 mph. I wanted to know what effect a simple 5 mph increase would have on her and given the day was as identical to the last few as God makes them it seemed the right time to get it done. Rain is forecast for tomorrow. 92 F, 36% humidity. Winds light and variable. Terrain undulated. Road Interstates I-39, I-55 and I-74. Traffic moderate. A/C off. It's only one tank but against the last thousand miles at 55 mph this represents a 6.8% loss. The speed increase raised the oil and trans temperatures a to my self imposed limits. 210 F oil, 160 F (173 F peak) Trans. Temp always spikes a bit when you leave the Interstate for a break. Odd note. Traveling 55 mph to Des Moines netted a 55 mph average. 60 mph to Champaign netted 57 mph average. Faster isn't always that much faster. AFM shuts off earlier on the hill at this speed by a good distance compared to 55 mph on the same grades. No surprise there. Trucks are not air friendly. Harvest is in full swing starting today. It will be impossible to keep Pepper clean until they are done and we have a decent rain.

William Frederick "Buffalo Bill" Cody The Cody Homestead was Saturdays outing for the Mrs., Rex and I. South of Le Claire Iowa just a few miles off the Great River Road. US 67. $2 a head self guided tour. The Limestone portion was built by German Craftsman in 1847 under the direction of Isaac Cody, Bill's father. The American Black Walnut flooring and trim is original as is the plaster and lath. Talk about built to last. Take that Pergo!! Yes sir, we've come a long way.....backward. Tell me again how everything is built better today?? The later wood framed structure was added by the McCausland family that bought it and founded the Iowa town of the same name.

Done Luke. It's official. See heavy edits to post above. 1031 miles using 31.827 gallons = 32.4 mpg mostly Interstate

Now that is useful information. Thanks Dan!

70,000 Mile Service Routine oil change. 5W20 Quaker State UD and WIX filter. No usage observed for this 5,000 mile period. Balance and rotate. 70K and counting. Yea!!! General check over. Clean bill of health. Bottle of Chevron Techron to the tank.

10,278 miles from summers start till now / 350 gallons of fuel = 29.39 MPG. A fluke? 32 mpg a new one tank calculated average. One of only four tanks that are 31 mpg or better. Only second one outside two standard deviations. Since the last service I've upped tire pressures twice and now at name plate value once again sacrificing ride for efficiency and note that this is the first time I put all fuel efficiency values in play at the same time. This little town to my west has a declining speed limit. 55 then 45 then 35 and finial is 30 mph. If I'm actually doing 45 when I cross the 45 mph sign I click off the cruise and coast into town hitting each marker perfectly at it's sign save the last which I've been at for about a city block before hand. This was at 28 psi. At 35 psi, she rolls one city block further before slowing to 30 mph and on cue. I'm a bit over the limit at each sign before. If you know the trucks weight and the time it takes to coast down you can calculate the horsepower dissipated by all frictional losses. Something I leaned from Jacobson Electronics decades ago. For now longer is lower losses and by a considerable amount it seems. There was about four cold starts on this last tank thus room to improve. Remember I avoid town diving like a case of typhoid. Ditto short hopping. 50 mile minimum or the key doesn't get a turn. (Assuming the wife's permission of course ) Now it I could sit for the full time. Those days may be behind me. What would I do with a 35+ gallon tank? Two more tanks to verify this isn't fill error driven. Repeated 32.98 with a 32.16 the took the gloves off and sat still for an entire 1/2 tank. 33.34 MPG New one tank average. (Add in revised chart above). 36.5 mpg new peak level ground nil wind number. 90 F day. 40% humidity. 0-3 mph South wind. 208-210 F oil. 182-186F water, 148-156 trans. All interstate miles for this tank save the 15 from I-39 to my home station 1.8 miles from the house. 55 mph cruise control. A/C off, windows open. Beautiful day!!! Have had three in a row. Tire pressure increase to name plate at 64 F ambient. Trip in two legs with one 7 minute break. All Interstate miles. Cedar Rapids to Iowa City then west to Grinnell (Close to Des Moines) then return east along I-80 to north I-39 and home to the Rockford Illinois area.

I had her on the lift again today in 'sunlight' so I could really examine those tires. Yea....it's going to be awhile yet before we need tires me thinks. Not as bad as my first on the pavement with a flashlight look. What I'm looking at is a pressure whose average was to low. Was 35, down to 28 and now 32 is my target and boy can I feel the difference. That said, my efforts find replacements continue frustrated. You know my take on 'consumer reviews'. A zillion people with no expertise whose opines are clouded by their inexperience and unrealistic expectations rendering it all useless drivel. the few that do know are buried in the mire. Consumer Reports can't seem to make up their minds and change their order of best to worse seemingly without rhyme or reason every time I look. Dedicated tire sales reviews like Tire Rack...no bias their eh? Ditto truck and auto rags. Ten miles deep in stink without oar or rudder. Best advise I have so far is....rinse and repeat. (James Thx) Rims. I gave this a look some time back. Weight and aero closure would be my main reasons for a change. Nothing I've looked at is filling that bill any better than the shoes she wears. There is a Caddy steel that Lake Moons would look good on but I can't find enough info on them to get a grip. Back spacing and all. I have time.