Lincoln Kicks Crapota Down To Number 2 In Reliability.

[05GMCZ71]

I always love seeing news stories like this.

 

Lincoln took the top spot for the first time in a closely watched survey of long-term vehicle quality. J.D. Power and Associates says Ford's luxury brand leads its annual vehicle dependability survey for 2011. The study measures problems experienced by the original owners of vehicles after three years.

 

Lexus is No. 2 in the study, followed by Jaguar, Porsche and Toyota.

 

Toyota swept seven segment awards, more than any other automaker this year. The brand also performed well in long-term dependability, J.D. Power said.

 

The Japanese company's reputation for quality came under fire after massive recalls starting in 2009. But U.S. regulators closed their investigation into the No. 1 carmaker last month and concluded that electronic flaws were not to blame for reports of sudden, unintended acceleration.

[Daryl LBZ]

Thats good. I wish GM would make the list for once.

[P71_CrownVic]

Lincoln's win is hollow. When you have so few customers, its not hard to please them. On the flip side, when you have as many customers as Toyota, it's quite an accomplishment to be so high. Remember that the Cadillac SRX almost outsold the entire Lincoln brand last month.

[rdnkcpa]

Lincoln's win is hollow. When you have so few customers, its not hard to please them. On the flip side, when you have as many customers as Toyota, it's quite an accomplishment to be so high. Remember that the Cadillac SRX almost outsold the entire Lincoln brand last month.

 

What is more important, GM and Ford are turning profits. If you turn out a quality product people will buy it.

 

You are a trip. Keep drinking the GM Kool-Aid. At least a Ford product made the list. When and if a GM product ever claws its way to the top, please let us know if it is a "hollow" victory. In your eyes it won't, it will be the best thing ever to happen to mankind. As delusional as your posts are, I do look forward to reading them. If anything you bait otherwise sane human beings into spirited arguements. So, please keep posting about how Ford sucks, Ford does not know what it's doing, Ford's management are clowns, Ford's hollow victories, etc, I really do enjoy them.

[beave84]

Lincoln's win is hollow. When you have so few customers, its not hard to please them. On the flip side, when you have as many customers as Toyota, it's quite an accomplishment to be so high. Remember that the Cadillac SRX almost outsold the entire Lincoln brand last month.

 

What is more important GM and Ford are turning profits. If you turn out a quality product people will buy it.

 

You are a trip. Keep drinking the GM Kool-Aid. At least a Ford product made the list. When and if a GM product ever claws its way to the top, please let us know if it is a "hollow" victory. In your eyes it won't, it will be the best thing ever to happen to mankind. As delusional as your posts are, I do look forward to reading them. If anything you bait otherwise sane human beings into spirited arguements. So, please keep posting about how Ford sucks, Ford does not know what is doing, Ford's management are clowns, Ford's hollow victories, etc, I really do enjoy them.

 

 

 

 

+1 Glad to see an American made car at the top no matter what make.

[P71_CrownVic]

If you turn out a quality product people will buy it.

 

So you're saying Lincoln's are not a "quality product"? Because no one is buying them.

 

Lincoln sales through Feb. 2011

 

 

Look at these staggering results. Total sales are under 6K units (That's 212 units a day VS 563 a day for Cadillac) The MKS (which is a rebadged Taurus) is down over 52% for the year, the MKX (rebadged Edge) is down almost 13%, and the MKT (just a rebadged Flex) is down over 41%.

 

The Town Car and Navigator (which are ancient) are outselling the MKS and MKT. The only product that's doing good (which is relative) is the MKZ...the rebadged Fusion.

 

You are a trip. Keep drinking the GM Kool-Aid.

 

I don't know what that means. Do you have any proof this "GM Kool-Aid" you're talking about?

 

When and if a GM product ever claws its way to the top, please let us know if it is a "hollow" victory. In your eyes it won't, it will be the best thing ever to happen to mankind.

 

Clearly false.

 

As delusional as your posts are, I do look forward to reading them. If anything you bait otherwise sane human beings into spirited arguements. So, please keep posting about how Ford sucks, Ford does not know what it's doing, Ford's management are clowns, Ford's hollow victories, etc, I really do enjoy them.

 

My posts are filled with facts. You cannot backup any of your assertions against me you have made.

 

Show me where I'm wrong with my statement that this is a hollow victory for Lincoln?

[falcon598]

just because the sales are down on a lincoln atm, doesnt mean that their win is "hollow" as you put it, nor does it mean their products are not "quality."

 

now forgive my ignorance here, but RDN said "If you turn out a quality product people will buy it." and you refuted with "So you're saying Lincoln's are not a 'quality product'?" i guess i dont quite follow what you're getting at...he by no means said that Lincolns are not quality, in fact he stated that they ARE...at least, thats what im reading...feel free to correct me if im wrong!

 

anyway, nice job Ford, good to see American Pride at the top!

[P71_CrownVic]

just because the sales are down on a lincoln atm, doesnt mean that their win is "hollow" as you put it, nor does it mean their products are not "quality."

 

It does indeed mean their win is hollow. it's not hard to please a small amount of people. It's very hard to please a large amount of people. With so few customers, it's not hard for Lincoln to do well.

 

now forgive my ignorance here, but RDN said "If you turn out a quality product people will buy it." and you refuted with "So you're saying Lincoln's are not a 'quality product'?" i guess i dont quite follow what you're getting at...he by no means said that Lincolns are not quality, in fact he stated that they ARE...at least, thats what im reading...feel free to correct me if im wrong!

 

He said, "if you turn out a quality product, people will buy it". People are not buying Lincolns. Their newest models are down staggering amounts.

 

I am pointing out the foolish assertion that quality has something to do with sales. In fact, it doesn't.

 

The G8 was a brilliant, quality product...and it didn't sell.

 

---------------------------

 

Plus, is whole study is a crock. It's terrible. If a customer complains that they don't like the way the seat recliner lever feels in their hand, that's considered a problem. If a customer complains that their full size SUV does not get 40MPG on the highway, that is considered a problem. If a customer reports that the cup holders are too small, that's a problem. And and as far as JD

power is concerned, a failed transmission at 5K miles is treated exactly the same as a cup holder that's too small.

 

So, knowing that, you can clearly see that the more customers you have, the likelihood of stupid (non) problems goes up significantly and that it's not a accurate representation of actual problems or reliability with a vehicle.

[DTyrrell]

He makes a good point, because otherwise wouldn't Ford be up at the top of that last. Lincoln is just a ford vehicle with a Lincoln badge and a bunch more crome (oh and I am fully aware GM does the same thing, they had what five different Uplander Vans? all the ****ing same). So if Lincoln is the most reliable vehicle, shouldn't Ford be too?

 

But they are because Ford sells much more and you get people saying stuff like their cup holder is too small.

[rdnkcpa]

I am pointing out the foolish assertion that quality has something to do with sales. In fact, it doesn't.

 

The G8 was a brilliant, quality product...and it didn't sell.

 

---------------------------

 

Plus, is whole study is a crock. It's terrible. If a customer complains that they don't like the way the seat recliner lever feels in their hand, that's considered a problem. If a customer complains that their full size SUV does not get 40MPG on the highway, that is considered a problem. If a customer reports that the cup holders are too small, that's a problem. And and as far as JD

power is concerned, a failed transmission at 5K miles is treated exactly the same as a cup holder that's too small.

 

Quality has everything to do with sales. The reputation for quality is how the Japanese automakers made inroads into the NA market. Toyota, Nissan and Honda have something near 35% market share. In the late 70's and early 80's when the Japanese makes really took off, Detroit was turning out JUNK.

 

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

 

The reason they got 33.5% market share is they built QUALITY vehicles that WERE a better value over domestics. That 33.5% use to belong to the big 3, but they chose to turn out inferior products. About half way down the WSJ page there is a graph where you can clearly see the market share decline of GM and Ford and market share rise of Toyota & Honda. Their market share increased because they built a better car and offered more value for the $$. The near death of all 3 domestic companies has finally got them producing better vehicles. In the 1970's way before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye, the US experienced the first oil embargo from the middle east. The Japanese vehicles being sold here were better on gas, and as side note people discovered they were reliable.

 

Where is your proof that the JD Power study is a crock? Just like you saying a hollow victory, your assertion of customers complaining about poor gas mileage in a SUV is just an opinion. Show me the proof that a undersized cupholder is treated the same as failed transmission.

 

No doubt Cadillac has a good line up, not arguing that, in fact I'd love to have a CTS. It is a BMW killer. All I'm saying is the JD Power study showed the Lincoln's came off the line with fewer defects per the parameters of the survey. That translates to fewer trips back to the dealer. My point again, that is good for Ford, good for GM because they have to compete, and good for the American worker. Good for the consumer, more vehicle for your $.

 

The first step in your recovery is to accept that you are a fanboy.

[falcon598]

please read thoroughly lol. you refuted by saying that he had said that lincolns are NOT quality. he said they ARE quality. lol and a small number of people is rather wrong...because a vast number of people in this world are owners, and current drivers, of ford products, be it lincoln, or any other ford product. you said yourself the cars are exactly the same minus badges, and chrome, then the entire topic becomes very broad. thus you cancelled your own argument of "its easy to please a small number of people."

 

and im pretty sure, there are millions upon millions that own ford products, and millions upon millions that own GM products...this argument has become rather irrelevant. the win is not "hollow" they won, thats all that matters, and they beat foreign piles of junk...soooo thats that.

[old-chevy-dude]

a win is a win, doesn't matter if it is by an inch or a mile, bottom line, hollow or not it's a win for Lincoln, period end of story..

[rdnkcpa]

a win is a win, doesn't matter if it is by an inch or a mile, bottom line, hollow or not it's a win for Lincoln, period end of story..

 

 

+1 Be proud to wave the flag.

[P71_CrownVic]

Quality has everything to do with sales. The reputation for quality is how the Japanese automakers made inroads into the NA market. Toyota, Nissan and Honda have something near 35% market share. In the late 70's and early 80's when the Japanese makes really took off, Detroit was turning out JUNK.

 

The reason they got 33.5% market share is they built QUALITY vehicles that WERE a better value over domestics. That 33.5% use to belong to the big 3, but they chose to turn out inferior products. About half way down the WSJ page there is a graph where you can clearly see the market share decline of GM and Ford and market share rise of Toyota & Honda. Their market share increased because they built a better car and offered more value for the $$. The near death of all 3 domestic companies has finally got them producing better vehicles. In the 1970's way before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye, the US experienced the first oil embargo from the middle east. The Japanese vehicles being sold here were better on gas, and as side note people discovered they were reliable.

 

That was then, this is now. Right now, it's the perception of quality...not actual quality. Like I said, the G8 was brilliant...and it didn't sell.

 

Where is your proof that the JD Power study is a crock? Just like you saying a hollow victory, your assertion of customers complaining about poor gas mileage in a SUV is just an opinion. Show me the proof that a undersized cupholder is treated the same as failed transmission.

 

Once again, the public gets misleading brand scores rather than model-level results. (Brand averages can be heavily influenced by a single bad design, the introduction of a new design, or the lack thereof.) And then there’s the little matter of what counts as a “problem” in J.D.'s book. Apparently, it’s anything the survey respondent reports as a problem, rather than a manufacturer-related shortcoming. The VDS’ three most commonly reported problems include brake noise (get them serviced), pulling to one side (get your car aligned), and excessive window fogging. Window fogging? Maybe by the time the third year rolls around it’s time for customers to grab the glass cleaner.

 

LINK

 

No doubt Cadillac has a good line up, not arguing that, in fact I'd love to have a CTS. It is a BMW killer. All I'm saying is the JD Power study showed the Lincoln's came off the line with fewer defects per the parameters of the survey. That translates to fewer trips back to the dealer. My point again, that is good for Ford, good for GM because they have to compete, and good for the American worker. Good for the consumer, more vehicle for your $.

 

Most of Lincoln's products are built outside of this country.

 

The first step in your recovery is to accept that you are a fanboy.

 

The first step in making accusations is to be able to back them up.

 

 

please read thoroughly lol. you refuted by saying that he had said that lincolns are NOT quality. he said they ARE quality.

 

You are missing it...big time.

 

Once again:

 

He said that if you build a quality product, it will sell. I pointed out, that Lincoln's products are not selling.

 

So by his statement...by default...Lincolns are not quality products.

[AThomas7782]

Blah blah blah, Ford sucks.

 

Look, I contributed.