Grumpy Bear

It varies a bit by grade but the test I run agree with Lake. Oxidation still showing lots of POE. 5W30 at 100 and my most recent 5W40 over 60. The 0W40 is near 120 as is the 0W20 still. If your going to say it isn't an indicator then ask Lake why he can estimate content by oxidation? Yes it has changed over the years. Most recent MSDS <14.9% light distillate. The carrier oil for the add package. Remainder is still 30% or more POE and balance PAO. As of Feb this year. Pay attention to the most recent additive packages. Lower TBN's, More Mg and less Ca. Less Moly. More Boron. Lower loads of Phos and Zinc as limited by ACEA A3/B4. The oil is changing, your brain is stuck. Every few months they add a new LSPI friendly grade to the HP line. You want a DEXOS oil with a Red Line label. Use the Black bottle Professional series. Add the double talk he did. Tossing out the first few dyno power pulls after showing more area UNDER THE CURVE with the Red Line until purged from the motor and multiple power passes. He can't have it both ways. Nothing in my real world experience is agreeing with this testing. Temperatures I have show MULTIPLE times to be substantially lower. Never used an oil that runs cleaner. Shown that over the life of my projects. Have also shown failure, something the rest don't like to show, using cheap but licensed oils. Something I agree with from the Engineering Explained guy is, "You can find a study to support every position". In no world, under those base conditions is RL running 100F over temperature for the reason of additive overloading. Something is amiss and you friend are starting to disappoint me by not questioning that yourself. Increased wear was the result of high temp causing low location viscosity and not additive failures. it's why GM tells Camaro owners to VIS UP on track day. That test is ridiculous. But you want to believe it, fine by me.

279,000 Mile Services 12/8/2025 2015 Terrain 2.4 1K mile OCI nominal 905 actual 5 Quarts Mobil 1 Euro 5W40 No filter (3) Timing cover seal now leaking enough to wet the frame but not the ground. 0W40 improved fuel economy. Shorter than normal OCI as weather is play a part not in what Dizzy needs but in what I can do. Below freezing and now the next two days they are projecting rain then back to near zero until the Bears with a Superbowl.

Okay Chuck I gave that short video a full hour making some notes as I went. First three oils run in order also are first three in order of decline in oil temperature and Fe/Al. Yes that much difference in oil temp will have a profound effect on viscosity and and the wear metals followed predictably. After the first three it gets random. Cam pulled showed pitting and yet they claimed SP oils will protect the flat tappet system. How so? He made a big deal out of switching base oil types and the flush method to separate the POE/POA, POA/Ester's from the others but slid the GTL in the middle of the Ester group and scattered the remaining ester bearing oil liberally about the remaining test oils. Want to see the disconnect closer? Compare wear metals to AW levels, zero. Compare oil temps to base oil types. That is explain how a Group III with a 15% deficit in thermal conductivity and thermal capacitance ran cooler by a wide margin to the primary POA formulations. So physics is junk? Lee says butthurt because I don't like the result. Second time I'll say I don't like the test because it is flawed silly. I say garbage in....garbage out. Junk, just like I said. Lee, no need to belittle the messenger when you don't get the response you wish for.

Ah now you're going to make me watch the entire video? Hang on....

They are 'card counting'. Stacking the deck. Playing odds. Ask yourself, "What is the difference between the drivers that would buy the differences in those vehicles"?

Do I say that? Thicker is better? Pretty sure what I say is "Use Enough". And I point out OFTEN enough isn't what the manufacture is recommending. I've shared repeatedly that my older Honda's all used 5W20 with great results. I preach testing to find that number as well as the OCI length best suited and I use your services to explore those limits. Now, if that statement quoted is more generic then yes, there are plenty with that belief. I just don't want to be rolled up in the fold.

True every statement.

Ever hear me say "There is no perfect oil"? Like a thousand times. I'm not pushing back on results but on method.

I watched about 5 minutes of the video. Garbage in, garbage out. Whatever oil was first in that motor was going to show the highest wear rate. Whatever order came after would fall in whatever order they were run. Lake got to cute on this one. This test would not pass a peer review and as done, not repeatable. He could have run the same oil seven times and got near the same results. IMO. YMMV. Nailed it. ^^^^^^

Etymology respect(v.) 1540s, "to regard, notice with especial attention," from French respecter "look back; respect; delay" (16c.), from Latin respectere, frequentative of respicere "look back at, regard, consider," from re- "back" (see re-) + specere "look at" (from PIE root *spek- "to observe"). The meaning "treat with deferential esteem, regard with some degree of reverence" is from 1550s. The sense of "refrain from injuring or interfering with" is from 1620s. The meaning "have reference to, relate to" is from 1560s. Related: Respected; respecting. To respect the person was "show undue bias toward (or against) based on regard for the outward circumstances of a person;" hence respecter of persons, usually with negative, from Acts 10:34, in the 1611 translation. ****************************************** What used to be a sign of disrespect is now a hobby for many people. Interfere for the sake of response. I hear on the news last night that Oxford Dictionary has added the phrase "Rage Bait" to the vocabulary. Rage doesn't seem to need any encouragement that it should require baiting. Seems indoctrinated into humanity. Violence in deed and word isn't what is happening in some third world country or some isolated neighborhood across town. It's happening (taught) on the TV screen. In children's games. Social media. Fiction works. Practiced in family life and on the streets and schools and promoted by educators of all stripes. Half the world doesn't even realize they are willing participants. Nor do they care. It is the air we breath. (Ephesians 2:2)

Tzu missed badly in believing man is only good if another man judges him so based on any metric a man can judge by. What can another man give you? What is it he possess that would be of so much value you would give him such worship? Need his approval so badly as to subjugate yourself to his will. Can he add eternity to your life? Can he clean your conscience? Can he make you whole? What can he teach you that would allow you to do these things for yourself? Does a man put breath in you? If he takes it from you, can he give it back? Can he create something from nothing? Job.....

Weird Experience I've been playing with my Mirage; cooling and fuel management systems. Thought I was cutting some new ground and while searching for something other ran across a fellows work that was using the EXACT same materials from the EXACT same source for the EACT same reasons and came to the EXACT same conclusions. Oh, and several years before me. There is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes 1:9, 10 This is the second time during my life I've had this experience. Seventh grade was the first. The way I was taught math was modular in that learning a series of steps base on "WHY" allows one to determine the next logical step without instruction. I was but eleven at the time (started school early) and within a few weeks was moved to a Freshman math class skipping two years. We didn't have AP classes then. But my seventh grade teacher noticed I was able to see patterns in numbers and in learn unassisted, methods that were unusual for a boy eleven. I knew Algebra before I was taught Algebra. It was intuitive for me. While is was unusual for the age it was not unusual in being. No one was offended and that was unusual. People don't get upset when you come to a conclusion previously held. But they get all sideways when you come to one no one has before. It is the exact same experience but one is called Genius and the other a Fluke. From WIKI: Genius [Quote] Genius is a characteristic of original and exceptional insight in the performance of some art or endeavor that surpasses expectations, sets new standards for the future, establishes better methods of operation, or remains outside the capabilities of competitors. Genius is associated with intellectual ability and creative productivity. [Close quote] Seems you don't just have to have the ability to for "Exceptional Insight' you also have to be first! What Genius came to that self serving conclusion? Anyone see iGEM on 60 minutes tonight? Highschool students doing Post Grad work on CRISPR. A class in Atlanta created a test for LYME disease and a CURE for it that the EXPERTS say will only be valid if "further testing agrees". A decided lack of Genius.

We got about a foot. Wife and I traded all day going out to shovel and try the new TORO power shovel. But the worst of it came today when the county plow did us in twice in under 20 minutes. Jerk waves like he did me a favor. BTW, the TORO is heavy and awkward to use. BUT it does move snow a long distance from contact.

@customboss raises an interesting idea centered around 'uncertainty'. In Deterministic Models there is a great deal of effort expended to assure that only one leaver of variability at at time is pulled so that direct cause and effect can be studied. The Monte Carlo Model, based on randomness, disconnects the two, input from output, to study the effect alone. It has usefulness such as if you haven't a idea what 'possible outcomes' could be. A more analogous model of end user conditions indeed. Users rarely do as the ought or are instructed to do. Random models it seems would have usefulness in making a thing idiot proof. The flaw of that model is in knowing what caused what. It's strength seems to be in finding multiple random outcomes for singular but but unconstrained inputs. It would seem that both used together in stages would be very effective. Deterministic Models have a feature called the "Process Capability Index" that hints at Monte Carlo but provides only a ones and zeros output. Very interesting.

That would be a nice work experience. Sadly uncommon. Like chess there are many variations, agreed. Greed has but one goal. Winning and keeping all the marbles. Deterministic vs Monte Carlo. There are uses for both models. I would have liked to explore the research generated, at least the inputs.

Actuaries Drive Oil & Maintenance Interval Requirements. Not Engineers https://www.soa.org/future-actuaries/precandidate/what/ https://www.casact.org/sites/default/files/old/forum_07spforum_07sp35.pdf https://www.actomate.ai/post/how-actuaries-drive-success-in-the-automotive-industry Warranty Evolution (150K in the title is highly misleading if you read the article) https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/the-evolution-of-the-car-warranty/2759 Engineers provide DATA the Actuary uses. Research provides DATA the actuary uses. Markets and Regulation drive the boundaries this is all hemmed in by. The weakest part of this chain is the Market and it is Marketing's job to shape those markets. Finish the Sentence! When a manufacture tells you "You don't need more than 2.6 HTHS......" What he means is, "You don't need more than 2.6 HTHS to get past warranty and absolve us of liability". ****************************************** Public Notice No one pays me to say anything. I PAY FOR THE DATA. I pay for the oil, the testing, Research papers, the test mules, outsourced services, even advice. Anyone says other is a liar and a slanderer. I do benefit by applying knowledge to wisdom I enhance (organize) my knowledge by writing. How awful of me!

I know you're asking dyier2 but it would be interesting to know this basic habit from as many as would like to contribute. How long matters, right? 5K the marker it takes me roughly 60 days averaging 84 miles per day. 37,710 miles in 448 days. Much different service from someone that does 5 miles twice a day back and forth to work or school. He takes 500 days and never heats their oil fully. How about you. How long does it take you?

Saw this on the Forum's page under post and LMAO. See the bold red in the quote? That should read, "No one is publicly eating chocolate ice cream". Why? People have stopped engaging PUBLICLY. Privately? I'm more than busy enough answering request and questions on this very topic. PM's and Emails from quite a few members here. More from other sites. They stopped because of a few selfish members . Didn't stop eating chocolate ice cream, just stopped doing it in public. I continue publicly regardless. Let them know someone will engage without judgment. A BS free zone. It's why kids ask their friends and not their parents. Why a guy talks to his bartender and not his wife. The wife talks to her beautician and not her husband. No one is afraid of you and your posse. They just don't want to engage any of you. Why would they? Don't mistake this for engagement or getting out of the Ignore box. Don't expect an exchange or further reply.

This literally depends on your goal. Pretty sure I said this before. If your method is giving you the results you like then keep doing what you're doing. I also invited everyone that was already happy to discontinue reading and replying. Please...accept my warm invitation. So you don't like chocolate ice cream and now you want the world to stop making chocolate ice cream. Everyone should quit talking about chocolate ice cream. Punish or humiliate those that do like chocolate ice cream and deny others who would like to try chocolate ice cream. I get it. You don't like chocolate ice cream. So quit coming to the chocolate ice cream factory.

Enough Viscosity I'll get to 'how much is enough' question when I have a bit more time. For now a foundation of the viscosity wear relationship as accepted by the study of the physics, wear model development and private research of commercial interests. This isn't a topic for debate. It is established fact. It is not presented for debate but placed in evidence. Another wear model to show the effect of viscosity on absolute wear. This one pitting Group IV/V bended 0W16, 0W20 and 0W30 with a mineral 0W20 in reference. And once again confirming the relationship that wear and viscosity are inversely related. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40544-023-0854-3 Add to the other multiple published SAE studies.

Prime example of the difference in 'expectations' various people have for the same situation. He's not just accepting a preventable situation as normal, he's giddy with his normal and willing to do battle to prevent anyone from upsetting that warm fuzzy place he lives in... Bet he's even more forceful if he'd see someone sharing the view it isn't normal with others on some truck forum. Glad we don't have any of those type around here, eh? I'm guessing he is one of those fellows that lives by the adage, "I'll believe it when I see it". Wonder how that works for those born blind? Do their parents not exist?

Agree!

You like stories, right? When I was filling up Pepper last the fellow at the pump next to me and at least my age was filling up a fairly new T1**. I asked him how he like it. He replied it was his wife's truck and he was just doing her a favor. He's a Dodge guy. Then with thumbs under suspenders he continues, "It has a quarter million miles on it and runs great!" then adds, "it's a rusted bucket of junk now but hey, Midwest winters and all" So I inquire, "Does it use oil"? He looked puzzled and says," It has a quarter million miles on it mister. Of course it uses oil. They all do. Started using before the first hundred thousand". "This one is just short of 200K and uses none." I offer He takes a long look...."LIAR"

Interesting take. If I read the right you saying that to 'cheat' someone the word cheat isn't defined by morality or even by Oxford, Cambridge or Webster but but LAW. What the word means by Social Contract (Webster) or Morality (God) is irrelevant if LAW defines the word as circumstances agreed to by lobbies and lawmakers to mean something 'other' that what everyone who speaks the language knows it to mean. In that case I concede. No rational person can argue a single fact if the meanings of words are not first UNIFORMALLY agreed. I can punch a guy in the eye but if the LAW says punching is something one does on one foot and only if calico and I am neither then I have no guilt....according to LAW. Good to know... No to the point. 'Feeling Cheated' may not win me a court case but it will keep that person from selling to me twice. Only a fool lets the same thief steal from them twice. You have a nice day there sir..

Would I miss the mark if I said most people that read my drivel believe I'm in favor of selecting the oil with the highest possible HTHS viscosity and the highest SAPS possible? Would that be accurate? Oh, I think so. But is it? Not hardly. What I write is: "Use an oil with ENOUGH HTHS and SAPS" Once you get past the idea I'm not calling for everyone to use an SAE 70 Break-In oil the question then becomes, "What is enough"? Well,...Is it true that I believe 2K miles is the maximum any oil should be in service? Or did I say: "OCI is determined by testing if maximum OCI length is the goal". Okay, so what is enough and for how long? Is it rude to answer a question with a question? What are YOUR expectations and goals? Kido's, the arguments start when it is explained what is ENOUGH and for HOW LONG based on the MAXIUMUMS found in research anyone can obtain and your expectations and experiences fall well below that bar......Let me take the cat out of catty. Your right! Your expectations do not rise to a level anything I say will benefit you. You met your goal...being right. Be happy.