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Grumpy Bear

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  1. Grumpy Bear
    5.2. Wear and wear-in As more-and-more load is carried by metallic surface asperities at slowing speeds in the mixed lubrication zone, a proportionate increase is to be expected in wear rate. If design constraints permit, this deleterious effect can be reduced by applying higher lubricant viscosity, reducing contact unit load, or increasing rotation speed to lower the lift-off point. Use of antiwear and extreme-pressure lubricants may also reduce wear by forming protective surface layers on bearings. Despite the general difficulty and uncertainty in predicting wear rates of asperity contacts, Maru and Tanaka [27] have demonstrated some relation of wear coefficients with friction coefficients, particularly in the beginning stages of the mixed-film regime. Initial wear-in at mild operating conditions can provide a limited smoothing of the finish of both bearing and shaft surfaces. As shown in Fig. 5, this useful action moves the lift-off speed and the mixed lubrication region in the Stribeck curve to the left to reduce, or even possibly eliminate, the support needed from Michael M. Khonsari & E. Richard Booser 276 contact of solid asperities [24]. Grease lubrication and some adhering oil-additive films produce a similar effect in lowering the lift-off speed. *************************************** Lee ya loose me and any thinking man when you try to tell us this isn't true anymore. Power density is up. Speeds are down and both viscosity and AW are being sent lower. Universal law doesn't change. Attitudes about it do. OEM and guys like you are not just willing to increase wear you are demanding we accept it and pay for it while the design world tried to defy LAW.
  2. Grumpy Bear
    Did I ever tell you I was born legally blind? 20/320 right 20/280 left, far sighted with a bi-orbital stigmatism. Everyone, including my parents just though I was a klutz. Knocked all my teeth out falling up stairs. Tripped over something in the yard falling into a woodpile and catching a axe in the forehead. All by age four. First week in kindergarten we had eye exams. I couldn't see the nurse much less the chart she had her finger on. My world was shadows and movement. When I got my first set of glasses, coke bottles, I fell in love with science. My world was a constant source of amazement to me. I poked everything with a stick. Optics! What a wonderful science. When in my thirties Lasik Surgery became a thing. As it was new few were doing it and my sight was precious. Although I was being told optics for correction was soon a thing of the past I was hesitant. While I was gathering myself to explore it deeper a neighbor of ours who was born as I was, only worse, decided to have the surgery. Back then they did it one eye at a time. Within a year she was blind in that eyes and has no hope of recovering her sight. It was new. It turned out to be wonderful in time. Just not in that time. I still rely on glasses as you well know. You also know that the science behind optics hasn't changed since it's inception. Oh the materials have improved and the techniques more profitable and more precise and this has allowed large scaling to a practical benefit for everyone. I've certainly benefited from it. My glasses are a fraction of the weight. My wait for a new prescription a fraction of the wait. But my $20 glasses from 1957 now cost nearly $1,000 now and her is the kicker. My eyesight after correction hasn't changed in nearly 70 years. All that progress and the practical result is the same as it was 70 years ago. Why? Because the foundation was laid in the unchangeableness of God given universal law. Optical Physics. On that I don't give up and I will never give in. Someday, perhaps when my cornea clouds I'll have Lasik after cataract surgery. Few go blind doing it anymore. But until that day arrives I will continue to rely on what has been PROVEN TO ME BY USE to provide reliable 20/20 vision. Even though it is a well worn technology. You, Lake, the API and SAE can trot out whatever "New and Improved" versions of current philosophy you like on the oil topic but whatever follows will not and can not improve on an already perfect result. I can't be convinced, humiliate, bullied, ganged up on nor denied by supply to deny the unchangeable. You guys know I've been around since API SB, right? I changed oils and grades as supply changed or as something improved on an imperfect result. I don't run advertising in my motor. I don't run regulations in my motor. I run what has given, continues to give a perfect result. I will quit when the supply dries up or it is degraded to a point it not longer does what it does. So...Lee....what is left to talk about?
  3. Grumpy Bear
    Stepmother called last night. Uncle Garry passed. Dad is now literally last man standing of his generation in our family. He's 96. Garry was 82 ish. Dad isn't taking this well. I haven't a single Aunt or Uncle left. Dad is the third of six. No one left to tell on him. His sisters liked to do that. Pretty much how I ever knew anything about my parents before I was old enough to form a lasting memory. I miss them all.
  4. Grumpy Bear
    Haven't been out in days but las time I saw, $2.62. Stubbornly so.
  5. Grumpy Bear
    We now have more snow this year to date than all of last year. We've only hit zero a few days but it seems harsher this year. MRS. bought me a puffer coat. Toasty She now has one as well. No idea they could be that warm.
  6. Grumpy Bear
    The O line is a hot mess and yea. toast for the year.
  7. Grumpy Bear
    What relationship is there between a daily driver and a dyno motor doing full power pulls every five minutes for two hours? Boat motor graph showing the difference between car and dyno as a dyno loads just as hard as a boat. Seems a fair comparison. 50 hour oil changes for marine motors if I remember correctly. Explain how Red Line go so corrosive in 2 hours as to generate that much acidic wear without any oxidation? Where are the acid and base values to support that claim? If it isn't acidic then it's viscosity or dirt. There are only so many rabbits in that hat. Why in a lifetime of using Ester based products have I NEVER pulled a corrosive bearing from a motor nor had a single bearing failure? Trolling for 'clicks' isn't science. Neither is avoiding repeatability testing. No A-B-A? Not required?
  8. Grumpy Bear
    I'd also like to know what the reasoning is for the elevated temperature of the break in oil. Hint, it isn't viscosity. How about the Pennzoil elevated temperature? And if Ester is evil and corrosive why AMSOIL's high ester content isn't adding corrosive wear. It is as high as my last batches of Red Line Euro. HPL also was higher wear and the lowest ester content of the three. Why did Red Line produce the lowest bulk oil temperature in Pepper? Lower that QS and lower than Mobil 1? Why did 5W40 Red Line not raise the bulk oil temperature? (last not shown) Why are the copper and iron results in @OnTheReel's motor lower with Red Line than on Pennzoil? Why oh why indeed. Remember, I bring receipts.
  9. Grumpy Bear
    Nope they don't. C'mon man your are better than this. You are saying these hard glass films adhering to the metallic substrates can be washed off by an oil change like blowing feathers of a table with a leaf blower. They wouldn't be very effective in anti wear if that were remotely possible. These are HARD and TENATIOUS films that have to be WORN away like wearing hard chrome off a 4340 shaft. Ain't that easy and no, the films are not as hard, but the idea is the same. You can't rip it off like a Band-Aid or wash it off like chalk. What will flush out is that reserve amount that has not been converted to film. That sill in solution/suspension. The whole point of over saturation of ZDP is to overwhelm any polarity in the system challenging the ZDP for space and building a layer thick enough to CONTROL the rate of asperity WEAR thus preventing cold weld damage. It why mineral oils are preferred to Esters or AN's in Break In oils. Not as polar. That motor was rebuild and broke in before testing. Whatever oil was up first was going to get hammered. JUNK SIENCE. I provided a scholarly paper, that I will not look up again, showing the relationship between ZDP film thickness and friction. Several years ago I provide a link to a paper showing the lubricity enhancement of POE by percentage in PAO's that exceed any other base oils ability. I have never seen such a hate for a product based on innuendo and half baked observations. I found the reason Ravens last sample was such a dud. It was ridiculously simple. I also know why all her previous samples with such and evil oil as Red Line HP far exceed the result of the test subject it was gauged against that used Mobil 1 over the same length of time/miles. Also ridiculously simple. And light years better than 0W20 Idemitsu.
  10. Grumpy Bear
    Why so hot? Did we miss the use of a specific break in oil? HUGE ZDP levels. Enough to cause allot of friction and it doesn't go away quickly. It isn't because Red Line has SL levels of ZDP (1100-1250 ppm) but because the break in oil has TWICE that much and takes longer than one may think to wear off. Looks like it lingered for the first two samples and two flushing sequences, tapering off in only a few hours running. 2 hours test and 20/30 minute flushes. This motor may indeed have 7,000 dyno pulls on it but it also has seen allot of rebuilds and gets this break-in with each new cam and or ring package.
  11. Grumpy Bear
    OntheStribeckcurve.pdf Recent Developments in Wear Prevention, Friction and Lubrication, 2010: 263-278 ISBN: 978-81-308-0377-7 Editor: George K. Nikas 7. On the Stribeck curve Michael M. Khonsari and E. Richard Booser Dow Chemical Endowed Chair in Rotating Machinery, Louisiana State University, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Baton Rouge, LA 70803, USA; Engineering Consultant, Vero Beach, FL 32966, USA This paper is hands down he best work I've yet to read. It's a long read, sixteen pages, and there is a ton of difficult math imbedded but as daunting as that seems, it isn't. The read is easy and quite understandable. This is what "Useful, Reliable, Accurate Information" easy to understand looks like. I am grateful to the authors to learn I have an very accurate understanding. I hope the most interested among us will enjoy this read as much as I did.
  12. Grumpy Bear
    So Lake is just another dumb Internet dude but his video is gospel? Except the parts you disagree with? How do you keep it straight? (Rhetorical question) 2 cSt of viscosity did not generate 100 F in oil temperature. If it would, then Driven LS would also be 100 F higher but it was the coolest of the bunch. Now your going to switch arguments to the add package but a comparison will show that a lame duck as well. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/red-line-euro-5w30-voa-01-27-2022.367218/ there is a correlation between oxidation and POE content. You will say the ROC is bogus as well or the lab they use is incompetent. Or the sample is to old or...or...or Lake is incompetent even though he shares your certifications, licenses and business platform. Nope, no answers. Just allot of double talk. Round and round the Mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel..... I haven't found an expert I agree with on every detail either. Lee is not unique there. But I'm not embarrassed to admit I have huge holes in my understanding of just about every topic of knowledge either. I'm also not stupid enough to reject what my labs, my eyes and my instruments and the education I use to interpret them are telling me in real time either. **************************************** I seem to NEVER get all the information required and NEVER get it soon enough to be useful. But I ALWAYS get it time to do it over. I NEVER run out of advice to stop believing my eyes; my labs and my experience and education. All I've ever really gotten from really smart people is their contempt. Contempt isn't useful in selecting knowledge, products and services or friends and yet they seem surprised in my response. How smart is that?
  13. Grumpy Bear
    It varies a bit by grade but the test I run agree with Lake. Oxidation still showing lots of POE. 5W30 at 100 and my most recent 5W40 over 60. The 0W40 is near 120 as is the 0W20 still. If your going to say it isn't an indicator then ask Lake why he can estimate content by oxidation? Yes it has changed over the years. Most recent MSDS <14.9% light distillate. The carrier oil for the add package. Remainder is still 30% or more POE and balance PAO. As of Feb this year. Pay attention to the most recent additive packages. Lower TBN's, More Mg and less Ca. Less Moly. More Boron. Lower loads of Phos and Zinc as limited by ACEA A3/B4. The oil is changing, your brain is stuck. Every few months they add a new LSPI friendly grade to the HP line. You want a DEXOS oil with a Red Line label. Use the Black bottle Professional series. Add the double talk he did. Tossing out the first few dyno power pulls after showing more area UNDER THE CURVE with the Red Line until purged from the motor and multiple power passes. He can't have it both ways. Nothing in my real world experience is agreeing with this testing. Temperatures I have show MULTIPLE times to be substantially lower. Never used an oil that runs cleaner. Shown that over the life of my projects. Have also shown failure, something the rest don't like to show, using cheap but licensed oils. Something I agree with from the Engineering Explained guy is, "You can find a study to support every position". In no world, under those base conditions is RL running 100F over temperature for the reason of additive overloading. Something is amiss and you friend are starting to disappoint me by not questioning that yourself. Increased wear was the result of high temp causing low location viscosity and not additive failures. it's why GM tells Camaro owners to VIS UP on track day. That test is ridiculous. But you want to believe it, fine by me.
  14. Grumpy Bear
    279,000 Mile Services 12/8/2025 2015 Terrain 2.4 1K mile OCI nominal 905 actual 5 Quarts Mobil 1 Euro 5W40 No filter (3) Timing cover seal now leaking enough to wet the frame but not the ground. 0W40 improved fuel economy. Shorter than normal OCI as weather is play a part not in what Dizzy needs but in what I can do. Below freezing and now the next two days they are projecting rain then back to near zero until the Bears with a Superbowl.
  15. Grumpy Bear
    Okay Chuck I gave that short video a full hour making some notes as I went. First three oils run in order also are first three in order of decline in oil temperature and Fe/Al. Yes that much difference in oil temp will have a profound effect on viscosity and and the wear metals followed predictably. After the first three it gets random. Cam pulled showed pitting and yet they claimed SP oils will protect the flat tappet system. How so? He made a big deal out of switching base oil types and the flush method to separate the POE/POA, POA/Ester's from the others but slid the GTL in the middle of the Ester group and scattered the remaining ester bearing oil liberally about the remaining test oils. Want to see the disconnect closer? Compare wear metals to AW levels, zero. Compare oil temps to base oil types. That is explain how a Group III with a 15% deficit in thermal conductivity and thermal capacitance ran cooler by a wide margin to the primary POA formulations. So physics is junk? Lee says butthurt because I don't like the result. Second time I'll say I don't like the test because it is flawed silly. I say garbage in....garbage out. Junk, just like I said. Lee, no need to belittle the messenger when you don't get the response you wish for.
  16. Grumpy Bear
    Ah now you're going to make me watch the entire video? Hang on....
  17. Grumpy Bear
    They are 'card counting'. Stacking the deck. Playing odds. Ask yourself, "What is the difference between the drivers that would buy the differences in those vehicles"?
  18. Grumpy Bear
    Do I say that? Thicker is better? Pretty sure what I say is "Use Enough". And I point out OFTEN enough isn't what the manufacture is recommending. I've shared repeatedly that my older Honda's all used 5W20 with great results. I preach testing to find that number as well as the OCI length best suited and I use your services to explore those limits. Now, if that statement quoted is more generic then yes, there are plenty with that belief. I just don't want to be rolled up in the fold.
  19. Grumpy Bear
    True every statement.
  20. Grumpy Bear
    Ever hear me say "There is no perfect oil"? Like a thousand times. I'm not pushing back on results but on method.
  21. Grumpy Bear
    I watched about 5 minutes of the video. Garbage in, garbage out. Whatever oil was first in that motor was going to show the highest wear rate. Whatever order came after would fall in whatever order they were run. Lake got to cute on this one. This test would not pass a peer review and as done, not repeatable. He could have run the same oil seven times and got near the same results. IMO. YMMV. Nailed it. ^^^^^^
  22. Grumpy Bear
    Etymology respect(v.) 1540s, "to regard, notice with especial attention," from French respecter "look back; respect; delay" (16c.), from Latin respectere, frequentative of respicere "look back at, regard, consider," from re- "back" (see re-) + specere "look at" (from PIE root *spek- "to observe"). The meaning "treat with deferential esteem, regard with some degree of reverence" is from 1550s. The sense of "refrain from injuring or interfering with" is from 1620s. The meaning "have reference to, relate to" is from 1560s. Related: Respected; respecting. To respect the person was "show undue bias toward (or against) based on regard for the outward circumstances of a person;" hence respecter of persons, usually with negative, from Acts 10:34, in the 1611 translation. ****************************************** What used to be a sign of disrespect is now a hobby for many people. Interfere for the sake of response. I hear on the news last night that Oxford Dictionary has added the phrase "Rage Bait" to the vocabulary. Rage doesn't seem to need any encouragement that it should require baiting. Seems indoctrinated into humanity. Violence in deed and word isn't what is happening in some third world country or some isolated neighborhood across town. It's happening (taught) on the TV screen. In children's games. Social media. Fiction works. Practiced in family life and on the streets and schools and promoted by educators of all stripes. Half the world doesn't even realize they are willing participants. Nor do they care. It is the air we breath. (Ephesians 2:2)
  23. Grumpy Bear
    Tzu missed badly in believing man is only good if another man judges him so based on any metric a man can judge by. What can another man give you? What is it he possess that would be of so much value you would give him such worship? Need his approval so badly as to subjugate yourself to his will. Can he add eternity to your life? Can he clean your conscience? Can he make you whole? What can he teach you that would allow you to do these things for yourself? Does a man put breath in you? If he takes it from you, can he give it back? Can he create something from nothing? Job.....
  24. Grumpy Bear
    Weird Experience I've been playing with my Mirage; cooling and fuel management systems. Thought I was cutting some new ground and while searching for something other ran across a fellows work that was using the EXACT same materials from the EXACT same source for the EACT same reasons and came to the EXACT same conclusions. Oh, and several years before me. There is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes 1:9, 10 This is the second time during my life I've had this experience. Seventh grade was the first. The way I was taught math was modular in that learning a series of steps base on "WHY" allows one to determine the next logical step without instruction. I was but eleven at the time (started school early) and within a few weeks was moved to a Freshman math class skipping two years. We didn't have AP classes then. But my seventh grade teacher noticed I was able to see patterns in numbers and in learn unassisted, methods that were unusual for a boy eleven. I knew Algebra before I was taught Algebra. It was intuitive for me. While is was unusual for the age it was not unusual in being. No one was offended and that was unusual. People don't get upset when you come to a conclusion previously held. But they get all sideways when you come to one no one has before. It is the exact same experience but one is called Genius and the other a Fluke. From WIKI: Genius [Quote] Genius is a characteristic of original and exceptional insight in the performance of some art or endeavor that surpasses expectations, sets new standards for the future, establishes better methods of operation, or remains outside the capabilities of competitors. Genius is associated with intellectual ability and creative productivity. [Close quote] Seems you don't just have to have the ability to for "Exceptional Insight' you also have to be first! What Genius came to that self serving conclusion? Anyone see iGEM on 60 minutes tonight? Highschool students doing Post Grad work on CRISPR. A class in Atlanta created a test for LYME disease and a CURE for it that the EXPERTS say will only be valid if "further testing agrees". A decided lack of Genius.
  25. Grumpy Bear
    We got about a foot. Wife and I traded all day going out to shovel and try the new TORO power shovel. But the worst of it came today when the county plow did us in twice in under 20 minutes. Jerk waves like he did me a favor. BTW, the TORO is heavy and awkward to use. BUT it does move snow a long distance from contact.

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