Grumpy Bear

Viscosity, Lubricity, Solvency, Thermal Conductivity/Capacity. This short list are made on the base oil. A few can be mimicked with additives. Issues of heat rejection cured by the use of PAO's cannot be mimicked by any Group III/III+. Solvency can only be solved with a co-base with superior aniline point. Esters are primary, Polyol Esters exemplary, some AN's workable and these without giving away something important. Additions of Group I or Group II fluids assist solvency but give away oxidation resistance. Stuff enough ZDDP and acid neutralizers in it and you can mimic solvency...for a while. The government is pushing lower viscosity damn the wear. Removing ZDDP and Calcium damn the wear and even giants in the industry are bending to that will....Even Mobil. Mobil is using the lightest Group III fluids it can with an VII polymer that has significant temporary shear losses. It hasn't any real 'natural dispersity' (solvency) and runs the minimum ZDDP/ZDTP and acid neutral packages. The get some features back with Borated Esters, moly, titanium and so on but they are sacrificial and heat sensitive. In other words the things that make for a great oil are deemed either to expensive or unnecessary 'upgrades'. Mobil, a Walmart shelf oil likes a profit. A big fat profit driven by big fat margins. That said...its sill workable if you can pinpoint a safe OCI length in the service you plan to give it. 3K sounds like a starting point. A generous one but a starting point nonetheless. Trust, but verify. Labs and reasonable condemnation limits. They will try to talk you into giving up on the oil only if the TBN hits 1. Try 50-60% of new. Not the publish spec but the VOA you will run as your baseline. The published number is a different test, with a different acid.

https://www.slashgear.com/1307998/best-motor-oil-brands-ranked/ Red Line taps in a 15 of this list of 18 oil. One rug lower than Supertech and one rug higher than....wait for it....AMSOIL! The winning oil in the April 2025 posting was the media Queen Mobil 1. Okay....got al that out of your system Now go inside this article and read the "WHY" Red Line HP is ranked so low. Oh go ahead, read the reason for AMSOIL doing worse. You know ya what to. [Quote) Since 1979, Red Line has produced some of the best motor oils, automotive fluids, and lubricants that the racing industry has to offer. While these products are priced appropriately, it's hard to recommend Red Line products for everyday use. While they are high quality motor oils, made from some of the most heat resistant bases available, they are simply an unnecessary upgrade for daily driving. So, while Red Line Synthetic Oil is great for racing applications, it's tough to rank it too highly on our list because of its specialized nature. [Close quote] I'm going to flat say these two guys have totally whiffed the purpose of this base oil package. I'm not posting this to promote an oil brand but to warn of a modern day danger of letting AI and OS algorithm do your thinking for you. This is about the most blatant example I could find of someone with very nice income not earning his money. Worse, this algorithm will now push two very good lubricants to the bottom that 6.5 million hit search list Joe Average relies on to make some fairly important discissions. This is true of more than motor oil. That remark about AMSOIL not having enough products? Really?

Did it make a difference in shift quality? What I dropped on the first dump and fill on the right. What I get every time afterward on the left. I keep it cool and I keep it changed. 190,000 miles trouble free. 6L80E. Over serviced? Maybe. But I haven't spent more on fluid than a rebuild cost.

Moved from Some Assembly Required. More on point here. The earth revolves around the sun. It's a basic truth that is independent of opinion. Independent of heart felt belief. It's how we know it is the truth. It doesn't change based on education, whim, view point, alternate facts. It just is. So THE prerequisite for finding the truth is believing it, truth, exists. That's goal #1. If you can't admit that then the rest of any argument for it is a waste of time and breath. If you can concede that first statement then what follows is a step two. Take your search for the truth SERIOUSLY. If you are serious then you should be unafraid to make the third step. Make an UNBIASED examination of the FACTS and use you POWER OF REASON. The fourth step is the hardest for those with a economic or emotional investment in a falsehood. Reject that falsehood your serious, unbiased review of FACTS subject to your powers of reason reveals to you. Recent events in history have educated me to the idea that people will believe anything and lie from the heart to get other to believe whatever it is they are pedaling. I have ZERO interest in personal beliefs or in people who promote a lie for selfish reasonings. I don't care how loud one proclaims gravity is an illusion. I'm not stepping off a cliff. Truth matters. It exist and I am an avid student. It keeps me from doing DUMB things.

Recently had an exchange with a fellow using Valvoline R&P on a relatively high mile motor. One that had started to use a wee bit of oil. A manageable amount by most measure but measurable nonetheless. After a few oil changes of R&P he noted that the consumption was now half or less the original value so on the next change he went back to a shelf synthetic and his usual 7.5K OCI's. So I asked the thoughtful question. If this product did as you say, indicating his routine regime was failing him and saying so, why go back to it? Take the hint and shorten the OCI or/and continue to use the R&P. The reply stunned me. "My considered history says high mile motors use oil and doing something about it now would be fruitless" (Paraphrased) I made note that this product CLEANS fouled rings and FREES stuck ones thus the lower consumption and that he was lucky it worked as if the bore or ring faces were actually physically damaged it would not have. Asked if he thought this product added worn metal back to a worn cylinder and bore OR restored seal by cleaning and freeing the rings. A reasonable question given the reply. Crickets. Then the usual insults for being so bold as to inquire about the logic. I'm learning that results will not influence those set in a thought pattern that is counter indicated and working against their own best interest. Seems it is more important to be 'right' that to improve their program. Duct Tape will not fix stupid but it will allow you to wrap it up and mail it to Alaska.

You have my agreement on that point.

My Google blah blah blah translator must be broke. I'll take you at your word. Enjoy the day and rest that shoulder.

Not sure I believe in 'fate'. It removes free will and makes choice illusional, delusional and without effect. But yes, "Time and unforeseen occurrence befall us all". True is that. I also wholehearted agree that many will argue against and choose against rational presentation meant to benefit their best interest even from the most sincere. And yes, not worth the fight but also one not easy to give up on when we care about the person, the cause or the truth. Mixed bag I guess. I also applaud the idea we must deal with what is and not what we wish. Epictetus statement is most interesting. A version of this says "We are responsible 2 people, not 4 them". I except minors in our care in both cases. It does matter what my child thinks of me if I am to have their respect and obedience while they are my charge. Not so much afterward. That's another topic.

So you believe the milk in the refrigerator has spoiled. You give it a sniff, a taste and you don't trust it. What would a rational person then do? Stop drinking it? But sure, keep gulping it down.

There is nothing wrong with hope. Hope is never naive. Faith, which is hope assured is a bit naive when that assurance is lacking. I seriously can't imagine what that experience must have been like out of country. Sorry that happened to you. That "fight" has trained my presumptuousness. I am always relieved when the fight I was expecting fails to materialize.

Richard: What a wonderful exchange! A serious and successful attempt to understand a person is refreshing. Thank you for sharing a bit about yourself. from that it seems you are a modest person. One who understands his limitations. Asks for and seeks help and I must assume gives it when he can. All very Canadian and I say that with some admiration. Seems a genetic predisposition for the Maple Leaf. A peace maker. Like Jacob and his wells. Your outlook puts you in a unique situation. A bit of a unicorn in todays world. It has the reward of clear sightedness. I admit, I was not expecting that. It's a flaw of mine. Please, pardon my presumptuousness. My wife said of me when we had been together a short while that my honesty will have me taken advantage of. She of course was correct. I fear the same for you. OEM warranties are not reliable and your trust in them will have you leaning on a weak wall. Perhaps it is different in Canada due to the basic nature of your people but here, you don't get a vehicle to old age with the assistance of GM but in spite of it. If I can be of service, ask. Cordialement Bougon PS French is hard even with Google Translate.

Ah, French humor. "Cute" I think is the something else you are looking for. As it is the case. I smile when I recognize common human behaviors and chuckle (introspectively) when I reflect on how different we attempt to be, to all be the same. Or at least the majority of us. Your post displayed a very common attitude about possessions and their care. I laughed out loud in recognition of this reoccurring theme so I shared it. Offence was not intended.

2 1.41421356237 0.707106781188 1, 1.414, 2, 2.828, 4..... What are these numbers? This sequence is the square roots of the first five perfect squares: 12, 22, 32, 42, and 52. Specifically, it represents 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16. Multiply any diameter value by the square root of two and its area will be double that of the original number. Multiply it by its reciprocal and its area is half the original. It's what governs a cameras aperture. It's what those numbers mean. It has application in piping (oil galleys) and pressure drops and a hundred other applications in magnetics, attenuation and so on. But what this really is, is proof that 'truth' exist. Something that is true regardless of your belief in it. There is no alternate fact for it. There is not 'other' truth or reality. Believe it, don't believe it..IT doesn't care and is not subject to this notion we can create reality. It will do what it does regardless. You will benefit from it regardless of how hard to attempt to reject it. It is perfectly ordered and in perfect order. Such truths are what anchor our perceptions of the physical world and due to that fact, it makes sense to us all in exactly the same way to every person. It works the same for the idiot and the genius, the educated and the ignorant. It works for them and in spite of their beliefs. And there are as many examples of such truths as there are stars in the heavens or grains of sand on earth times infinity. A fraction of them are expressed in mathematics and the sciences. The remainder we are all ignorant of. I dig for it like pearls and sell all nonfactual thoughts uprooted when found in exchange for it. Once you have it, it doesn't matter if you completely understand it for it to be useful to you and work for you. When I find such a truth it becomes immovable in my mind. That is not stubbornness. It's just good common sense.

Mind over matter. You don't mind so it doesn't matter. Clarity is good, don't you think? Now how can one get someone else to be responsible and make them pay for that valve body?

Ah, of course, rhetorical...my bad. Wife loves her Terrain and is hanging on with both hands. I continue to look for that adult driven, low mile, one in a million that someone treated to 2-3K mile OCI's. Found one in Chicago a few days ago (V6) and it was snapped up quicker that I could dial the number. Literally on the market for minutes. They are very comfortable vehicles and drive really well. I can see her attachment to it. Locally there was a low miler without a service history that I dismissed in under 3 minutes. Rocker cover full of carbon. Breather plugged and the oil inky and stinky. But boy was the detailing done well. Lots of toads. Few Princes. I'm starting to think the current buying public doesn't even know where the dipstick is or if they do, what to do with it.

Post moved to Peckish.

It doesn't. LOL. I quoted this guy for the bold type portions. He's done allot of testing over a long time with multiple platforms of the motor under consideration.

https://8020automotive.com/2-4l-ecotec-oil-consumption-causes-solutions/ Brian Sydnes says: April 20, 2023 at 10:32 am Agree the engine design can be reliable. When this generation of GDI engines were introduced, there were several things going on that contributed to the oil burning, carbon buildup, timing chain wear. From 2006 to 2010 the use formulation of ethanol based fuel increased from an average of 1-2% to near the full 10% ethanol (E10). This ethanol results in higher carbon, low fuel efficiency and higher fuel dilution rates, especially in GDI engines. The first few years GM was recommending an older Oil Spec, which did not take into account the new problems created by GDI, abrasive soot, fuel dilution, and LSPI. In 2012 they finally came out with Dexos spec oil. Even then a cheap synthetic blend could meet the spec. Under pressure to reduce oil use by regulators and compete with European counterparts, they introduced a new Oil Life Monitor. It took cars to over 10k mile drain intervals. This was disasterous, and finally had to revise the ECM calibration to a max of 7500 miles in 2014 when they were fully aware of excessive wear and carbon build up. Fuel dilution was serious problem and GDI petrol engine created a new form of soot, far more polluting, for more abrasive than often seen in deisel engines. They then came out with Dexos1 oil but still too late and did not fully address the problem. They finally admitted through TSBs that oil consumption was a problem and changed pistons and rings in MY 2013, this was only a head fake. They offered repairs for earlier years but knew it was not a fix. They knew GDI was a serious problem, fuel dilution and abrasive soot, intake valve carbon and PCV clogging. Early adopters back in late 1990s and 2000s were aware of these problems. Engines built after that still suffer from carbon clogging rings and timing chain wear. I have 500 oil samples of 2.4l Ecotecs from BlackStone labs. Half are port fuel injected and half GDI. Fuel dilution levels were much higher as well as engine wear with GDI engines. As a result of Low Speed Pre-Ignition in Gen 3 Ecotecs, causing massive engine damage they came out with API SN+, but still didnt address soot or timing chain wear. That did not take place until 2021 with the introduction of API SP, with many new engine tests and specs. Many owners who used premium oil and Top Tier Fuel and ignored the OLM and changed their oil every 3k, have experienced few problems with these engines. Those who used standard oil, cheap fuel and followed the poorly designed OLM suffered from oil consumption, timing chain wear and PCV clogging as early as 80k miles. Just Google GDI soot and GDI fuel dilution, it was and still is a problem. I run Amsoil 0W-40 100% synthetic oil, 2-micron bypass filter, use Top Tier, ethanol fuel, and even with 10k mile drain intervals, the wear levels are 4x less, engine is clean, looks brand new, still factory compression, factory fuel efficiency, and PCV system is completely clear of carbon and intake valves only have minor amounts of carbon build up. I now have 175k miles.

Plus three threads

My first vehicles had owners manuals that told us how to set valves and pinion gears. Gave us torque specs and clearance targets. Today they tell us not to drink the battery acid and don't read this book while driving. We are miles ahead knowing what it 'used to be' if we only apply it, right? People changed. Rules changed, Regulations changed. But the machine still needs what it needs. Motor builds heat when actually working. Heat thins oil. Needs thicker oil in response. In self-defense. Common sense....

6.35 turns. The pitch is 1.5 mm and 3/8" inch is roughly 9.5 mm. Divide 9.5 by 1.5. Same way a micrometer works.

Assemble from Scratch Sample #1 is a VOA from a batch represented in this entire table and run in a new motor at 3,750 mile intervals. Sample #1 says we have an oil with a background Nitration of 8 abs / 0.1 mm. According to one CLE 10 abs / 0.1 mm is a hard limit and something is in need of immediate attention if it breaches this value. What does the STLE have to say?: Tribology and Lubrication Technology, which is the official journal of the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers (STLE). [Quote] Oxidation & Nitration. Oxidation is the gradual degradation of oil, particularly the base stock, that takes place in the presence of oxygen and heat. Excessive oxidation will increase viscosity and can lead to deposits in the form of sludge and varnish. Likewise nitration occurs when nitrogen in the air combines with the base stock to form acids, sludge, and insolubles, all of which degrade the oil. Oxidation and nitration are usually reported together in uoa’s by a unit of measure called abs (absorption per centimeter). It’s important to understand that even virgin oil will show a measure of oxidation & nitration because the test equipment “sees” some of the chemical components of the base stock as if they represent oxidation & nitration. This is particularly true of oils that have some kinds of vegetable esters in the base stock. Thus to correctly interpret a uoa, you need to know the oxidation & nitration numbers showing in the virgin oil. Most labs use 50 abs as the cl for synthetics, above the virgin baseline, and 30 abs for mineral oil. [Close Quote) But according to one CLE this motor would be in need of a complete tune up every other oil change. I find the condemnation limit of Oil Analyzers to be quite conservative. (17 abs / 0.1 mm) "Most labs" 50 unit condemnation limits (ester synthetic) are based on not knowing the virgin values. I know mine. If I didn't the oil is condemned in the bottle on oxidation.

That was a rough start. Eagles next? OUCH!

Interesting stuff.

Nationally, Top Tier simply means it has a detergency package 3X the Federal minimum. In Illinois these are blended at the terminal so whatever one station in that chain gets, they all get. I have witnessed a station in Iowa being "Top Added" so I know it happens. But what happened is, a truck preblended with the federal minimum was servicing a station that was Top Tier so they drop a 5 gallon box of detergent adds in the hose before offloading. Top Tier is about the detergent not the fuel quality. That is Federally regulated by law. Storage is another matter.