Chuck FB

I doubt two wheel drive pickups are a hot seller off the new vehicle lot in your area !, I highly doubt any of the dealers around here have brought in one two wheel drive pickup for many years as that four wheel drive system isn't along for the ride here or I can well imagine in Vermont during the winter. Of course some of our more poorly maintained gravel roads are so bad that during the summer if it rains a person could get stuck right in the middle of a gravel road in two wheel drive LOL.

Definitely its a habit to get into, every so often go through the motions of both high range and low range and allow it to rotate over for some distance to coat all the surfaces with oil that otherwise may not receive any otherwise and like was said to coat and work the seals etc. I too am doing it on a non busy gravel road during the summer or come winter again the snow covered gravel road simply because its not busy and can mess around putting it into four low. Of course I am using four wheel high range quite often for portions of each drive all winter which would be different then one who lives in an area where unless going off roading the four wheel drive almost never gets used.

Indeed that photo makes me laugh as its almost comical in a sense when I think about Christmas at a certain brother inlaws as he turns on the tv and puts it to the burning fire place channel, an image of reality but yet far from reality in what it accomplishes in any physicals sense. When I search for answers to what is the optimum oil level in which to run an engine, of no surprise it states that its NOT ideal to run the engine constantly at the add mark but IS ideal for the longevity of the engine to run the oil level at or near the full mark on the dipstick. While its fairly typical although not written in stone as per the one quart difference between full and add on what I would refer to as a full size vehicle engine, as one goes up in engine size for trucks, field tractors, other industrial equipment etc and the oil capacity increases they stretch out the volume between full and add. Typically highway tractor engines tend to be a gallon of oil and that may be 1 tenth of the total engines oil volume. Looking back at the older GM full size pickup engines, some of them only held hardly over 4 quarts ... that 1 quart low was taking 25% of the total oils volume away and no wonder they started bumping up the total oil volume with a larger sump on pans for the same engine platform to help the engine and retain the oils integrity to increase the odds of the engines life span.

I did a search outside of this forum and came across a thread from this forum from two years ago which was amusing but one I recall now from a trusted member who had himself had to add a quart on his brand new truck to bring it up to near the level plug level. Then after accumulating 5000 or so miles on the truck he pulled the cover to drain it out and wiped out the bottom of the diff housing and put the factory cover back on and in his case it took exactly 4 quarts to bring it up to within that 4/10 of an inch below the fill/level check plug, far more than the GM spec. That is a big difference between that GM spec ( which is why the GM diffs are below the level they themselves say they should be when coming out of the factory ) vs what amounts to around 8 pints of oil. My own truck when I first got it home from new, I had not measured how much volume mine took since I used a hand pump on a 6 gallon pail of gear oil to top it off but I had measured it by using a bent wire on the flat shop floor after the truck sat overnight and a ruler and it was exactly 1" below the bottom of the fill hole on the rear diff. That fell right into line with what others have measured from a factory filled rear diff on these HD trucks, however the GM instructions are to fill from within between 4/10" of an inch or up to the bottom of the fill/level check hole as the full range. So that is why it alarmed me when you mentioned not seeing any oil in that window although I wasn't sure if that diff cover held the exact same amount as the factory cover so can only speculate its probably very close to retain the same oil flow characteristics over the top that the ring gear provides with the factory curved cover vs some of these odd flat back diff covers ( the whole video Gale does on that about some of the goofy after market covers out there ).

Yes I read that as well on their website and its all in how its interpreted for one thing and I believe the GM spec itself does not call for enough volume to bring the oil level up to the bottom of the factory covers fill/level port which also is puzzling. Banks are also bouncing between two different truck makes in the instructions since both the Ram and the GM use AAM axles with those instructions. The problem with not seeing the oil in the window is that one has no idea where the actual level is. Certainly anyone else on here reading this and having worked with the banks covers should chime in as they may have more information to provide. I am just simply concerned because I don't want to see someone underfill the diff as its not just the diff that is critical to lubrication, its the wheel end bearings. The dealership I bought my truck from had two HD pickups a while back have their rear wheel bearings fail because of being too severely underfilled at the factory and no one had checked and topped them off at the dealer but luckily warranty paid for a whole new complete axle housing as it mangled the axle housing spindles when the bearings failed and sent metal throughout the whole diff.

That is an odd comment Banks would have about the volume given that the sight glass is there for the specific reason to allow for not only bringing the level to that range but to visually be able to check at any time that the diff has a sufficient level. I know its been commented that what GM claims is the volume required for the rear diff ends up falling short of what it actually takes if filling it to the bottom of the factory level plug, and the fact that GM ( actually the axle manufacturer ) is underfilling the diff at their factory below their own specs as mine was as well which has been a whole other issue and is leaving the oil down almost a quart low from full. As I read about the Banks cover instructions right on their webpage, they do say to go by the sight glass ( half way up the sight glass on level ground ) unless the vehicle has had the pinion angle changed due to a lift etc that throws off the factory pinion angle. I'll put it this way, if I installed a Banks cover on my own stock truck I would fill it half way up the window and then recheck after the truck has been driven and sat for hours while sitting on level ground to confirm the level.

That's certainly good to hear that there was nothing alarming on the cover magnet volume wise or chunk wise of metal. I don't recall if the Banks cover holds more oil than the factor cover, what volume did you estimate that it took ?. As to the transfer case I assume you bought whatever brand you wanted of a Dexron VI automatic transmission fluid. Have you changed the automatic trans fluid at some point and actually I don't recall if your truck is the gas or diesel version as that makes the difference as to which transmission and oil type is required in 2023. The problem with my truck is that its the gas engine with the 10 speed and I've not yet attempted to see if I can drop the pan as the silly exhaust is right in the way and I do not want to touch the exhaust system on the manifold end if I can help it, the diesel does not have the Y pipe style exhaust under the pan so is not an issue to remove the pan.

In the top photo, option E ( the bottom dipstick ), I always find very satisfying for some reason after I've run the engine to fill the filter and after a period of time check the level and see that hard to see translucent oil at the area of the full mark ( and typically check the next morning to confirm the exact settled level ).

There are probably a few factors involved with the higher oil capacity of newer engines that have a similar engine displacement relative to older engines as well as the smaller turbo pickup engines with a higher capacity for their engine cubic inch size. More oil giving a longer engine run time before the oil is contaminated and sheared down etc. More cooling available with more volume. More oil consumption cushion before bad things happen. The horsepower newer engines put out would certainly play into the higher volume of oil that helps control the temperatures as after all engines of a similar size putting out twice the horse power means more fuel used and more heat created requiring a better coolant package with coolant and oil with oil cooler etc. To show the engineered difference for example in oil volume for the very same engine series/block/cubic inch displacement on a JD four wheel drive tractor I have that is rated at 425 hp it has an oil capacity/pan sized for 44 quarts, the largest series of tractor of that time was rated for 530 hp and had a pan capacity of 63.5 quarts.

Here's an example of how a do it yourselfer or even a shop could end up over filling the crank case during an oil change. Drop the oil on ether an almost cold engine or they did warm it up as it was a vehicle that sat in a lineup of vehicles that require repairs, they drop the oil and let that drip out as they then proceed onto do other repairs and finally lowered down off the lift and fill the now cold engine with oil, run it the half minute or less, turn off and are in a rush and check the oil level and its low ( cold engine and cold oil haven't had a chance to all drain back to the pan ) so they add oil until its at the full mark on the dipstick and then close the hood and send it out the door. The owner of the vehicle if they don't check it or seldom check it would not have a clue that the oil started out being above full. Same scenario with the do it yourselfer that is too quick to check the oil after running the engine and tops it off and never checks it again for some thousands of miles and finds the oil at or near the full mark and is impressed his vehicle uses no oil when in fact it does use some but the technique of the oil change allowed for an over fill and was not rechecked hours later to confirm the level with a cold engine and oil that had all drained back to the pan. And the thing is, its easily done if not realizing or just in a hurry and in shops time is money so there is no waiting around hours for the oil to finally drain down on a cold engine.

I know when I was looking around last year to see if someone handled Amsoil gear oil to buy at the retail level which of course means full price. I found an independent shop that works a lot on GM/Duramax pickups and they did not bring in the 75W-85 as they just stuck to the 75W-90 for the front and rear as a standard practice for the HD trucks which makes sense anyway for the higher hp/torque diesel and pulling heavy loads in four wheel drive. I haven't changed my diff oils yet but still plan on using the 75W-85 for the front diff as I highly doubt I will be beating on the truck and figured for my use type the bit thinner oil would be to my benefit for the winter for that slightly less drag. Very different weather here all winter vs northern Washington near the coast, that's for sure.

Ok that confirms the extra quart theme they are still going with which must mean they have noted some initial use more so then some engines and probably the bigger factor in all of this probably isn't the engine so much as its the insane distance or OLM that lulls a lot of the driving public into driving their new vehicle off the lot and not even doing one short interval oil change because the manufacturer doesn't say different and if the dealer follows that logic as well. Selling the rarely needing to be serviced concept seems to go over well with the public that wants to get away with as little as possible for dollars spent on the vehicles maintenance and I bet there are 3.0 engines just like other vehicles out there that never have their oil checked by the owner which goes back to why they probably felt the need to add that extra quart to avoid a costly theme. Speaking of cutting filters open, it was probably over two years ago now that a youtuber who buys vehicles to do longer term reviews and pulls a fifth wheel through the mountains of Colorado on summer trips and that becomes part of the testing. Anyway he had a GM HD with the 6.6 gas and a Ford 250 with the 7.3 gas at the same time and of no surprise the Ford had more power etc but somewhere along the way in the few thousand miles he put on the truck, he changed the oil and was seeing glitter and cut open the filter and yeah, things were not looking spectacular. The truck about that time or soon after seemed down on power compared to what it had been and then threw some engine code, I expect the cam/lifters were failing and so he brought the truck back to the dealer and made some deal to get out of it as he knew it would sit for months waiting on a new engine as they were so backlogged at the time. He kept the GM for some time after that using it exclusively until he sold it after buying his next vehicle to do a review on. Definitely the filter can tell a story when things are starting to go sideways, but it would be a sickening feeling to cut it open and be faced with an ugly mess like that and be running a magnet through the pleats and the oil on the dirty side of the filter and see all the fines sticking to the magnet. The dealer may have some ideas based on experience as to where that coolant smell is coming from, I would imagine if they can't find it but its smelling they would put dye in it to they could give it a run cycle and use the black light to see where it pops up, if its a hose connection, water pump, rad or even a head gasket etc.

I know the claim was that they overfill the LZ0 or unless it was the first series of 3.0 duramax an additional quart due to more oil use before the rings/cylinder mates together. My neighbors is a refresh 2022 model and who knows what changes they could have made between then and now and no two engines are exactly alike and it would probably have some bearing on how the engine was broken in and serviced as well. I'd be doing exactly like you are, a few short interval oil changes ( not sure if you cut open the filters, you might not want to know what was inside of them ! ) and shorter intervals over all for oil changes and you've more than done your part. If it piles up, that's completely on GM and its there baby to cover the cost of a new engine. By the way the neighbor said he just had that coolant diverter contraption replaced on is truck, don't recall the miles that is on his truck now but certainly within the warranty period yet and so was all covered as he said there was a time when they were not covering that under the power train warranty but now they are as I believe he would be over the bumper to bumper warranty in distance I believe and certainly past in the three year time frame.

There are a few good takeaways in that video that pertain to this thread, certainly the possibility of the oil control rings having buildup, the fuel injectors and how clean or not that they are ending up affecting the pistons rings carbon buildup, and the fact that its normal up to a point for a given engine to use some oil, and that the oil quality that is being utilized is part of that ring clogging up issue as well. I was talking with a neighbor yesterday who has a baby LZ0 duramax and he had bought it slightly used but it does consume some oil and he has switched over to 5W-30 Euro spec oil and in this case that never made a difference in consumption over the factory 0W-20 recommendation. He finds it uses a quart in about 3500 miles and as he goes a ways over that distance he adds oil to full and goes another 1000 miles or so and then changes oil and is typically at 40% or so left on the oil monitor at that point with his use case of quite a lot of highway miles and more limited in short run use. I don't know what other LZ0 engines are doing for oil consumption but that is what his is doing.

That makes me think of all the years on this farm that I was pouring oil into an old chev 350 pickup engine as long ago it had the fuel pump diaphragm fail and the pumps cast in hole was on the internal side that bolted up to the block to drive off the cam so naturally the crank case was filling with oil and my brother realized this at some point as it was his truck at the time not demoted to farm use but the damage had already been done to the cylinder walls, why the engine didn't blow up with failed bearings all these years later is a mystery. Threw on a new pump back then and kept on using the truck but it burned oil, quite a lot of oil. So many years go by of us using that truck going back and forth to the fields spring and fall and during the fall is when it got used the most. Every few days to maybe a week I would be pouring in another quart or so of oil out of a jug and certainly a lot of the time the oil level would end up a ways above the full mark as more is better than not enough !. Anyway was maybe last year I said something to my brother about the amount of oil that truck uses and was pouring in oil all the time, he had no idea it was consuming that much oil because he never actually checked it himself throughout the year as I did all the maintenance on the pickups in changing oil, doing brakes and so on and he wasn't paying any attention to the pickups oil levels. He still is the owner of that truck, only he didn't realize all this time that it used THAT MUCH oil because someone else was adding the oil. Stan, is there a chance all those years that you had someone checking and adding a little oil every time you turned your back as they were also checking oil on other pickups and equipment but never mentioned it, they just did it.

The AT3W is probably not made in any size now unless there is old stock around as not long after I bought mine they started the switch to the AT4W. The KO2 has that funky shoulder block with that wedge/slit shape groove and that area of the tread seems horrible for retaining rocks that won't come out at highway speed although it spots out a lot of rocks once off of the gravel and onto the pavement and throwing rocks when on the gravel. Mind you the AT3W certainly picks some rocks as well but didn't seem as bad at least on the gravel I drive on vs the KO2. KO3, good question as I haven't been around them to see what they seem like for rock retention or how they are carcass wise if one was doing a certain amount of gravel driving.

Depending on size it seems but comparing the ATW4 to the KO3, there isn't that much weight difference at least in the tire I was comparing but your right that the Toyo AT3 is somewhat lighter as are a few other all terrain tires as well. I haven't put enough miles on my Falken AT3W set to have much wear or a chance to have vibration etc so the jury is out yet on them from my limited experience, they seem fairly quiet although not silent.

Back when I bought the AT3W for a different truck and got some input from more than one tire dealers on their tire thoughts, one of the dealers had a KO2, Toyo AT3 and Falken AT3W lined up side by side in the showroom as they do work mostly on pickups and those are three popular tires that an independent shop can get their hands on to sell. It was the difference and was at room temperature of the three tires compounds. The KO2 and Toyo felt very similar with the squeeze test of the tread blocks but the Falken felt quite a bit firmer, it was very noticeable. Tire reviews aside as per winter traction, I wasn't that concerned about that since I was not planning on running them much during the winter anyway although some claim the AT3W was not a bad all terrain choice for winter, none will ever be as good as a dedicated winter tire with studs. As per use case, I imagine around you as well you might see guys running mud tires on rigs that are too fancy to be going off road but it looks cool in the mall parking lot !. Mud tires are not noted for their best on road traction ( never mind winter/ice conditions ) or handling or rolling resistance or being a quiet ride, or last near as long either.

Good thing you mentioned that as there is actually a brand of oil that is Crystal Lubricants and realized that as I was trying to search for information about it. I haven't searched much yet on the Oilzum but found a comment that claims that oil brand has a history that dates back to 1888 in Massachusetts. So it would seem oil brands that never made it to Canada or not western Canada in any way that one hears about them. Texaco was the big player in Canada years ago and I know my dad was a Texaco oil and probably fuel user as well since that was the major supplier but then things began to dwindle company wise for whatever reason with competition and they sold off their Canadian holdings to Petro Canada. We still have a few of those one or two gallon galvanized cans around from Texaco, they would date back a few years !.

That's a good point about the operating temperature differences of oils, be that in an engine, transmission, diff or hydraulic applications between a conventional oil and certain synthetics as Grumpy Bear as talked about, of course viscosity is also playing a roll in it as the balancing act, as too heavy a viscosity increases heat but too thin and it can't protect the sliding components. But as to engine oil usage, I can't say to what engines your company was using for pickups and tractors etc but my own experience over the years and the various farmers or truck drivers I knew who are maintaining their equipment and having to add some oil every so often was a very common theme. Take Cummins and I am going back years now to the 1970's and 80's as a diesel manufacturer, be it in the tractors own manual or the Cummins supplemental manual it would state a rough expectation of oil use volume per an operating day. Now granted that was that days engine technology and that days conventional oil being used. It does make me wonder though as to if there would have been a noticeable difference in oil consumption in the same engine with the same user scenario between a conventional main stream off the shelf oil and Amsoil I'll use as a top tier engine oil choice. Truck fleets for example that do the same run day after day, same load and same route would be ideal test beds for testing variables like that and of course wear metals testing. My ex brother inlaw years ago was an owner operator of his highway tractor ( a few different trucks over those years ) and ran a route where they pulled a heavy load, double trailers hauling wood chips and the truck would run day and night with a swing shift all week and get serviced on the weekend. That type of use case would make for very consistent testing.

Interesting timing as it was around 1985 when I started looking into engine and gear oils that would flow better in cold weather although I was looking through offerings that main stream companies like Esso was offering and at that time they were listing some very select full synthetic made by Mobil as well as the Esso offerings that were part synthetics. I chose what was more affordable and more easily sourced which was the Esso part synthetics which still had good performance in cold weather, just not quite as good as the full synthetics. That's where it all began and over the years that evolved into a part synthetic hydraulic oil and then full synthetic engine and gear oils, highway tractor transmission synthetic oil as Esso put them on the market. Cold weather was my main goal for years for using part or full synthetics, balancing cost with performance but then some equipment began to call for synthetic period in certain components. I just knew that all it would take is one turned crank or con rod bearing in an engine to pay for a lot of oil or should say the difference in cost between a proper wide operating temperature viscosity of a synthetic 0W-40 over lets say a conventional 15W-40 .

Certainly back in the 60's there would not have been salesman coming around selling synthetic oil to the masses and its a good question as to how many shifted over to synthetics as they came out in the 1970's, from what I sensed at the time there was a mystery and unsure about the product since it was all new to the general public. The talk about engines leaking at seals etc if switching over to synthetic which actually had truth due to the formulation at the time, teething issues for sure from what I gather which obviously was sorted out years ago. That and no doubt the price premium held synthetic sales down in the early days. To say the theme has flipped on its head today is an understatement with synthetic oil being used from end to end on vehicles, highway tractors and equipment. Do you recall what year your company was first introduced to Amsoil ?

I believe I recall you mentioning something about this Cristal 50 before. I can only guess that the oil retailer got talked into carrying the oil not realizing what it was all about. So was your dad using Cristal oil products at the time in the equipment, not this particular oil though of course. So then the question is, what prompted your dad or if it was your dad to switch over to Amsoil or were there other oil brands used along the way before Amsoil was settled on ?.

I believe I've stumbled across the fix for the volume of oil use that the OP wants to address, a permanent fix at that so it will never use any oil ever again. Sure, the Valvoline Restore & Protect may very well solve some or perhaps all of the issue but it will take time to run through a few batches of oil on a low oil change interval where as this other solution is cheap, quick and permanent. However like its said, sometimes its better to work a little for the reward .... I posted it elsewhere on this forum in the appropriate place where with a little effort it can be found.