Doublebase

I've used it and I like it, goes on a little thicker than the Amsoil or Fluid Film. Seems to last a little longer. Then again with it being thicker it may not weep into the various crevice (that those other companies claim is important). And I agree, you can't stop rust, but you can slow it down quit a bit with effort. One good thing...it takes a lot to rust these frames to the point where it'll fail inspection or need a piece welded in...so yearly maintenance should only help.

My personal oil usuage... 2007 Lexus LS460 - Never used a drop until it reached 120,000 miles, then when it hit 150,000 it started drinking oil. 1 quart every 1,000 miles. 1999 Honda Accord 4cyl - Never used a drop until it got over 200,000 miles, then it started - got gradually worse up until it reached 270,000 - then it was using a quart every 500. 2008 Honda CRV - That thing uses almost no oil. 5,000 mile synthetic oil changes. I'll use anything that's on sale for it. Uses almost nothing, never have to top up. 2018 Silverado - I'm using a half quart between 5,000 mile oil changes...maybe more. I run a rather large repair facility, I always pull the dipstick before an oil change out of curiosity to see what various cars are using. I've never seen a newer GM truck that wasn't low on oil. Some of them more than others...but I've never seen one right up to the full mark. And one of them is never showing oil at all on that dipstick (60,000 miles 2014, 5,000 mile oil changes). We've told her to take it to the dealer and see if they'll install new rings. She could care less...most people don't.

Here's it is, some good stuff in this thread.

Excellent. And I'll have to keep an eye on how the Pennzoil performs during this interval - this is the first time I've used Pennzoil. You mentioned rust prevention in another post, you'll have to post what you're doing in the frame rust thread. I too am in the process of trying to protect my vehicle from rust (I live in the salt belt). I've used 3M, Fluid Film and some undercoati touch up on some areas where the wax came off. Curious to see what you're doing.

Yeah I may give Amsoil a try, only problem is I no longer do extended drains (I blame the oil consumption on my last vehicle for it). And I believe direct injection engines do a number on oil. So if I spend on the Amsoil it'll be getting dumped at 5,000 miles (seems like a waste). But I may do it anyway...try it once and see how it goes.

Well good luck, keep us posted. Down the road if you're ever able to take a photo of the inside of your intake with your endoscope, I'd be interested in seeing what it looks like. Wish we had the same engine and then we could kind of compare notes, etc. It sounds like we both do a lot of driving...easy driving. I'm at 30,000 miles a year but I may start using my wife's vehicle on the weekends to drop it down some. And I read through your maintenance post and you have similar techniques (engine break in, initial oil change intervals, etc). I will admit that I don't use as high a quality oil as you - then again I haven't reached 20,000 miles yet - but I have used a dexos approved synthetic since new, with a factory filter. First oil change was at 900 miles, then at 3,000...now I've settled in at 4,500-5,000 mile changes. I'm running Pennzoil Platinum right now. what makes a ring seal? Tension? The ring to wall fit and ring tension. And I'd say lands would be abviously a huge factor after that point (if the rings were to get stuck in the lands). You've probably seen that before - when a ring is stuck in a land its like you don't have a ring at all. That correct or am I wrong?

Well first off, grumpy, I don't think anyone is calling you an idiot, so I don't think you need to get self conscious or defensive about it. Everything is going to be ok. If not you have your methods. Lol. The hose you show there does look very impressive. It's in a vice, correct? You removed it and placed it in a vice? Nice. That hose - at least on the 5.3 engine - goes from the crankcase to the intake. The hose goes up. At least on my vehicle gravity easily allows any oil to flow back down into the crankcase. I have removed mine and I will admit mine does not look as clean as yours (although depending on a number of factors I imagine they wouldn't look the same). Here's mine (top and bottom. Top is spotless. Gravity drains the oil back down to the bottom where it shows a little bit of a trace of oil staining, nothing major) Now i I can tell you that this, this hose, looks totally different than what I catch in my catch can, and what it looked like inside my intake (prior to the catch can). I emptied my catch can last week. I'll have to post a picture of what I'll catch after 1,000 miles, on an easily driven, well maintained vehicle with 15,000 miles on it. You evidently do have some sort of outstanding driving and maintenance methods if you are avoiding this. And to that, congratulations. You are doing something that I personally could not.

I'm burning around a half a quart in 5,000 miles, so I'd say you're doing excellent. Plus my truck only has 15,000 miles on it. This light weight oil is doing no favors to engines and oil consumption nowadays. I wish they'd design an engine that uses 5w30 again, and still manage to get under their CAFE regulations. I probably will switch to 5w30 eventually but I worry about variable valve timing and the AFM system and how it uses the oil to activate those systems.

Signature series I think does have a 6 rating in NOACK, which is excellent, but keep in mind you're talking about a $12 a quart oil = $96 dollar oil change, not including the filter. Any Dexos approved oil has to have a NOACK bellow 13. Most name brand synthetic 0w20 oils are between 10-12. I think direct injection engines are causing a lot of our oil to mist right through the PCV valve system. And I think fuel sprayed directly on the piston/cylinder walls is another part of the problem. I've read the fuel is mixing with the oil on the walls and actually igniting. I've also heard particulates are accumulating on piston ring lands, causing the rings to become "stuck", which is leading to too much consumption and blowby. I've heard the rings are in worse shape than in Diesel engines. I'll be monitoring my Silverado closely - right now I'm only burning a half a quart between 5,000 mile intervals - but I have personally seen Silverados burning three quarts between 5,000 mile changes. I have already dealt with excessive oil consumption in my previous direct injected vehicle (Lexus LS 460). It began using a quart every 1,000 miles. And I took damn good care of that car - I was absolutely anal with maintenance - and I babied that thing like you wouldn't believe. No car on the road had an easier highway commute.

You seem to value maintenance and take pride in prolonging the life exptency of a vehicle, I do too. You mentioned in another post that you can control what goes into your intake (probably by driving your vehicle responsibly and maintaining it correctly). You're going to disagree with me here, but I'm going to tell you that you can't. That you will be shocked at just what is going into your intake, through the PCV valve system, in a direct injection engine. I too thought I could just "take it easy" on my gas pedal, maintain my new truck and I wouldn't experience half the stuff others do. Wrong. My 2018 Silverado - with only 15,000 easily driven, well maintained miles - experiences what I'd call pretty substantial oil/mist/fuel/blowby, entering my intake through my PCV system. I installed a catch can and I have been somewhat shocked at what it is catching. And I'm not talking water, I'm talking oil that looks as if it's been diluted with fuel (probably because it is ). I was in a variable valve timing class last week, I asked the instructor what he thought of oil catch cans. He said he absolutely recommends them on any direct injection vehicle. That he has one himself. Then half the hands in the class went up, and they had the catch cans too. I've had mine for the last 2,000 miles or so.

Red Line is definitely considered top of the line oil. I wonder if the NOACK level of redline has helped?

So what you're saying is, is that carbon buildup on DI engines either doesn't happen, or is not an issue. And you're saying that issues with DI engines do not exist. I find that to be a very interesting statement/opinion. It goes against the grain of everything I've read, and heard from people in the industry. I work in the industry, I teach automotive and I'm the department chair of several trades (metal fab, culinary, autobody, automotive), but my background is automotive. Therefore I have to stay current in the industry. I mentioned your opinion at an advisory board dinner the other night to a few factory reps and shop foremans...that carbon buildup and DI issues don't exist. They replied, "like hell it doesn't". Where did you hear that? Now at this point I was a little embarrassed because I had to tell them, from a guy on the internet in one of these forums I frequent. Which is ok because I think there is valid information on forums, and I have read your stuff and feel as if you have good opinions. And to be honest...I think forums have some of the best and latest industry trends (if you sift through and find it). Now perhaps Silverados are getting away without carbon deposit issues? I think it's too early to say. And there's a difference between "dirty" and causing problems (misfires, check engine lights, power loss). However I have read that other GM vehicles have had their issues. And based off the testaments from people I talked to the other night; Audi, Mercedes, BMW and VW, all are having serious, expensive issues. I would not let oil go past 7,000 miles on an interval with DI. These guys are telling me that the particulates they are finding in the ring lands because of direct injection is worse than they see on Diesel engines. The rings are getting stuck and the consumption is through the roof. And they are very much participating in intake removal and valve cleaning, due to misfires, power loss...from carbon build up.

I guess I'm confused at the point you're trying to make. Are you saying NOACK won't help in keeping oil from burning on the back of valves? Are you saying that direct injection engines do not have this problem at all? Or are you saying that it just doesn't matter, nothing you do will help the situation? Because engines - GM engines specifically in the Equinox and others - very much have a problem with oil/carbon/ deposits on the back of their valves. Some as little as at 30,000 miles. Then it hardens. Then it can break off and goes into the cylinder. The fuel doesn't do much cooling? That goes against everything I've ever heard. https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/971729/ Aside from this ^^^small, short article, just yesterday I read that fuel does most of the cooling and air does very little in the intake to cool the valves. http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/10/solving-gasoline-direct-injection-issues-facts-fictions-gdi/ Gasolone is cold to the touch, it will instantly absorb the heat from your hand. A fuel injector will spray a fine mist - I've never seen an injector do anything but - it's not a stream it's a mist. Then it atomizes. And PCV systems are very much a huge contributor to oil entering intakes. I'd say more so than valve guide wear nowadays. The PCV systems have become almost an afterthought by manufacturers lately. Just yesterday I was reading this. One system - a GM - has the oil return from the head (where it drops down back into the crankcase) right over where the PCV exits the crankcase. Oil gets sucked right out and into the intake. Have you ever taken a throttle body off and taken a look inside an intake on some of these engines today? There is so much oil tracking and pooling in these things that it's ridiculous. Even my Silverado with 14,000 miles on it has a very noticeable amount of oil pooling inside my intake manifold. Blowby isn't helping - and that's a DI issue, along with oil consumption - the fuel is sprayed right into that cylinder at high pressure and the fuel is mixing with the oil on the cylinder walls and it's burning it...and then the blowby is heavier...the oil mist carried out with the PCV is heavier, then it condenses right in that intake (or catch can if you have one). Then wam! Here comes the back of the valves and it fries like it's been left on the stove too long. The contradiction is once those deposits are formed, heat (excessive heat) will do a much better job at removing a deposit. But heat - the initial heat and oil contact - will fry it on there. Do I think NOACK is a scam? Hell I don't know but why not take a look into it and give it consideration? DEXOS certifications seem to be giving it consideration. Hell, Valvoline just put a new oil on the shelves designed specifically for DI engines. This video discusses the importance of NOACK and ways to combat carbon buildup on valves due to direct injection. It's in the later portion of the video, right after the catch can segment.

The article doesn't reference direct injection engines. Port injection engine will have fuel sprayed on the back of the valve dropping temperature, direct injection does not. When the back of the valve gets covered in carbon, the carbon acts as an insulator and the valves can get red hot...to the point of the heads popping off and dropping right into the cylinder. And keep in mind that the stem is also exposed through the intake port - and heat will travel up the stem - with no fuel being sprayed on that portion, carbon gathers even more. I'd say this is where the most accumulation occurs, even more so than the seat area (because the seat is cooler). I'm reading that the number one concern with direct injection engines and oil, is NOACK. Dexos approved oil has to meet a specification regarding NOACK. I've read seven is ideal. So with the goal of limiting oil burning on the back of valves and causing the problem of carbon buildup and sludge, I'd think a NOACK rating is important, no?

The concern on a direct injection engine would be the backside of the intake valve. Intake valve temperatures operate at 932 degrees Fahrenheit...the backside of the valve I'd venture to guess is normally above 400 degrees Fahrenheit, where the oil is accumulating on valves and causing misfires, power loss, hesitations. So when do you run your engine at 482 F for an hour? You don't, you run portions of your engine at those temperatures all the time and that is affecting oil burning and carbon deposits on intake valve backsides. This portion of automotive engineering will be historically classified in the "remember when they first came out with direct injection and they forgot what would happen to the valves". Then laughter.

That's impressive but at $12.80 a quart? You're talking $103 or so a 5,000-7,000 mile oil change. I was only concentrating on the well known, shelf brand, similarly priced oils. But it's good to know Amsoil's signature series is impressive. What is the NOACK on their lesser priced oils?

Watched a pretty interesting video on direct injection today and it mentioned oil changes, and the importance of motor oil quality. One thing it impressed on me is how important NOACK is for direct injection cars. The lower the better. From what I've read 0w20 is historically higher in NOACK than a heavier wight oil, which of course is an issue seeing as how the 5.3 requires 0w20. Dexos approved oil requires a NOACK bellow 13. The video I watched today recommended a NOACK of 7 or bellow, but it's very difficult to find an oil of 7 or bellow, never mind a 0w20 oil of 7 or bellow (the average is 12.8 for a 0w20). Redline has been known to have some of the lowest NOACK ratings I've seen but that was older data and these things change almost yearly, if not sooner (and those readings were from a heavier weight oil which is meaningless in 0w20 comparisons). So what I've found is that if you find an 0w20 oil with a NOACK bellow 11, you're doing pretty good. Mobil 1 was around 10.5...Castrol was around 11.5...Valvoline was around 12. Penzzoil Platinum was the lowest I found around 10.1 or so. Quaker State was also around 10 and change. I ended up buying Penzzoil Platinum simply because I always have heard good things about it and it was basically the same price as Mobil 1 (which is always competitively priced at walmart ). I recently tried Super Tech 0w20 and it too had surprisingly good numbers overall (NOACK at an amazing 10 but a TBN lower than PP), but I figured for $8 bucks more I could get the Pennzoil. Penzzoil historically has been known as a great cleaning oil as well. Penzzoil Ultra Platinum is supposed to have even better numbers but it is not readily available in stores. So I'll give this a try for a 5,000 mile run. One thing I'm not willing to do is go 7,500 miles...not with DI, timing chains and variable valve timing. I'm all set with that...throw in collapsible lifters as well. I recently installed a catch can and I will be doing CRC induction cleanings at every oil change...or every other oil change if I get lazy.

You know what's funny? I almost considered this, but then I just called NASA. No but seriously...my readings are off. I managed to get check it in three different spots in the last two days (two of the three readings say the oil is fine), the other reading says it's overfilled. I figure it's fine. I'm 3,500 miles in on my oil change. I've added a half a quart of oil and that should keep it level until I change it.

Anyone else have problems just getting an accurate reading when checking the oil? I always think I'm on a level surface but apperently not...I move the truck and it's a whole different reading. Very sensitive. It's to the point where I only check my oil at the exact location I changed it, which is a problem because it's three states away (I moved). So now occasionally I just pull into my old driveway on Saturday mornings while the people are enjoying coffee on the porch. They're cool with it though.

Well you wouldn't be the first person to note improved fuel economy from a catch can. Just the other day I watched a YouTube video of a guy who installed a catch can on his Sierra and his fuel mileage increased by an amazing 2 mpg. I just installed a catch can myself the other day and I don't know if it's the can or what but I'm averaging a little better fuel economy (tough to put an exact figure on it yet but I'd say it's gone up maybe 1 mpg so far). It's something I'm going to keep an eye on.

I don't know, I've seen a lot of things hurt the wax on these frames, it's hardly on there in the first place. Whenever I do an oil change I have to re-apply Undercoating where the oil hits the cross member under the drain plug. It takes the wax right off.

Wait a second...GM uses the upper portion of the condenser as the transmission cooler and the side tank of the radiator as the oil cooler? I don't think I've ever heard of a setup like this. Did GM ever do this before 2014?

I've heard that annual oil sprays are the best too. I'm doing fluid film twice a year, we'll see how that goes. Maybe after a few years I'll try the oil, right now I think the oil will take the factory wax right off my frame.

I was going to ask the same thing, it looks like black spray paint to me. I guess anything is better than nothing, but I wonder how the wax coating handles the spray paint? Like I said, doing something is better than doing nothing but I'm not sure this is the best idea. I do agree though that washing/rinsing the frame frequently in the winter is probably a good idea. However if you undercoat regularly it's something you need to be careful about (easy rinsing only or you'll be spray the undercoating off prematurely). I think the number one key is just to do SOMETHING - don't just look under there three years from now and think everything will be fine - because it won't.

Sorry to hear about your sister, can't imagine going through that. Regarding the gps...I haven't tried google maps, I'm not sure if I can with the iPhone using my cell server (Verizon). I'll have to check. I do use waze; it will sometimes have you detour off your route to save only minutes, which I find can be a real pain. For the most part I trust it enough to not do what the gps on the truck will do. I have been using the truck gps on shorter/more familiar areas, to kind of get a sense on what it wants to do. My overall impression is that it is kind of numb...no intuition to avoid any obvious trouble spots. And it is slow to change a route. I'll have to see if it has settings that can improve it for what I'd prefer (less traffic, not always the shortest route, quicker adjustments). I'm not holding my breath...and I'm not exactly looking for perfection here, I'd be happy if it could do what waze does. Then again I could try the Apple play on the car and maybe try using waze through the navigation screen.