Grumpy Bear

I haven't followed this particular thread but as a Science guy who loves machines, I'd say 'follow the data'. That said verify. Always give consideration to the methods used, the lab used the integrity of the person or persons presenting the data. Do what you reasonably can to allow yourself to trust the data, then trust it until it gives you reason not to. You didn't ask but I've noted over the years this tendency to 'test' one OCI at a time. That is take a single cross contaminated result and 'assume' a trend instead of building the trend. Very popular with YouTube guys as it keeps things rolling and it take allot of time to generate trends. I know you've watched allot of Lake's videos and I'm sure you've noticed that when his is testing he "Waste" at least one full, sometime two oil charges between sequences. Details matter more when the results you are looking at are so close as to be hard to parse. Some look/test to confirm a belief. They are more successful if they look for the truth even when it isn't what they wished for. Especially if you are going to hang your hat and your reputation on a product....look hard, very hard, before the leap. That's my though anyway. Hope there is something there to found useful. Thanks for asking.

Motivation or Will What motivates you? To do anything? The American Heritage Dictionary says of Motivate [transitive verb]: 1. To provide with an incentive to a reason for doing something; impel 2. To cause to be enthusiastic 3. To provide with a motive; to move; impel; induce; incite Impel, to move. I can work with that. An interesting synonym for motivate is 'goad'. A goad or Ox goad is a stick with a sharp spike used to get an ox to go where you want to go. Employers are fond of 'Motivating' employees to a particular behavior. A cattle prod will motivate allot of behaviors. Problem with motivation is that it is external. Once the reason is removed or in some other way nullified or muted the old behavior resumes. People are motivated by what they see as a benefit to them. Will, now that is a much different creature. Will is internal. Etymology suggest will is from "(the) Want of Heart". Will draws you Motivation prods you. Mom made you eat your greens but she couldn't keep you out of the cookie jar. People use motivation because it is easy, it is direct and it is immediate. But will is hard to understand in another. Take time to develop if it isn't naturally occurring but it sticks once it does. Motivation is LAZY. People that only follow the speed limit when there is cop around are MOTIVATED to do so. People that follow the speed limit because they have a love for order, safety and of their fellow humans are drawn by the safety, order and love of life to do so. It is the Want of Heart [appealing nature] that draws them to the law and they willingly subject themselves to it. From the outside, it looks the same. But if you are patient, people will reveal if what they do is externally driven, temporary and subject to change or an internal will of force, an appreciation and love for a thing that is unshakable. A heart of Will can stand alone and will find its "like". Those motivated pack like wolves and rarely survive on their own when confronted with Will. Those motivated become confused with a person of will. They can't be embarrassed, humiliated, shamed or driven otherwise from there path. One thing I know about that first group is that it will hate the second until it either receives a different "goading" or has a change of 'heart'. Minds are easy, a heart is tough. I'm not God, I can't read a heart but I can observe behaviors and I can test them and have repeatedly only to find those I ignore "In want of heart". I don't get along well with the "What's in it for me" crowd and don't miss it.

I have some stations going up sharply and others falling a bit. Same chain too. Making little sense at the moment.

Yep, that's the one.

TRIAX I've found ONE UOA on this product, their LX 5W30 and it's from 2020. Guy running it in a Ford 3.6 Ecoboost. 7K OCI an it held up well and give decent wear numbers. I found a few long time users that seem to like their products as well. Several with hundreds of thousands of miles using the SRT line. Found nothing with an oxidation value but did see a mention using the word "low'. Strikingly there is darn little independent information and boatloads of HATE for this outfit from those who haven't any ability to show receipts for their claims. Last time I heard Terry talk about this product he was claiming this was repackaged product from some Eastern European country like Romania or Serbia. Now I hear China?.... What I hear is allot of hate without proof of a foul. Point is, I haven't tested it. Don't know anyone who has and all there is to go on is gossip. Not the kind of data I tend to rely on.

Hope not to offend with this question. They have multiple lines of products. Are you looking at the right product? It's like $14 a quart direct. If yes, then there is another possible non-Nationalistic explanation. There are allot of types of esters and there are an unlimited number of blend ratios. Ester are the big end of the $$$$ blending stick and many blenders touting Ester are doing the old Pennzoil Pennzane trick. That was one of the first PAO's. About 1/2% PAO in a Group III. Here's one I have data on. AMSOIL SS 0W20 tested 6/4/2025, very recent, Oxidation value? 48.3 vs Red Line HP 5W30 at an oxidation value of 93. My RL Euro run low 80's. I haven't looked at the AMSOIL values for a long time but last I remember it was in the middle 60 range and I've seen Red Line over 100. Everyone is scaling back. TRIAX could be a 2% blend and still legally make the claim. Tell what this mini dive has done for me. Restore my confidence in the AMSOIL SS line. Anyway, I think, if my thought has any value, would be buy one quart and have it tested by someone that runs Oxidation. Until then I'm shying away. At least until there is some third party data that inspires confidence.

Right on cue (que )

Weird Some of the data sheets look like the are AI generated and lots of mistakes Just like the spec sheets from BioSynthetic

Interesting

Tell someone that they can be seen, although ignored by a particular path, and they will let you know how desperately they NEED your attention. OMG are you kidding me!

The LBZ was not originally a pickup/van motor. It was designed and installed as a Commercial Fleet Truck Motor. I did not know that until poking around a bit. From 2001 to 2005 is was used only in the Chevy Kodiak and the GMC Top Kick. First used in a HD pickup in 2006 and only two years as the LBZ. The LLY had different tuning to meet EPA restrictions according to WIKI That the case it is a different animal than consumer diesels by and large and is more like the Isuzu N series My Uncle Garry ran two of these past 1 million miles working for White/Volvo Both on AMSOIL and both extended OCI's. Diesel, even consumer versions, have very different proportions and metallurgies and run vastly slower. Yes more cylinder pressure is available but not often used. Same motor pulling an airstream was loafing. Not discounting the feet of a million miles. Bravo! Just saying one should EXPECT it.

Both on point! I assumed the HD's didn't use a stat but I am happy to be wrong. I often am when commenting on machines I haven't a deep association with. But caution. Changing it can still uncover the fact that there just isn't enough cooler AND that has no effect on engine oil temperature. Just giving additional information.

Hi Nick: Valid observation and within a very limited context this is true. The above is the customary formula used to figure the degree of gain (or loss) when comparing an oil against a traditional SAE 40. If your reference is another standard then replace 3.7 with that number. The problem is that this formula compares apples to apples within a FIXED chemistry and other base oils and lubricity additives are an entire basket of different fruits. The SAE being who they are and the OEM's being who they are compare apples to apples by 'rule'. That is a Dexos licensed oil must meet not just performance standards but base stock "Read Across" as well and live withing those values. Apples to apples. Consistency is the point of the license. It's why it doesn't matter much who's oil you use if it has a paid Dexos approval. Oils that do not and are not restricted to those guardrails can and most certainly do use combinations whose lubricity places them in the oranges, pineapples and banana basket comparisons. Each can be compared by the formula only to another fruit of kind. Here is an easy one that everyone should be able to grip as I know others will read this as well. The statement goes "SAE 20 will give better fuel economy that a SAE 30" Blanket statement. Lets work with that. HPL Premium PCMO 0W20 has a HTHS of 2.76 and a 100 C of 8.87 cSt and uses a shear stable VM polymer 0-8 SSI Kirkland 5W30 has a HTHS of 3.2 cP and a 100 C viscosity of 10.91 cSt but uses the most unstable polymer (cheap) made and has a 100 C HS viscosity of 6.9 cP! A density of .8457 puts the 100 C viscosity at 8.1416 cSt. Lets' recap HPL Premium 20 weight 100 C HS density corrected viscosity of or 8.82 cSt at a maximum of a 5% loss Kirkland 30 weight is 8.15 cSt The 30 weight is less viscous than 20 weight everywhere in the motor but the rings. Rings account for only 37% of a motors internal friction and that formula from above accounts for only that drag. The lower 100 C viscosity in the sited case it what the other 63% of the drag is working with. So the SAE 30 in this case runs freer on just viscosity than the 20 weight. This is one of the reasons for the DEXOS standard. Every oil that has a license uses the same stuff, base, adds and VM's. It's the only way they can pass a CAFE standard test procedure. Nick there are combinations of base than net lower friction just on NATURAL lubricity. POE blended with a POA has a huge impact on NATURAL lubricity and that base oil is not approved, no read across, for the API SP license and I have run across an oil yet that has a Dexos license and doesn't have an SAE approval. Bottom line, combine EVERY feature of the lubricant in question and you can find situations were 2 or 3 grades heavier lose nothing in fuel economy but add HUGE to wear control. ***************************************** Nicks question is the best example I've seen, lately, of a person holding a belief firmly and yet being open to the possibility there is more to learn and asking the question because he wants the truth and not an argument to "Be Right". Thank you Nick.

You ignored people; do know that when another person not ignored quotes you, its public in their post? When you post the first few lines of your post show in the "popular post' area on the right of the page? Your posted images still show in "Posted Images"? True flaws in the system indeed. But, damn, you're so smart. As Forest Gump says, "Stupid is as stupid does". Banding together to take on an Grumpy Ole' Bear? Stroking each others egos when you think you've said something cleaver. Cheering each other on, laughing when you think you're not seen. Cowardly Slapping each others backs. OMG...Follow me like a teenage girls from thread to thread. Are you still in Junior High? Did I break you little hearts? Am I not giving you what you want? Poor babies. Not bowing to your crap? Not impressed enough with you? Not believing the ? Idea! Maybe stomp on the floor harder. Pound you fist faster and yell a bit louder. Hold your breath until you turn blue! Maybe I'll curl up in a ball and cry or quit. Go ahead....hold your breath. In what world are you to be taken seriously?

I used to live in El Paso so I feel your pain. 180 F water stats used to be standard but they have been climbing for a long time. 207 F+ now That also adds 30 F to trans temperatures when it is fluid to fluid counter current exchange. One of the first things I did was get a colder thermostat. But a fluid to air exchanger works as well. Oil temps in motors working as hard as your get silly as well and the OEM warning system is like the old idiot lights, "Idiot, you just smoked your motor". LOL That may need a regulated cooler as well. Something under 220 F would be rewarded well. Temperature oxidizes oil, even great oils. Every 10 C /18 F doubles the rate of oxidation. Your factory OLM should consider 212 F as the base line although that itself is a fairytale not well told. I hold mine between 190 and 200 F. A work around is very short oil change intervals commensurate with the temperature you actually see. Not so lucky for the transmission for other materials reasons. Example. Regular schedule OCI is 7,500 miles. I don't think they even have a 'severe schedule anymore but the oil does and that number is 3,000-3,750 miles. Every motor is severe in reality. So lets say you measure your oil temperature with a monitoring system and find that spinning 3K at full load for two hours on a 100 F day gives you an oil temperature of say 250F ( i can easily be much higher). That is about a 40 F spread given the 18 F rule (20 make it easy) you half 3K-3.75K then half it again so your oil life running that hot is about 750 - 950 miles. Not only does it oxidize but the viscosity is tied to temperature. That 30W is a 10W at those temps. Slowing your roll would also be huge. Combine with a shorter change. Might be able to skip the coolers. Now having said all that. Most ignore all of this, never measure and dump the truck before it dies.

"Ravenol VST 5W40" Another PAO/Ester ACEA C3 and Porsche A40 oil on my radar. One source from 2024 put the oxidation value at 26 abs/cm. Use a little 0-5 SSI polymer and very shear stable. Likely won't clean a motor but will keep a clean one clean and this combination is pretty darn slippery. (Natural Lubricity) Pricy in the USA

More cooler to bring the temperature down under 175 F, preferably @ 160 F, during your heaviest/hardest/worse case tow would lengthen it's life by multiples. Not meaning to step on toes with unsolicited advice but I feel for machines. Just say'n.

Circle D, PATC or Florida Converter. Call. Wed sites tell you little but what's popular, not what they are willing to do.

I would love to see the oil and trans fluid temperatures running like that. MPG would be the last of my worries.

At what point will the old guys accept that their world has changed? Minds become inflexible with age, so there is that.... When the one I live in fails. And it has not. A post I made in another forum I am part of. Different make. Same result from the same program: This motor has an EPA MPG value of 42 mpg. A OEM 0W20 requirement for the North American market. *********************** Rolling the first tank after the thermostat change and during a stringer of really hot humid days. Those where AC is not optional if staying married is a goal. I wanted hot but humid I can do without. That said...with the AC running and speeds of 50 to 55 mph 52 mpg is falling off a log easy. Add three to 2 or 3 more if the AC is off. This is that pennies equals dollars thing I'm talking about. Running 5W40 oil that is slicker than deer guts on a brass doorknob. Heavier Non-Slip POA CTV fluid that runs cooler. Colder water temperatures. Running Ruthenium plugs. Running 45 psi cold tire pressure. Killer alignment. Thanks Dan at Belle Tire and a good set of camber bolts. Trained by a Scan Gauge III system to drive. Will roll over 50 mpg at 60 mph with the AC on. I haven't any interest in driving any faster than 100 KPH. What am I doing wrong? Well I've undone pretty much everything the OEM tried to do to improve efficiency and failed at because? Because a theoretical reduction in a fluids internal friction is more than offset by NOT dragging the piston skirts across concrete, which is what a skirt scuffing a cylinder wall is like. Look at the aluminum wear metal reports of consecutive samples from this motor. ZERO! Physics is not interested in your generational That was easy.

Well said. I've done 300K a few times and 200K isn't that hard with decent maintenance. Not even stellar, just decent. But your first line nails it. I get in Pepper and check the gas gauge, turn the key an go where ever without a thought. Across town or access country. Dizzy on the other hand is now about 278K or so and been an absolute nightmare to get it there and has been since it stuck its first ring at 80K. I put in the key and hope the 25 miles to town is going to be okay. I even leave the dog at home in bad weather so he won't have to walk. But hey, it starts, it goes down the road and we get there so...success? Not really. So yea, miles are nothing. Shape is something. I spent near the cost of the vehicle on maintenance to get Dizzy to 200K. I've spent $20 on Pepper. But yea, it's the same. Why I asked him about what success looks like. He knew what I was asking. He earned his Ignore button. **************************** Comments not attached to the quoted post. You guys know I've seen family million mile GAS motors that lived on period oils and were as clean as Pepper inside and you also know that those motors NEVER accumulated more than 1,500 on a oil change and the target was 1,000 miles. The Flathead was 500 mile OCI's and made that mark without a rebuild and still didn't smoke. You can do it on DEXOS just not at 7.5K plug OCI's. Not even 3K will be that clean by 200K but vastly better. What I'm looking for is diesel like miles and reliability from a gas motor in a modern machine. I don't even know if it is possible but what I do know is that 300K isn't that. Triple that number. People have such low expectations for things that cost more than my first few houses. Creating the experience burning my house down does not interest me. I might be too old to even get the next one to 300K but I do think I've got a good start with Pepper and gave enough receipts to say the program IS working and on solid footing. That's PROVEN. Look, I don't get upset when someone's bar is so low a pig on roller skates getting over a snakes belly in a wagon rut at the bottom of Death Valley is still a higher bar. His business, his machine, his wallet. I don't need them to be 'impressed'. What burns my bacon are those that don't want anyone else to have any opinion but theirs. All they want is to hear their voice coming out of your mouth or worse, for you to remain silent so they don't have to listen. They don't. Change the channel. Don't want anyone to know it is possible, practical and affordable. I just don't understand that kind of hate. Have a different opinion. Debate the value of your opinion. That's welcome. Peeing on another's is not. Being hateful is not. If you don't know the difference then sit at the kids table.

Then let me tune you up; you simply do not understand the roll clean has on motor life. GM does. Enough so that DEXOS has it's own standard that is tighter than the API. GM and all other manufactures have such standards. Because? Besides the fact those deposits hinder cooling? STUCK RINGS. Oil control. Plugs hydraulic ports for the AFM/VVT and oil pump circuits. Vacuum pump circuit that is your power brakes if you don't have electric brakes. It was and has been the first go to for GM every time there is a deposit related issue. What is the first step? Lower the OCI, Why? Prevent deposits they KNOW FOR CERTIAN will be there because? There license ALLOWS IT. Mine does not. Mine is ZERO. I'm still using the OEM brake pump many others has replaced on recall. Did have the ABS calibrations done that are suppose to catch it when it fails either. Why were they failing? Tight screen in the inlets was PLUGGING WITH DEPOSITS. Varnished over not sludge. Ditto many a VLOM failure. That statement "NOBODY' is simple not true. GM cares allot. Add every major car manufacture in the world. Add all top tear blenders. I care allot and it is significant. Enough to point out with "receipts' (photos) It is proof that the program does what DEXOS combine with the OEM OLM recommendations is failing at. It's proof you don't have to live with that situation and it's a guide for others that care. You are not the world un to itself you think you are. What you mean to say is, "I don't care". Great! But is it necessary to pee in everyone's cereal because you see no value in it? Again, such actions are petty and small.

Yes Teacher Learned a new lesson recently I'd hoped never to learn. I had the misfortune of catching a stone in the radiator of Raven, our 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage. That in itself was sad but it happens. No, it was the repair that educated me. I bought this car 75 miles away. There is a closer dealer but neither has shown competence. That as well is unremarkable. Sad and yet. No, the first jaw dropper was that the cost of the Mitsubishi sourced Denso OEM radiator was $800! Something I sourced from Rock Auto for $125 after shipping. Under a hundred. WOW! Tiny car that I haven't any experience with so I go to the Internet to find some video and a shop manual to see what the job looks like and where the landmines are. Thankfully I watched the videos, not in English, first. Why thankfully you say? The shop manual has you removing just about everything but the power train from the firewall forward and gives a ridiculously long 'shop hours' number. Like more that double the time required even by an old guy with a bad back in scorching weather working a few minutes here and there. At $200 an hour there was baked into the job a grand in labor cost. We haven't counted the 'extraneous supplies and towing cost yet'. Yet well north of $2,000 USD and more than six months waiting time. I expected some parts gouging. I was not expecting Mitsubishi to steal legally by abusing the book hours with such an obvious padding that Joe Average would not have even noticed nor is it actionable! That's the lesson. They steal with approval! Just standing in the shadow of the door they sneak around in the law. This isn't unique to Mitsubishi. A quick query of my mechanic friends paints a pretty sad picture of the dealership experience. I did the job myself for an out of pocket cost of just under $150 all in and a pitcher of tea. And I still beat the book. I could do it the second time in half the time now that I've seen and done it. Oh, and the wait was 5 days shipping and the best part????? It was the identical Denso radiator!!

True. Alignment will not 'repair' a set of tires that have taken an uneven wear pattern. Tire cost being an indicator of quality is not a connection one can make clearly. If you meant tire made cheaply then I'd offer this. Even the worst of the worst that can be sold can be made to wear evenly. They just can't do it for long before you run out of thread. To the OP. Get the alignment right first then get new tires.

Happiness, that's the marker for a successful engine program? Oh, I get it. "Not what you asked". Exactly what I asked, context gave the ask, and as usual for those the hate without a true cause you don't have an answer. My call is on the fact you have, have had or ever will have a motor that went the long and is THAT CLEAN. Not that it made it. Lie, deny, delay misdirect. Your not trying to have a conversation. Your interest is in disruption. You don't do and so don't want anyone else to either. That is petty and small. Go back and read @OnTheReel 's last reply. He has markers, data, a direction, a program and it will lead to a conclusion that he can and will adjust to be better the next time every time. PURPOSE DIRECTION toward EXCELENCE. You have what? Allot of "I don't have proof" To the junk drawer with you....