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On an AV site, AV guys just aren't understanding why I want a cable that can move more data. I'm having issues with lower data throughput cables, so I want one that can move more, so I was trying to join a conversation about a new spec of cable.

 

It's like I am replacing crimped pipe and putting on bigger exhaust system before I install a supercharger, and they are like "why, you don't have a supercharger". I say I want to improve exhaust flow, and they say "you don't need more exhaust flow yet since you don't have a supercharger".

 

It has been days of talking into a circle.  Should I just leave the conversation, or what, I'll post it for your reading. 

 

Hope you have some time.

 

___________________

 

Here is my attempt to contribute:

I have been waiting for some 48Gpbs cable to future proof, I have had some issues with my certified premium cables just randomly stop working, hoping they new cables will last longer.

I know this thread concentrates on the longer cables, but since it has been stated any working cable applies I've figured I would share some things I have found, as I think the 12-15ft/4-5 meter cables are going to be a big deal since that is what will be needed for a lot of people, like me, who have the TV on the wall and the cables behind the wall, going down the the other electronics below.

I realize this size is going to be tricky because HDMI says copper can only go to 9 feet,but I'm hoping it can/will happen, because $150 12 ft fiber cables are going to be ridiculous.

While none have any official status obviously, I have found a few that are being advertised as "2.1"/48Gbps Ultra High Speed.

I know what you are about to read doesn't actually mean the cables will work, but as of now I figure this is the best way to weed some the false marketing & BS.

What I have been doing is looking for the official adoptors on the HDMI site that have 2.1 indicator near the name, on Chinese sites like Alibaba since that is where they will be made anyway it will probably be sold there first. I have found a handful of cables. Unfortunately I haven't found any of the cables(yet) on AliExpress from adoptors. For those that don't know the difference, the former is the wholesale site, the latter is like a mix of Amazon and eBay. AliExpress usually sells stuff individually, and the main site usually sells bulk orders, although not always.

I do not yet know if these are any good, and wondering if anyone has seen these yet or has any idea about their quality.

I have found one active cable for a great price(if it works), that goes up to 300 meters, and is available in quantities of one.

I can't post links yet so here is how to get to the products.

On Alibaba, search: 2019 new version 2.1 Active Optical support 8K 200m 300m HDMI cable for multi media

It's by/from
Zhongshan Ksin Electronics Co

I have found one by a company on the HDMI list, but they don't have a 2.1 symbol, but it seems they are actually following the HDMI marketing guidelines(well, except it's copper and up to 16ft), so that caught my eye, looks as if they are "trying" to do it right whatever what is worth to you, so Listing in case the adoptors list is a little out of date.

Go to the SIIG website and look for the Ultra High Speed Cable

And finally, there is one on Amazon by a 2.1 adoptor, that goes up to 3 meters(too short for me, but maybe will help someone else) by Accell. (No I didn't write that review, but I got the search idea from it)

Accell Ultra High Speed HDMI cable on Amazon.

I'm am thinking of trying a few, but don't have anyway to testing these myself.

I just stumbled across the above, look for cables first and then looking into the manufacturers.
 
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post #104 of 117Old 10-06-2019, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent6er View Post
Here is my attempt to contribute:

I have been waiting for some 48Gpbs cable to future proof, I have had some issues with my certified premium cables just randomly stop working, hoping they new cables will last longer.
The ONLY way to future proof your cabling is to install your cables in a conduit if you don't have easy access to your cables. Connection technology will always lag behind video technology so upgrading your cables is a distinct possibility.

If the cable mfr follows the HDMI.org rules for labeling their cables they can not use "HDMI 2.1" in their marketing unless they specify which HDMI 2.1 hardware options are available. They also can not label the cables themselves with the HDMI hardware version number.

The problem with HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) at present is that there are no consumer devices available yet that can utilize some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets so there's no way that the cables can be tested in a real world setting. Cable mfrs can make all kinds of claims it seems and be cagey in how they "verified" their cables. Ultra High Speed HDMI (48Gbps) will be the "official" labeling of the cables once HDMI.org gets around to trademarking that label like they did for Premium High Speed HDMI cables (18Gbps) which indicates that the cable has been tested and certified by HDMI.org to meet the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. Unfortunately there are lots of cable mfrs already using that label which does nothing more than confuse the public in hoping of making sales.

The HDMI 2.1 hardware specification (48bps) states that the maximum cable length for passive cables is 1m - 3m (3' - 9'). Any longer than that then an active cable, preferably a hybrid fiber cable will be needed.

The basic rule of thumb is this:
For 4k HDR runs under about 25' (the maximum certifiable length for passive cables), a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label) should work.
For 4kHDR runs over 25', a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k is one that has received very good reviews from AVS users) is recommended. It is an active cable, and as such can not be certified by HDMI.org as of yet. In fact, active cables in general, fiber or copper only, are not allowed to be certified at this point in time.

Keep in mind that the cable is just the data pipe. It can not modify or alter the signal it is carrying.

I've used Premium High Speed HDMI cables at less than 10' lengths and had zero issues with 4k HDR (DV and HDR10). I've also tested, and am still currently using, the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables at the same length with zero issues as well. Hybrid fiber cables, not just fiber cables, are indeed expensive but my guess is that is what is going to be needed for reliable 4k/8k HDR in the future. In fact, Ruipro is releasing in the upcoming weeks their 8k (48Gbps) hybrid fiber cable. Those cables are tested by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), which is the HDMI.org approved testing program. But, being as the cables are active, they can not get the same certification or QR label that the copper-only cables can. We mention Ruipro a lot because those are the cables that get the most positive reviews by actual users on AVS.

Bottom line, if your cables are in-wall, then they should be installed in a conduit to facilitate swapping them out easily and safely. Just use what works best now and don't worry about HDMI 2.1 until you have devices that have the current HDMI 2.1 chipsets. Then upgrade your cabling to cables that have been proven (by actual user reports) to be able to carry the HDMI 2.1 signal without issues. Even if you have cables now that can pass the 48Gbps bandwidth, the current chipsets are HDMI 2.0 only which is standardized for 18Gbps.
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post #105 of 117Old 10-08-2019, 09:23 AM
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I was specifically speaking about cables, for the purpose of going in the wall between the TV and media center/stand. So 6 feet roughly. The vast majority of cables, for this purpose, won't need to be longer than 15 feet.

On a side note, I am experienced with home wiring, car My low post count isn't from inexperience, I just usually don't post about AV related stuff online. Recently HDMI has just become a big, prolonged mess.

At least from pictures I have seen, it looks like Elecom had a 4meter prototype for testing, as shown in a Anandtech article, and the connectors weren't the elongated type the hybrid ones seem to have. I wonder if this was some official HDMI Forum event? That would be odd for them to have it there!


Search for the article Anandtech
HDMI Forum: Certification Program for Ultra High Speed HDMI 48G Incoming
 
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post #106 of 117Old 10-08-2019, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent6er View Post
I was specifically speaking about cables, for the purpose of going in the wall between the TV and media center/stand. So 6 feet roughly. The vast majority of cables, for this purpose, won't need to be longer than 15 feet.

On a side note, I am experienced with home wiring, car My low post count isn't from inexperience, I just usually don't post about AV related stuff online. Recently HDMI has just become a big, prolonged mess.

At least from pictures I have seen, it looks like Elecom had a 4meter prototype for testing, as shown in a Anandtech article, and the connectors weren't the elongated type the hybrid ones seem to have. I wonder if this was some official HDMI Forum event? That would be odd for them to have it there!


Search for the article Anandtech
HDMI Forum: Certification Program for Ultra High Speed HDMI 48G Incoming
Prototype UHS HDMI cables were introduced at this year's CES. Prototypes can be very different from what eventually is shipped and proven to work. The only cables that I have seen testing results and specs on are the Ruirpo4k/8k hybrid fiber cables which will be released soon (Ruipro8k). That doesn't mean that there aren't other mfrs out there but I haven't seen any independent testing data on them and the Ruipro cables are here now. Ruipro uses Simplay Labs which is an ATC for their testing and validating. Being as Simplay Labs is an ATC, they have to use testing protocols and equipment requirements as specified by HDMI.org (the very folks who got us in this HDMI mess in the first place). As I mentioned, the biggest issue and roadblock for testing/verifying is the fact that there aren't any HDMI 2.1 devices that fully support all of the HDMI 2.1 options. So testing in a laboratory situation can be very different once the cables are in the hands of consumers and used in their systems with many different types of connected devices and configurations. To really know if the "UHS" cable you purchase will work as expected is to connect it to HDMI 2.1 hardware validated devices.

The bottom line is that there are going to be, and already are, cable mfrs making claims and promises for their cables that support some, or all, of the HDMI 2.1 specifications. If your cable access is easy to get to, then that shouldn't be a problem because you can easily and safely swap out your cables for one that will meet your expectations. Passive cables that meet all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, at this point in time, will still be limited to 9' as specified in HDMI 2.1. Longer than that will probably require an active cable (copper-only, fiber, or hybrid fiber), of which there aren't any HDMI approved certification programs available. The Ruipro cables are tested and validated by an ATC but they still won't be able to get the "certification" label, at least not yet.

As we get closer to "Black Friday" the cable marketeers will shift into high gear and make all kinds of claims so all one can do is use your best judgement and hope you are correct, but until one has HDMI 2.1 validated devices there's no way to know for sure.
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post #107 of 117Old 10-10-2019, 03:29 PM
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I know this doesn't mean anything until I can find it again. But I saw an Alibaba listing that had a copy of a HDMI 2.1 test result from one if the Chinese ATC's. I was going to share it here, to see if the test result looked legitimate, Problem is I forgot to save the link(I thought I did), and I looked at so many listings I can't find it again. I'm pretty sure I know one of the brands it was so I'm digging through the site for it. So some are posting it openly, at least in China.
 
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post #108 of 117Old 10-10-2019, 03:48 PM
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I found an example, but it's a three meter, but this is the "Certificate" style I saw, I can't post a link directly yet so I made it obvious what needs to be fixed.

alibaba dot com /product/62275678076/2019-Newest-Ultra-High-Speed-2.html?s=p&__detailProductImg=//s.alicdn.com/@sc01/kf/H8b6aa0706014405ab4fe00d931f2fa1et/2019-Newest-Ultra-High-Speed-2-1.jpg_140x140xz.jpg&spm=a2706.wap_new_search.19988 17009.2.6e94284fClyBEL
 
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post #109 of 117Old 10-10-2019, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent6er View Post
I found an example, but it's a three meter, but this is the "Certificate" style I saw, I can't post a link directly yet so I made it obvious what needs to be fixed.

alibaba dot com /product/62275678076/2019-Newest-Ultra-High-Speed-2.html?s=p&__detailProductImg=//s.alicdn.com/@sc01/kf/H8b6aa0706014405ab4fe00d931f2fa1et/2019-Newest-Ultra-High-Speed-2-1.jpg_140x140xz.jpg&spm=a2706.wap_new_search.19988 17009.2.6e94284fClyBEL
There are no "certified" cables for the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications, at least ones that are recognized by HDMI.org. If it is a Chinese only site it is probably bogus. Your link doesn't work, at least from here.

I would not fixate on an "HDMI 2.1" cable. Just get what works well for you now, because source material, and devices, are still quite a ways off.
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post #110 of 117Old 10-10-2019, 07:45 PM
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It's is not a certified cable, it is the CTS"passed test certificate" from Granite River Labs, an official HDMI ATC. Saying it passed the spec test. The vast majority of cables are made in China, just rebranded. This is one of the actual manufacterers.


I found this works, On google, search

alibaba 62275678076

It brings up a page in a language I don't know, but that is the listing, the final picture shows the "paper".

The minimum order for that one is 500 pieces, at 2.42 a piece.
 
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post #111 of 117Old 10-11-2019, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent6er View Post
It's is not a certified cable, it is the CTS"passed test certificate" from Granite River Labs, an official HDMI ATC. Saying it passed the spec test. The vast majority of cables are made in China, just rebranded. This is one of the actual manufacterers.


I found this works, On google, search

alibaba 62275678076

It brings up a page in a language I don't know, but that is the listing, the final picture shows the "paper".

The minimum order for that one is 500 pieces, at 2.42 a piece.
The cable is a passive, Premium High Speed HDMI cable (HDMI 2.0), and it is 3m (9') in length, which is the maximum certifiable length for passive (copper-only) cables. The fact that the "certificate" lists Product Model Name as HDMI 2.1 cable does not follow the cable description requirements as required by HDMI.org (it doesn't list which HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications it has been tested for). The "documentation" is confusing. One document lists it as an "HDMI 2.1 cable", which is wrong for the reason I gave above, and the other documents are for cables that have passed the HDMI 2.0 specifications (Premium High Speed). Do they bulk test the cables or is each cable tested for compliance (which I doubt). The cables are being sold in bulk to distributors so they can test them (hopefully) to see if they will indeed meet and pass the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications.

It's your money so you do what you want to do but there are all kinds of red flags with this product.

CTS, Compliance Testing Specification, is used to certify products as "HDMI 2.1 compliant", not the HDMI specifications. HDMI 2.1 is not a feature, it is the version of the document that is used to design HDMI devices. In other words, if a product passes HDMI CTS, it can then be used to develop and market the HDMI specifications, as long as those specifications tested for are listed if HDMI 2.1 is used in the product description. Just because a cable passes CTS doesn't automatically mean that it will meet the HDMI 2.1 specifications.
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Last edited by Otto Pylot; 10-11-2019 at 08:20 AM.
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post #112 of 117Old 10-11-2019, 08:31 AM
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I would just like to reiterate what Otto has been saying.

Based on cold, hard experience with previous iterations of cable, NOTHING, not even tested compliance in a lab is going to guarantee all works as planned with real HDMI 2.1 devices. I would expect there to be an iteration or two before things become reasonably stable and predictable. I could be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it

Personally I would put an 18 Gb/s cable in conduit now and replace when you have your own real-life 2.1 devices to test with. Paying a premium for a cable that may well not work in the future seems pointless. But, if you do decide to jump in with a (very early) "2.1" cable just make sure it's easily replaceable!
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post #113 of 117Old 10-11-2019, 08:59 AM
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Interesting thread. Do anyone know if active 48gbps cables introduce any additonal latency compared with passive?
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post #114 of 117Old 10-11-2019, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
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I would just like to reiterate what Otto has been saying.

Based on cold, hard experience with previous iterations of cable, NOTHING, not even tested compliance in a lab is going to guarantee all works as planned with real HDMI 2.1 devices. I would expect there to be an iteration or two before things become reasonably stable and predictable. I could be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it

Personally I would put an 18 Gb/s cable in conduit now and replace when you have your own real-life 2.1 devices to test with. Paying a premium for a cable that may well not work in the future seems pointless. But, if you do decide to jump in with a (very early) "2.1" cable just make sure it's easily replaceable!
I'm not arguing if that what it came across as, I was just wanting some clarification, as there is a lot of bad information out there. I have personally had multiple "premium Certified" High speed cables fail on me, I was hoping this new spec with the "bigger pipeline" would be more consistently reliable.
 
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post #115 of 117Old 10-11-2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
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Interesting thread. Do anyone know if active 48gbps cables introduce any additonal latency compared with passive?
In theory, a hybrid fiber cable (which is an active cable) should not produce any additional latency depending on length but until they are tested properly and in the hands of consumers with devices that have the HDMI 2.1 chipsets (48Gbps) there’s no guarantees or any way of determining that.
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post #116 of 117Old 10-11-2019, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent6er View Post
I'm not arguing if that what it came across as, I was just wanting some clarification, as there is a lot of bad information out there. I have personally had multiple "premium Certified" High speed cables fail on me, I was hoping this new spec with the "bigger pipeline" would be more consistently reliable.
The current HDMI specifications are "capped" at 18Gbps. It doesn't matter if the cable can reliably handle 18Gbps, 21Gbps, or whatever. The HDMI chipsets will determine the correct bandwidth up to 18Gbps for the source material it detects. The cable is just a data pipe.
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post #117 of 117Old Today, 11:30 AM
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That isn't my issue.

I want more throughout capability to get around potential manufacturing defects in the cable, since I don't need the full 48.

An example, speaking of pipelines.

[Higher letter corresponds to higher volume]

Say it was a pipe for liquid. You need to move B amount of liquid. You buy a B size, but it it actually only moving A amount, due to manufacturing defects. So moving up to a C size would easily move B amount, and you would be prepared to move (at least closer to) C amount.

I just sick of having to replace certified premium cables that are giving me issues

 

 

 

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SnakeEyeSS Senior Enthusiast

SnakeEyeSS

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,I fixed my issue, Wal Mart has a new Monster active fiber cable that Monster claims can handle the new spec and it's $45(!! Lower than the avg price for these, and it's a Monster, I guess Walmart set them straight on pricing)

 

It has the Monster warranty of if it ever fails to meet stated claims we will replace or upgraded it to equal of better cables for free.

 

So Buy it, if it ever doesn't work for something in 2.1, get a new one down the road.

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