gas vs diesel

brax71 · July 11, 2002

i'm visiting from the Light Duty forum...

i've been walking through dealerships the past few evenings dreaming and trying to justify a few more years in debt...

was wondering, on a practical level what benefits/ drawbacks there are to diesel vs gasoling engines. I don't do any "real serious" towing or hauling, but every once in a while, i'll load it down.

I know this looks like it could be a disguised attempt to start a flame war, i promise it's not... i'm really looking for information: power, performance, mileage, maintenance, acceleration, reliability, etc etc etc!

Thanks in advance...

DMAX Daddy · July 11, 2002

My situation is very similar to yours. I will load it down but usually will be lightly loaded.

I chose diesel because of the slightly improved mileage and having additional power should I drag my friend camper up to the mountains (he offers all the time cause I let him borrow my Sea Doo).

There was a mileage spreadsheet, sorry I dont know where, that shows when the better mileage of the diesel will pay for itself. Factoring in trips my wife and baby take, and cost of diesel on average locally oan on trips, my payback is about 60,000 miles, or between 3 and 4 years. I do not factor in cases like when my wife almost ran my Suburban out of gas, with gas being $1.99 and diesel being $1.10. The miles would only be about 40,000!

CMNTMXR81 · July 11, 2002

I'd go gas then if I were in your shoes. The DuraMax is a $4,500 option that unless used all the time for it's intended purpose, is a waste. Comparitively, the upgrade from the Vortec 6000 to the 8100 is an $850 option I believe. Either will cost you the upgrade to the Allison trans if you choose LS or LT trim.

Fuel economy will be better with the diesel than with gas, but it'll take considerable mileage on it for it pay off it's premium price.

If you were using it for HD hauling/towing and or put A LOT of mileage on it, then I'd consider the oil burner.

JimWilson · July 11, 2002

Well, a lot depends upon what you're gonna use it for, but here's a couple of ideas right off the top of my head...

The dmax/allison combo is the best setup you can get in a pickup truck. Period. It's strong, powerful, durable and quiet, among other things. Unfortunately, you pay dearly for it; they're $6000+ of options, which is a big wallet hit for most people. The gas mileage is real good, far better then any of the gassers can do. And it should last for a very long time, so if you plan on keeping it a while, or you do lots of miles, then it will eventually be worth it.

The 8100/allison combo is a very powerful setup, and it's only about $3000 of options. It will pull heavy loads almost as good as the dmax. The 8100 makes the truck fly, especially if you opt for the 4.10 rear, but it will eat you alive with the (lack of) gas mileage. Getting the 3.73 rear helps -- to the tune of about 1-2 MPG -- but it robs a bit of the motors b@lls.

The 6000 isn't a bad motor either, which is what I have. Even in my CC SB with a cap, and 4.10 rear, the truck still moves pretty good -- certainly not a slouch. But, the 6000/4.10 gets no better MPG's then the 8100/3.73 setup, so if I could do it again I'd go with the monster motor.

Actually, I'd go with the dmax if I had the $$. I drive over 25,000 miles per year. When you do the calculations (MPG, price of fuel, initial cost of motor/trans, etc) it takes quite a while for the dmax to catch up to the 8100 -- and even longer to reach the 6000 -- but once you do get there it's all gravy after that.

Shaners · July 11, 2002

The 6000 isn't a bad motor either, which is what I have. Even in my CC SB with a cap, and 4.10 rear, the truck still moves pretty good -- certainly not a slouch. But, the 6000/4.10 gets no better MPG's then the 8100/3.73 setup, so if I could do it again I'd go with the monster motor.

I agree... The 300HP 6.0L is a nice motor and does the job well everyday. My last tank of fuel I got 14.5 MPG's.

I have a 32 foot, 8000lb traval trailer that I tow a few times a year, and the truck does OK.

I opted for the small block and 4L80E tranny (which is a great tranny), and spent the money that I would have to have spent on the 8.1L and Allison Tranny and spent it on the LT package and all the bells and whistles instead.

Right now an LS with a few options and the 8.1L and Ally is about the same price as the 6.0L with all the options.

Jpshostr · July 11, 2002

Basically, you gotta ask yourself if you are willing to spend all the extra $$$ (and its a lot) for that diesel motor. All diesels from the big three now are quality motors that dont' give up any performance to the gas offerings, so that could be a wash. I doubt you'll be keeping the truck long enough (hundreds of thousands of miles) for reliability to pay off, etc. In the end, it comes down to money.

Now here, we've stayed with the small block 350s to this point, however with my next truck I'm going diesel. I don't know if you've seen some of the pictures I've posted, but ours does get loaded down quite often, not all the time, but regularly. The rest of the time it is just a highway truck that sees plenty of miles under light load. Basically a diesel would be nice to have, but not a must have.

Now in my case, my truck is going to be my only vehicle. That means it'll get used for commuting, but gotta remember, the first thing thats going in is a gooseneck hitch and a DMI bumper for good reason, I intend to work it as well. If I was going to have the luxury of two vehicles, I'd go with a gas truck and a car, but thats not going to happen. I figure with the diesel I'll have the heavy duty truck I need that will do the job quite well, and then have pretty decent mileage for my long trips back and forth to school (~160 miles), the best compromise in my mind. My only drawback is the fuel, I'm going to have to add another fuel barrel here at home, or go out of my way to buy road diesel. I can live with that though.

As I said above, it sounds like you won't be working this truck hardly at all, it all comes down to money. As Lane said, do you want to pay another couple thousand bucks for a diesel and tranny that aren't needed? If you have no problem with that, go diesel. If you do, stay with the 6.0L.

kirkl · July 11, 2002

I was doing some price checking on trucks last week and one dealer said $30,400 for a 2500HD 4x4 ex cab long box LS with the 6.0L and he said that was $99 over invoice. I got that same price within $100 dollars from 4 dealers. one was $31,000 and then I saw a new 2002 2500HD crew cab 4x4 shortbox LS D/A for $34,000 at a dealer. Theres a new crew cab 2500HD LS 4x4 long box D/A with 15 miles on it on ebay for $33,800. I think if you look around good youll find a D/A for not much more that a 6.0L. Im buying a truck next year and am pondering the same question, 6.0 or D/A. I dont do a lot of hauling except a 8ft camper and ill be buying a trailor someday. My truck is my only vehicle besides my wifes car. and i do alot of driving come hunting season and I plan to keep my next truck 10-15 years.

Shaners · July 11, 2002

Three examples of three pewter crewcab 4x4 short beds 2500HD's

Mine : 2001 LT 6.0L completely loaded stickered @ $37400

New : 2002 LS 8.1L Ally at my dealer now @ $37800

New : 2002 LS D/A at my dealer now @ $41200

I have no idea what the dealer mark-up is on the Dmax or Ally or 8.1L, so that could make a difference too...

bluenote · July 12, 2002

Brax-

How long do you plan on driving the new truck? I use my dmax/ally equipped Silverado as a daily driver, and also to haul our 5er. Probably only 10-15% of my driving is hauling. I justified the cost (to myself anyways ) by comparing mileage figures to my previous truck (a GMC with the 454). I figure it will take me 6 years to offset the added cost of the Duramax, but since I'm planning on keeping this truck for longer than that, I should come out ahead. In addition, I have the fabulous towing capabilities of the Duramax throughout my ownership of this truck. I know there are arguments that diesel repairs cost more, but since they are generally less frequent, that is somewhat of a wash (plus the diesel engine has a 100K warranty). Also, the Duramax will give you a much better trade-in. You should very nearly recoup the cost of the diesel engine with it's improved trade-in value. I don't think in your particular situation, you can go wrong with the 6.0L, the 8.1L or the Duramax, but don't discount the diesel because of it's higher initial cost.

kirkl · July 12, 2002

I was just looking at the news ads in the seattle paper and theres a 2002 2500HD ex cab 4x4 longbed with full LS Trim 6.0L Loaded for $27,035 and a 2002 2500HD crewcab LS trim shortbox D/A for $34,605. Theres $6000 difference in the MSRP price. That $27,000 price is pretty tempting. May have to talk to the wife.

odoh · July 12, 2002

Don't forget that at least for now, there aren't the annual/biannual smog chk for diesels ~ yet. Doesn't seem like much now but when you have to take it in to have it chkd before you can relicense it, it'll be more significant.

~ odoh

akdiesel · July 12, 2002

I bought my D/A because I never now what I will be towing in say 5 years from now. Also the conveniance of being able to go an extra 75-100 miles till my next fuel up.

I like the diesel. It is a mute point to me on reaping my money back in the years for the upgrade.

The 6.0 is a great engine and can handle the big loads, but not every day like some of the people are doing.

The diesel will be able to last about twice as long as a gasser with the regular maintance. If there is a problem with the motor/tranny it should show up in the warrenty time. Usually after that time you will not see any lemon problems.

Yes, $6000 is a lot of money, but the ability to haul what you want and to have a truck that SHOULD last 15 years without a major over haul, sold me.

I would look real close at any diesel (GM, Ford, Dodge) that was traded in or that someone is tring to sell. Not to many people will sell or trade in there diesel because it had to much power. They have had some problems with all three diesels and they may want to be passing their problem on to someone esle. That is where it can get expensive. Parts for diesels are expensive, but if they are good parts they should last a long time.

And as for the "Oil Burner" coment.

If you were using it for HD hauling/towing and or put A LOT of mileage on it, then I'd consider the oil burner.

The 8.1 burns more oil than the Duramax. As a matter of fact I have not burned any oil in mine.

jelisfc · July 12, 2002

I agree with CMNTMXR81 about gas vs diesel but I'll ask another question.

Do you want or need a crew cab truck?

This is the single reason driving my decisions in the next truck I buy in the next year.

I have a '99 C/K Z71 with the 350. I tow a 4500 lb snowmobile trailer 3000 of the 18000 miles I drive per year. I probably have an overall average gas mileage in the 14 mpg range, 8 mpg when towing. Now I 50% want and 50% need a crew cab for my next truck. No Avalanche for me. I won't comment on the looks but I need at least a 6.5' bed. From all of the comments and talking to 6.0 and 8.1 owners if you drive them right an 8.1 gets about the same mileage or close to a 6.0 and I want a 6 spd so I save $1345.00 going to a HD 8.1/6 spd. Hmm...that's a good start on new wheels and tires!!!

It's simple for me. A new ext cab 1/2 ton gets me now where to my goal except deeper in debt. I'll drive my C/K into the ground first. I'm waiting for the 03's because of the new Bose, DVD, and power tow mirror options.

Ask yourself which aspect of the new trucks you want or need the most and how does that effect the options that go with it.

DMAX Daddy · July 12, 2002

AK Diesel,

I think he was referring to "Oil Burner" fuel wise (diesel) and not actualy engine oil. The 8.1 will burn more engine oil from what I have read around here.

ScoobaMatt · July 12, 2002

The 6000 isn't a bad motor either, which is what I have. Even in my CC SB with a cap, and 4.10 rear, the truck still moves pretty good -- certainly not a slouch. But, the 6000/4.10 gets no better MPG's then the 8100/3.73 setup, so if I could do it again I'd go with the monster motor.

I agree... The 300HP 6.0L is a nice motor and does the job well everyday. My last tank of fuel I got 14.5 MPG's.

I have a 32 foot, 8000lb traval trailer that I tow a few times a year, and the truck does OK.

I opted for the small block and 4L80E tranny (which is a great tranny), and spent the money that I would have to have spent on the 8.1L and Allison Tranny and spent it on the LT package and all the bells and whistles instead.

Right now an LS with a few options and the 8.1L and Ally is about the same price as the 6.0L with all the options.

How in the good God's name are you getting 14+ MPG with your truck.... We hae similar trucks and even after tankfulls on granny driving, I can not for the life of me top 12.5 MPG.... I think I must have gotten thirsty one !!! HAHAHA !!!

Otherwise, as far as the rest of the truck goes, my needs are very similar to your and my 6.0 works fantastic !!!!!! No additional expense needed and mine tows, hauls and drives just fine..... And just for kicks, about a month ago I hauled 4100 pounds of sand home to do some landscape work and with the truck in tow haul mode and my headlights guiding in small planes, the truck hardly noticed the load was back there !!!! Very impressive truck if I must say so myself !!!!!