Grumpy Bear

We have a silent member on this list that was a design engineer for Hyundai and Toyota that pokes me once in a while on another list. We have resources. Fools keep them from speaking. Awe, you don't think Lake is cute in those glasses? Mine look like his, don't you think? Limelite is not my light. I accumulated years of "Intellectual Property" and gave it away to a fella that simply asked me for it. He started his business with it. Is doing quite well with it. Although I haven't talked to Tom in some years. Anyway, discussion boards are about as much sun light as I can stand. I burn easy.

@customboss, no need for confusion. You of all people are aware that this is a dynamic situation that everyone tries to see as a static moment. Lots of moving parts that must be connected. Separating out a single point, a marketing trick, does not paint a complete picture. And you also surely understand the difficulty of explaining that dynamic. What I see clearly in mind, words sometimes can't capture. Try to explain to someone the nature of a rod bearings travels over time. How rotation reverses and what effect that has on the hydrodynamic wedge at the point of reversal. How the load at any given point along its arc effects the Hersey number. Make them understand a load plot and how GM defined and plotted that data stream during the development of the Gen 1 SBC. Even changing the forced lubrication point of entry based on that data. Get them to understand the value of time in a wear study and how accelerated testing does not even come close to the reality of Joe Average's motors life cycle. And yet, is still useful. How personal observation over decades does not lead one to the truth in the absolute only to a better/worse conclusion that we will not live long enough to fully explore. They can't do it in a lab but some a certain that a lifetime of experience is absolute. Ring tension hysteresis on film thickness at the reversal points and how those two points differ. Or how the oil temperature in the pan is not the point temperature anywhere in the motor other than the pan and its value is not the average nor even the median, just it's dynamic thermal equilibrium. What we can say is what is directionally correct but without the certainty of the acceleration of gravity. So, we chose points of discussion. Stare so closely at the eye, that we can't tell if it is the eye of a human or a horse. We don't even share points of reference in these discussions. One in concerned with wear mitigation and cleanliness and another's concern is warranty and fuel economy. A dog chasing its tail.

Neo Synthetics 5W30, 5W40 & 15W50 What ya got on them @VicFirth Add that to AMSOIL, Red Line, MTP30K, Torco and Motul

There's that 'better' word again. Hanging in air absent a reference to...........? Maybe I speak a different dialect of English. Better is what IS, before good. Marketing has it backward. To a dying man a glass of cold water is GOOD. (Highly desirable) but for how long will that glass of water support his life? So, "good" is referenced to time. In our world of lubrication that is also true. Group II oil absent any additives is a satisfactory lubricant if of sufficient viscosity naturally. Then the question is 'for how long'? Most of the time when marketing says, "better" it means under whatever underlying conditions they may or may not be referencing. BETTER oxidation resistance references TIME of usefulness not its ability to form a film of minimum thickness required for the load and speed....and so on. That doesn't say it is a better lubricant. It just last longer before it isn't. Every other thing done to oil is in support of VISCOSITY. WORK BETTER has a goal in mind. The trouble is in ascertaining what marketings REAL goal is.

A recliner can be your best friend in situations like this.

Intellectual property Sorry.

Need to Know - Lubes'N'Greases (lubesngreases.com) The link in that article was mind blowing. Webster defines 'good' as highly desirable. So, in the usual progression of Good, Better, Best in the English language takes a beating......once again and marking puts so much mud in the water we no longer know how deep the stream is. Word salad doesn't make the meal more desirable. It makes it garbage. IF the line of demarcation between a Group III and a Group IV is the consistency of molecular structure then NOVVI (Evolve) is indeed a Group IV. The unfortunate circumstances of that inhibiting it as a DEXOS1 base oil exchange is appalling and infringing on criminal. Frankly, it seems, in some cases, more suited to be called a Group V, based on aniline point, a classification AN's, benzene derivatives, do NOT belong in. Such an inclusion turns an elite field into the city dump. Yea, even if few notice. Evolves Ace in the hole, according to the article, is shear stability. So.....another Newtonian fluid just like HPL No-VII blends. Except they use a VM VII. They also don't answer honest hearted inquires. It isn't just the API getting in their way. Some of us, (ME) use unlicensed oils all the time base on the SCIENCE and not the bureaucracy. Don't worry. We are going elect-RICK.

Not budging off $3.

How many can we win we shouldn't?

I have no idea what fluid it uses. My understanding is it is a Jatco JF015E The two speed.

Hardest thing to get used to is this CVT coupled with 50's Beetle type power. CVT's do NOT like to be hurried. Noisy little things when pushed but I do like the concept. Huge speed range with little rpm shift.

1,000 Mile Service Raven 9/21/2024 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 1.2-liter MPFI triple with a CVT 976-mile OCI. No makeup Dropped the Idemitsu 5W30 SP with RL Break-in additive. Replaced Denso filter. Break in is over. 3.25 quarts Red Line HP 5W30 Purolator Pure One PL14610

Nothing to comment on. It was screwed and he fixed it nicely.

Did you note the comment on the ester used in his home brew? NOT the ones used in PCMO. A bit misleading to show a result on a chemistry meant for another application. Rewatched the fuels video as well. Picking the nits out of the visual aids of both. Some things mentioned on the TORCO site now make sense. I love a good class.

Okay then, let's start over. Short story for some context. I recently bought a Mitsubishi Mirage G4. My owner's manual says to use 0W20 FS. Same car in the UK gives a list of recommendations based on temperature and use including everything between 5W30 and 20W50. Same car worldwide and only in North America is a W20 recommended. So, the recommended weight isn't about wear or the operation of VVT or anything else. It's about OEM goals for EPA requirements for CAFE and the cost of fines for not delivering those goals. Nothing to do with what's best for your vehicle. The OEM puts you in a bind between what will protect your motor and what will protect your warranty to cover thier backsides. It's why I asked the question a few posts ago. Ya waffled with a I want both but in proper order. Paints you in a corner and me without a solid recommendation. The LAW tells us that we can substitute without reprisal as long as that choice is equal to or better than the recommendation. And it would be up to the Manufacture to PROVE your choice caused the damage in any warranty claim. The cost is on THEM. People don't like to deal with these things, so they choose suboptimal for convivence. I'm tell you flat out, you can use the recommended oil on a shorter OCI with a good result and still be in compliance with your warranty. You are never going to get a denial based on "You changed your oil to often". There are two reasons for this shorter OCI which I will explain but this is not an attempt to convince. Just info. 1.) Viscosity loss due to VII polymer shear and GDI fuel dilution. The *W20 oils are on the boarder to begin with. 2.) Dexos1Gen anything oils are NON-POLAR oils with limited, very limited solvency which is a HUGE portion of dispersancy. They will hold a very limited amount of varnish and lacquers in solution. The DI package is getting smaller all the time. IF you can bring yourself to include oils that the blender, tells you are okay to use under the Dexos requirement and yet not licensed then you have a few good options and a longer OCI. I'll give you two. 1.) AMSOIL SS 0W20. While hugging the lower end of the viscosity spec in a nod to the pressures of the EPA the use a polymer strategy that 'Stays in Grade" and they use a polar chemistry. Will go 5K without looking at labs or perhaps 7.5K at least in the summer months with a bit of lab support. You follow AMSOILS warranty record keeping requirements, and they will assist you in litigation to some degree. Don't know how that works but... @Black02Silverado is a great dealer and site supporter and with a membership I think you will find pricing surprisingly comfortable on the wallet. 2.) Red Line 0W20. It meets the specs of HTHS for a W30 and is quite polar. Normally this is a 5K oil with the newer and lower DI package, but labs may get you further. Dan at Hoerr Racing will help out on the pricing. Tell him Grumpy sent you. You may have to be patient as Red Line is moving, and supply is tight. If 5W20 gets to be on the table of choice then we have some even better choices. Then it opens up huge when allowing 5W30. The oil even GM uses in the car based Ecotec# motors.

That went well.

Oh, sir you misunderstand. I don't convince anyone of anything. People ask for an opinion. I give one. Having said that I'll offer another. One unsolicited. People that ask others for an opinion haven't got one of their own. If they did, they wouldn't ask. But you did. You just don't like the one being offered. Tell ya what. I'm good with that. Please, feel free to purchase your own education. I'm not paying for it. Paid for my own. I tried to give it to you FREE.

Got some errands to run. Talk more later. If you insist on the Dexos1Gen3 license, then a shorter OCI is the only tool you have left in the bag. 2.5-3K. If you will forgo the license and will live with the "recommended for" but wish to stay with a 0W20 you have a few more options that will take you 5K.

Question for you. Are you protecting, the oil, the warranty or the motor?

262,000 Mile Service 9/17/2024 DIZZY 2015 GMC Terrian Ecotec 2.4 I-4 500 mile OCI 2 ounces of makeup oil. 4.875 quarts of Tractor Supply Travelers SAE 40 SP + 4 ounces Red Line ZDDP 1 Purolator L15436 filter Talk about quiet. And cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeap.

262,000 Mile Service 9/17/2024 500 mile OCI 2 ounces of makeup oil. 4.875 quarts of Tractor Supply Travelers SAE 40 SP + 4 ounces Red Line ZDDP 1 Purolator L15436 filter Talk about quiet. No sample pulled this OCI. Assumed fuel diluted as pump was replaced mid OCI.

You know the answer to that

@L Morgan,Dexos is a specification/license and not an oil. Part of those specifications are "Energy Conserving", which means lowest possible HTHS viscosity and some hints of friction reducing chemistries. Boron, Moly etc. It has to meet a slightly tighter specification for cleanliness and an ever so small reduction in NOAK, or evaporative losses. If SAE and ILSAC are the floor the ladder sits on, Dexos is one rung up. It is formulated toward fuel economy and OCI lengths by regulation for minimizing waste oil. Both run counter to longevity. @Bikerjon is dead on. If you choose to use a licensed oil, change it as he recommended and keep the tune as sharp as a razor. There is NO, ZERO, ZIP, Nada, room for error. Short OCI's will leverage this chemistry. He's seen the inside of a few. Trust that experience. It's hard to come by and expensive to learn on your own. Now that the table is set, to your question I highlighted above in the quote. More directly, no there is nothing wrong with it IF you understand what you're using and use it appropriately. Now having said all the previous, many ignore these warnings and proceed and a few even have success doing it. If success is measured by getting it past the warranty and into the hands of the next owner. Valvoline ran a motor on that stuff to 500K miles, in a cell on a rolling road with little issue. We don't drive dyno's. Enjoy your new truck.