OldChevyNut

Because I no longer own a GM vehicle, I'll be leaving the forum. But as a last response, Yes, the GM profile system, the GM programming algorithm and the rather large memory capability of the control unit means that driver habits are recorded and used in slightly altering vehicle operation. Unfortunately, because the current trend is "fuel economy", this usually means that "adaptive" translates to sluggish. In my current vehicle, an F-150 5.0 10 speed, it drove great to begin with, but after the first 1000 miles or so it became sluggish when accelerating from lights, did more gear skipping (non-sequential up-shifting), and generally required mode changes (Eco, Normal, Sport, etc) to get some of the performance back. And the characteristics of "adaptive" seem to permanently remain as long as the control unit has power. Simply turning off the engine does nothing to change any of the stored data. However, we have learned that we CAN force the control unit to begin "re-learn" by removing and re-inserting the power fuse for the controller (in our vehicle it's fuse 109 I think, but check your own vehicle system). This basically gets rid of the sluggish operation in "Normal" mode until re-learning is once again completed. But then again, I have no problem driving conservatively and saving fuel so I think I let it learn and leave it that way. If more performance is desired, I'll simply switch modes. I wish you all the luck in the world with your GM vehicle.

For worldaccordingtojim, I disagree about how you regard the transmission "learning". It's actually referred to an "Adaptive" transmission, it's been around for a couple of decades, and it's not alone. Ford 8 speed and 10 speed have the same feature, as does the new GM Allison 10 speed and the 8 speed ZF 8 used in many Ram products and European vehicles. In 2019 GM vehicles, I'd highly recommend you setup your operator profile and assign it to a key fob ID, so the vehicle can begin learning how you operate the vehicle. From the time you establish the profile, your driving habits will be recorded and used for altering transmission characteristics during vehicle use, such as shift points. If a second person operates the vehicle, that person should also create their own profile and assign the other key fob ID. If more than 2 persons operate the vehicle, the 3rd (and any other operators) may also need to create profiles and assign a specific key fob ID, otherwise, as they operate the vehicle the way they want, that data may indeed corrupt the profiles of operator 1 or 2. If you don't establish a profile, the factory default settings are used from the moment the vehicle was taken out of "Transport" mode during dealer prep. By the way, the operator profiles save a lot more data than just usage information, like all of the available entertainment (AM, FM, Syrius) and communication (Apple, Blue Tooth, etc) preferences. So once you understand what it can provide, the operator profile can be a very desirable feature.

For wizard4878, Glad to hear your vehicle is doing good, and I wish you the best of luck in the future. Actually, ALL TSB's on 8L45 and 8L90 have been cancelled. The 6 speed was much more likely to shudder, usually going from 2nd to 3rd and having problems selecting which gear. The 8 speed had a similar problem, plus others. But since the introduction of some "better-late-than-never" product changes, proper diagnostic test equipment distributed to every dealer, and the still-continuing re-formulation of a suitable transmission fluid, vehicles manufactured after 2-16-19 and equipped with a 8L45 or 8L90 are SUPPOSED to be trouble-free. Too bad mine wasn't, but it's gone now (buy back following litigation) so I shouldn't speak badly of the dead. By the way, the 4L60E was fairly reliable, but the 4T60(E) was a major reliability nightmare for GM.

5.7 or 6.4 Hemi with a ZF 8 (8F70/8F75) is a great package. Basically a 6 speed unit with 7th and 8th being OD for highway use. High first gear ratio is good for hauling/towing, which is what a truck is for, right ?? But real-world mpg numbers in the 13 range, high MSRP's in the 60K-85K range, and marginal/poor dealer services make buying one a chancy proposition. After renting a well-equipped Laramie 5.7 for 4 days to do a real test drive, I didn't buy.

For Snuff: I no longer own a GM vehicle, and currently own a Ford F-150 XLT Crew 5.0 10-speed plus the usual goodies. I have no problems of any sort with the vehicle (except for keeping it clean), but have just over 1100 miles on it. Because I received a notification regarding this post, today I spoke with 2 of my former colleagues at the GM Transmission plant in Romulus, Michigan (where I was employed prior to retirement). From what I've been told, GM engineers keep track of Ford-reported issues because the GM 10 speed unit is functionally nearly identical. Ford has reported low-occurrence issues with rough shifting and "gear searching" in less than 2% of vehicles with 10 speed transmissions returned for service. I've been told both issues have been resolved, with a single TSB issued for the rough shifting issue. Like the GM 8 speed, the Ford 10 speed is an adaptive unit, where the user driving habits are recorded and used when the same user operates the vehicle, and Ford finds that when the vehicles have been driven for approximately 800 miles or more, the occurrence of owner-reported "gear searching" issues is virtually eliminated. Because I know the Ford 10 speed has been getting very positive results from using the 10 speed in F-150 and Ranger vehicles, and that I did considerable research into history of the unit prior to my recent purchase, I would recommend it without reservation. I cannot say the same for any previously existing version of the GM 8 speed unit. However, I was told the NEW GM 8 speed transmission, earmarked for use in Silverado 2500 vehicles, is a new design, not just a warmed-over version of the 8L90. I'm also told the new Allison 10 speed unit earmarked for Silverado 3500 vehicles is testing to be far superior to the existing 8L90 8 speed or even the GM 10 speed. And I was told that certain 2020 GMC Sierra 1500 models will offer the GM 10 speed as an option, even on 5.3 liter engines but not with 2-wheel drive. I was not told if a similar option would appear for the 2020 Chevrolet version. I'm not sure if any of the above helps with your 2019 decision, but it's about all I could find out on short notice. But if it were me, and I needed a truck now, it would be the Ford. If I could wait 4-5 months, I'd check-out the 2020 GMC Sierra with a 10 speed option. I would not buy a GM 2019 with an 8 speed under any circumstance. BTW, here's a couple of the news release links I found that back-up the info I was given on the 2020 GMC Sierra 1500. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2020-gmc-sierra-1500-technology-powertrain-updates/ https://media.gmc.com/media/us/en/gmc/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2019/may/0517-gmc.html

I agree with Hillwood's statement 100%

As a comment for Mr. Rutherford's persistent vibration problem, the vehicle should be capable of reaching the computer-controlled maximum-allowed speed of about 125 mph without noticeable vibration. Just think, cop vehicles do it all the time, but their speed limiter is usually set for 140 mph or higher. Vibration such as you describe is generally caused by a rotating mass. Objects with a small diameter usually develop less vibration than objects of a large diameter, so when trying to find out what causes a given problem, start with checking things with large diameters. In the transmission area, the object having the largest diameter is the torque converter. But then again, the transmission may not be the only source of excessive vibration. In most cases that I'm aware of, tires and suspension components are the most common causes of high vibration levels. Virtually every dealer can check vibration levels by attaching sensors at specific points on a vehicle, then using a fairly common device that picks-up the sensor readings under a road test and displays results by the frequency (in Hz) and intensity of the vibration. Then the tech looks into a book, finds what can cause vibration at the noted frequency, and then further work is directed at the suspected vibration source. At least, that's how it's supposed to work, and it can be a laborious and costly process of testing, fixing, retesting. The dealer(s) should have started by testing the vehicle as above, then simply fixing the vibration sources and retesting until all vibration levels are withing factory levels. But by your comment, this didn't happen. So you're probably getting a dealer doing some amount of work with tires, driveshafts, etc, without doing any testing and having no idea what the real problem is. And when they think they've done enough, you'll get statements like "normal vibration" simply because the dealer doesn't want to spend the time and money to fix it. Under such conditions, the best advice I can give is to continue taking the vehicle to the dealer, or a different dealer, documenting the condition and the vehicle mileage when the issue was first reported for warranty purposes, then insist the dealer test and repair the problem and even put "normal vibration" statements in WRITING. Do this many times, keeping all records associated with each dealer visit, and after many attempts to correct the condition, if problems persist, file for resolution via "lemon law" mechanisms such as arbitration or even litigation. But I wouldn't continue to drive any vehicle with such an obvious defect. I would insist they either fix it or buy it back. But then again, that's just me.

There are reasonably available resources that can be used to estimate past and future vehicle resale value trends. Among them is KBB.com (check it out ?), but I'm sure there are many others because prior to retirement I used them. Since 2017, Silverado has gone from 3rd to 4th, and for many it seems that the product line will continue it's current downward trend as far as vehicle resale value. And for the Colorado/Canyon platform, according to the KBB data, it seems the downward slope is much steeper, especially in 3rd qtr 17. I got rid of my GM products. And prior to the events of the recent past I would have said to anyone else "decide for yourself", but because I have gained so much objective evidence, I sometimes feel it's appropriate to voice my opinion. I also personally feel that GM is continuing to produce this transmission because there is such a large percentage of potential buyers that are still willing to purchase marginal or defective product. Perhaps because their dad always had GM's, perhaps their friends like them, maybe because they simply think it looks cool, whatever. But as long as GM can produce marginal or defective products and sell it, they'll have little or no motivation to correct issues. As a young engineer fresh out of college I once worked for GM, and I enjoyed my tenure with them. However the world has changed, and perhaps I'm unrealistic to expect quality and reliability to be something more than long-forgotten words. But, to use plain english, I was really pissed when a brand new Canyon couldn't go 1100 miles before the transmission died. So if you know anyone with a low mileage 2011 Lincoln Town Car, let me know and I'll buy it and drive it for another few hundred thousand miles, or maybe more ?

In our region, it can take as little as 40 days from the date of filing to the date of the arbitrators decision. Or it can take much longer. If you agreed to binding arbitration as an element of the vehicle purchase contract, you'll be bound by the requirements for that process. If you did not agree to arbitration, the most commonly used course of action is through the courts and legal system. And remember, "buy-back" is only 1 of several possible adjudications or decisions. In fact, in my experience, the most commonly used decision is to continue with a repair process. However, there seems to be growing movement among some dealerships to use the term "buy-back" without going through any legal process, and they make you think they're doing you a favor in doing so. In actuality, they're simply are purchasing a used vehicle, at trade-in value or less, with little or no regard to actual market value or a value that may have been determined by calculating the vehicle purchase price minus a usage factor as is used in arbitration. I hope I've adequately answered your question ...

Perhaps I've overstated the truth, but because GM knowingly produced product which included serious functional defects, can facts and truths EVER be truly be overstated when consumers continue to suffer and management continues to bask on sunny beaches ??? I think not ...

From information available as of the date of this comment, MQE 8-speed will be options used in 2.7 I4's and 5.3 V8 with DFM. MYC 6-speed will be standard with the same engines under RPO's LV3 and L82 (basic light duty vehicles). A GM version of the Ford 10 speed has been in use in certain vehicles equipped with 6.2 V8's since 2017, with significant problems beginning to appear. Beyond slight trim and and option changes, nothing will change in drive-trains for mid-sized trucks until a planned re-design to be introduced in 2022. At that time, a GM light-duty version of the Ford 10 speed MIGHT be an option. In case you didn't already know, all the TSB's for the 8L90 and 8L45 have been cancelled for vehicles manufactured beyond a specific date (2-16-19 ??). GM now says that "It's fixed", or "There is nothing wrong", or "It's NORMAL". Most dealers won't even look at it unless they see a warning light on the dash or codes readable through the OBD port. And as of 4-10-19, formulations of transmission fluids continue to be revised. For anyone purchasing a GM vehicle, in virtually every model transmission you should be prepared for significant transmission problems. And because the problems have become so public, you can expect the resale values of a GM vehicle to be much lower than similar vehicles from other makers. Any way you look at it, you lose.

To fully describe the events that provided evidence to support my statements, it may take many pages of comment verbiage and many hours of typing, so to keep my response reasonably brief: Yes, all of the objective evidence we have collected has been used to assist a member of my extended family to resolve their issue with a GM vehicle they purchased. The case has been resolved through litigation and the evidence collected has been made a part of case history. We collected a considerable amount of documentation about the 8L45 unit that was the source of the issues in the case vehicle, but according to GM statements and documentation, to a large extent the 8L45 is simply a modification of other model units produced previously, such as the 6L45/6L50 unit, and the 5L40 and 5L50 models. So, to be able to show that GM knowingly produced a product having known defects, and that my relatives unknowingly purchased a vehicle having a defective transmission, we were faced with wading through huge amounts of documentation, service records, previous testimony, and court transcripts of other similar cases. Because it seemed a daunting task, additional help was hired, including investigators and legal counsel. We even had a few para-legal volunteers helping. From start to finish, the process took just over 18 months, large sums of money, and many sleepless nights to accumulate what we felt was enough evidence to make our case. And I'm glad to say that the outcome was a settlement for GM buy-back at just over 91% of the original purchase contract cost. (By the time the case was settled, just under 10,000 miles had accumulated on the vehicle before the transmission became functionally inoperable, so buy-back amount was reduced accordingly.) Going into this I had no intention or desire to defame GM in any way: I was simply trying to accommodate a relative. Following college, there was even a time in which I was happily employed by GM, and I know to this day that they can produce virtually anything that will exceed applicable requirements. But as I reviewed documentation and petitioned for clarification from GM sources, I found out the truth about what ultimately became the 8L45 unit, and I was a little angry knowing that everything we found wasn't simply a fluke in a single unit, but represented conditions and defects that are in fact present in every unit produced. Since then I've been somewhat involved in 2 other cases that went though (and are going through) the arbitration process here on the west coast. One has been settled (buy-back), one is still pending (initial filing 4-15-19). But now I have politely turned-down requests to be involved in other cases, and fully plan to get back to a life of retirement that promises a more sedentary lifestyle. I still believe the Colorado/Canyon product line has many strong points, some that go back to the Isuzu product from which it was developed, and could be a very good product if GM would just get off their corporate behind and equip the vehicle with a reliable transmission. And although every transmission produced has defects, not every user will experience complete vehicle failure because of several possible conditions of vehicle usage that can mask serious transmission problems, or even that operators may be unable to recognize a malfunction when it occurs. Such as, they may no realize that shuddering is a defect, or their dealer may simply tell lie to them and say "Oh, that's normal", and the innocent person may believe the dealer. And from information we've accumulated, the latter occurs every day ... As a side note, a vehicle my wife recently purchased, a 2019 GMC Canyon SLT for use in hauling her craft materials and items, has been sold back to GM, and I no longer own a GM product of any kind. While both myself and my wife operated it, the transmission exhibited symptoms of shuddering, hard shifting, and ultimately suffered failure where it refused to shift from 2nd gear into 3rd gear and was delivered back to the dealer on a flat-bed truck. All was documented as verified conditions by GM Technical staff members (NOT Dealer service personnel). The odometer read less than 1100 miles and the manufacture date of the vehicle was 2-16-2019, which makes it a very recently produced vehicle. So it's safe to say that, up to the time I no longer had possession of the vehicle, transmission problems were still present, at least on the vehicle we should have never purchased.

I've contacted a close friend and former colleague , an engineer at Romulus, and from his information the answer is NO, the core problems with the 8L45 and 8L90 transmissions have NOT been corrected. I HAVE been advised that ALL TSB's have been CANCELLED for all Colorado/Canyon product using the 8L45 transmission, where the vehicle was assembled on or after 2-16-2019. I was not advised as to what services, processes, replacements, or repairs may or may not be performed under vehicle drive-train warranty for vehicles manufactured prior to 2-16-2019. (I asked, but my friend was prohibited from commenting on that question !) But it is my personal opinion (and nothing more !) that GM may continue to provide limited "band-aid" repair services until warranties run out. From then on, owners will be stuck with 8L45 8L90 transmission problems that cannot be fixed. I was, however, informed that GM will be re-locating the manufacture of 8L45 and 8L90 transmissions to an undisclosed "off-shore" manufacturing plant. I was not told when this would occur, or which components or sub-assemblies may already have been transferred "off-shore". However I WAS told that GM and union talks, to include this change, will be conducted very soon. (And the union reps are already PISSED !!!) By the way, on the Ford/GM 10-speed transmission, my friend at Romulus has been assigned to assist with an issue with shifting issues between 3rd and 4th gear on the GM version of that transmission, which in 10L80 form, is currently being produced at Romulus and is being installed in certain Chevrolet and GMC vehicles. (I THINK Romulus also makes the 10L90, RPO MX0, a slightly heavier duty version of the 10-speed, but that's one of the thing they weren't supposed to talk about.) So the 10-speed transmission may also have issues and should not be considered a "cure-all". By the way, for my relatives and their mid-sized GM truck, they were awarded "buy-back" for about 91% of the retail contract price and the vehicle has been surrendered. They have subsequently purchased a new full-sized 2019 Ford F-150 XL 5.0 liter V8 10-speed with specific options (tow package, locking differential, etc). In early April 2019, they paid $39,253.00 before tax and license and registration costs for the F-150, which is very slightly LESS than the purchase price they paid for their problem-ridden mid-sized GM truck. And following several dealer visits to have transmission problems corrected (unsuccessfully), I have sold my 2019 GMC Canyon SLT under a "full price, cash buy-back" agreement that was reached outside of any litigation process. Because I have lost faith in GM's ability to produce a long-term reliable product, I doubt I will be buying ANY GM product in the foreseeable future. And it's a shame ...

Windows open, smells go away faster, windows closed, smells last much longer. Unfortunately, most owners drive with all windows up all the time. If you have the option to "recirculate" inside air on your climate control, leaving it off to allow outside air into the vehicle will help dissipate the smell, and in fact, serves the same purpose as leaving a window open a slight amount. Many think that the smells come from polymer-based materials (plastics) used in vehicle interiors, but many studies have proven this to not be the case. The great majority of smells come from other sources, even from natural materials used in the vehicle. But then again, so many new materials are created every year, it's becoming much harder to tell exactly where the smells come from, and whether or not the materials being inhaled could be potentially harmful.

To the best of my knowledge and experience, the posting I made provides factual guidance for initiating and conducting an arbitration process, and I make no apology to anyone for what I posted. In making the posting, I did so because I have considerable knowledge of the arbitration process gained prior to retirement, and a relative asked me to make a synopsis of the general process available on-line. Her best friends had a 2017 Colorado V6 8 speed (8L45) that exhibited shuddering and rough shifting, and had seen extensive repair attempts with several dealerships being involved. When they ultimately wanted to begin the arbitration process, they encountered many roadblocks because they had no information guidelines to go by. Also, prior to retirement, I have worked for Ford at the Romulus plant as a contract engineer in flow processes, and while doing so, gained information on the 8L90/8L45 series that described internal design characteristics that will produce some level of operational and reliability issues sometime with the useful life of the EVERY unit. GM knew of the problems very early (2014, perhaps before ?), but at the time, were pressured to get something on the market, so a flawed unit was released for use and basically the same unit is still being produced today. DESIGN FLAWS EXIST IN EVERY UNIT. THAT'S A WELL DOCUMENTED FACT. The severity of problems encountered will vary from unit to unit, from almost no problems, to very severe problems. And one of the compounding issues is that many owners simply ignore or fail to recognize unusual or problematic operation, or operate the vehicle in circumstances where issues are less likely to surface or the severity of issue will be less, and those owners never report issues and/or continue to claim that nothing is wrong. I wish no ill will to anyone, and if someone chooses to purchase one of the affected vehicles, I very much wish the best of luck with the vehicle. But I also know that new vehicle owners will have a 1-in-5 chance of getting a unit that will exhibit SERIOUS OPERATIONAL AND RELIABILITY PROBLEMS, sometimes very soon after delivery but in most cases with 12,000 miles. And unfortunately in some cases, the only recourse is to begin the arbitration process for problems that have been acknowledged by the manufacturer as not fixable. In those cases, I very much hope my general description of the arbitration process will be helpful, but because exact conditions and requirements and processes vary from region to region, I also recommend obtaining specific information on the requirements applicable in the region in which they reside. By the way, my relatives friends won their case, and were awarded buy-back. However, because they first took the vehicle in for repair at 9,233 miles instead of when they first noticed problems at about 1,000 miles, the amount paid was far less than the amount they could have received had they reported the problem at first occurrence. So a word to the wise, at the first sign of an issue take it to your dealer and formalize the mileage at which the issue was first reported. This applies to ANY issue with the vehicle, not just the on-going serious problems with the GM 8L45/8L90 transmissions. This information just may become very important later on.