Answer to the tranny? NO. It could be fine if you're just loafing around most of the time, but if you actually use the power or drive the truck hard & work it like a truck, the tranny most likely won't hack it. Hell, the tranny/TC can barely handle the STOCK output of these trucks. The 8 speed was a "band-aid" by GM they knew/KNOW is flawed & was a temporary solution to "keep up w/ the jones's" until their joing-venture 10 speed developed w/ Ford could be implemented. Whatever you do - yank ALL the AFM related hardware while you're at it going w/ a new cam/lifters & I'd also swap out the torque converter for a beefier/more well designed aftermarket. With a good tune & fresh fluid the tranny would have a better chance & not grenading itself w/ the AFM delete & TC upgrade. I would probably consider upgrading the driveshaft too if you're adding that much more HP - again, stock driveshafts have issue dealing w/ STOCK power levels - btw, you could punch a hole through your driveshaft w/ a screwdriver......you don't want it tearing apart on ya @ hwy speeds. I no longer have a GM truck, but I do have a C5Z vette, alot of guys go w/ centrifugal style superchargers for peak HP + packaging, but if you notice all factory boosted GM engines go w/ roots type blowers....while may not make the same power, consensus is they're more reliable & truly drive like stock - Edelbrock's SC's are roots type bolt right on top. I'm curious - has anyone succesfully transplanted the blower from an LSA or LT4 to a GM ecotec engine? Is it possible? I saw a G8 GT @ a car show last summer that had the blower from a wrecked CTS-V (LSA) - THAT would be an interesting build.....and may very well be cheaper/easier? Lastly - I know you didn't mean it that way, but I had to chuckle @ "investment" - its a TERRIBLE investment, but it'll put a smile on your face & YOLO Keep in mind - both Ford & RAM will be coming out w/ factory blown warrantied 700+HP trucks in the next year or so......
Spend some time out west (CA, NM, WY, CO, AZ, WA. MT) see what you find....actually part of the reason I ended up getting one. In a roundabout way same reason I was looking @ HD's even though I don't "need" one. In states like those people absolutely use the ever-loving crap outta them, and then some! There are F150 Raptor forums, I'm on a couple - Fords/Raptors aren't immune to issues either, but overall I think its a better built vehicle than what GM's offering. On the other hand, I see guys posting on there blowing a beefy-ass forged tie rod (again - bigger better stronger little bits - the details add up - go ahead & lift a GM for 35"s, but the axles/diff/A-arms/bushings/bearings etc. are all plain jane weak cheapo) along w/ bushings & ball joint.....from off-roading the SH*T outta his truck & guy had pics of him getting air etc......& guess what? Fixed under warranty courtesy of FOMOCO When you build a truck that's capable of entering a baja race, jumping dunes, while still carrying a factory warranty & a claimed 8800 lbs towing/1200 lb payload capacity you KNOW the little bits (A-arms, bushings, bearings, strut mounts, couplings, diffs, axles) etc. are all beefed up to handle it. Same goes for HD trucks that weigh 1500-2000 lbs more than their 1/2 ton siblings, rated for much higher workloads & are being sold KNOWING they'll be used for plowing/towing/hauling etc. - then yeah, you're right to expect all the supporting parts to be more "robust" & wear better overall in comparison to a regular mall crawler 1/2 ton. So while I agree many people don't NEED or USE all the capabilities of a truck like the Raptor - the very fact that is capable of being abused like that lends support to the ruggedness/reliability/durability of the truck overall.
I just got into a new 2018 Raptor after totaling my '15 6.2 Sierra (theres a whole thread on it w/ many GM guys getting panties twisted - for the record I still like alot of GM products & still own a C5Z) - what you're stating is 100000% accurate and then some. For comparison - I purchased my truck for $59,500 including a truxedo tonneau + $1000 credit towards 100k b2b warranty. It was a highly optioned 801A truck stickered for $66.8k - I was contemplating getting back into a fully loaded GMC Denali that stickered similar to my Raptor but I got them down to $51.8 To me - even though I spent $8-9k more, I still feel like its the better deal overall - if we were talking a '19 GM truck w/o that steep discounting it wouldn't even be worth discussing. You CAN'T add the suspension/A-arms/steering/tranny modes/extra power/35" LT tires/beadlocks/exhaust/fender flares/skid plates/etc. for that kinda money. You just can't. And if you COULD somehow swing it for equal cash - you immediately lose your warranty + devalue a vehicle that already will depreciate faster than a comparable Raptor. Thems the facts boys. Also - math above included a warranty into the difference in price. Oh and the other thing you'd lose in addition to your $$$ & warranty trying to make a regular 1/2 ton into a Raptor? You'd lose out on MPG - big time. My 6.2 Sierra lifted 2.5-3" on 33"s w/o the lower chin splitter averaged 16.1 mixed overall. My Raptor riding on heavy ass 35" BFGs, pushing out 30 more HP/50 TQ & sitting even higher & being even less aerodynamic is getting 15.4 mixed so far w/ a heavier foot, only 2500 miles, & more city driving for sure. We all know what kinda MPG a 4" lifted GM truck riding on 35"s gets. IF you do wanna straddle the line of modding vs warranty guys have been consistently getting +100 HP/TQ @ the crank w/ TUNE ONLY. A Cobb accessport allows you to swap right back to stock parameters. 0-60 in 4.6-4.8 seconds tune only. 420whp/465rwtq As far as reliabilty? I used to be skeptical of the 3.5 ecoboost....like 10+ years ago when I was poking fun @ the SHO's wanting to race camaros/G8's - fast forward a decade+ & look around.....how many 3.5EB explorers, taurus', F150's (and the 2.7) do you see in commercial/fleet/first responder/police vehicles. Lots. You ALL see shit loads. Ford is now capping off the Raptor & current F150 generation w/ a "super raptor" that'll be debuting the new 5.2 SC'd V8 good for around 700hp alongside the newest GT500 - Dodge will attempt to compete w/ the TRX Meanwhile we just keep bending over saying "thank you general may I have another" w/ their "bandaid" temporary fix 8 speeds, incessant shaking, junk torque converters, & hope you enjoy the off-center steering wheel couple w/ a column shifter outta a '94 suburban. Face it - brands take turns as "king of the hill" depending on who has the best design/engineering/marketing at any given time.....lately Ford & Dodge have been beating GM to the punch & then some.
One thing I'll say after driving the Tundra......when you consider cost, gas mileage, power, & the fact it is so dated & not a fully boxed frame designI feel like a prospective Tundra buyer would be better off w/ a 6.0 equipped GM 2500......will get better gas mileage, way more capable, no AFM crap, & the motor/tranny combo is proven.
Driving an '18 Ford Raptor now....lost my GMC to a deer - not a trade, but when ins. totaled my Sierra I decided after GM getting my $$$ for my last 4 trucks - 2 of which had a number of issues - I decided I should open up my options a little bit. 900 miles on the Raptor now & am happy thus far. All manufacturers will have their issues, just started to seem like I was expecting the stereotypical stuff to just fail on the new GM trucks & like magic just kept happening - lifters, injectors, fuel rail, 3rd brake light, starter, NAV/infotainment, tranny, wheel bearings, torque converter seat, shakes, etc. etc. etc. I was all set w/ potentially getting a "new" '18 waiting for all the old gremlins to reappear or crossing my fingers that a complete redesign 2019 was going to be that much better? All set. Let someone else be GM's guinea pig. Smart biz move by them - my guess is w/ the shoddy quality, Mexican builds, lack of innovation, etc. on the '14-'18 Trucks, plus avoiding warranty claims, reducing the warranty duration mid-cycle, & charging big $$$$ for all of em they probably padded the wallet fairly [email protected] least I hope so after the bailout & then laying thousands upon thousands of people off to boot. First full size Ford, maybe not my last - will see how it holds up. The bar has not been left very high by my past GM trucks sad to say.
pop the hood on that 5.0....tell me its "small", displacement is sometimes misleading lol! Ford has some "big" engines. I have the HO 3.5 in my '18 Raptor & while I was a little skeptical initially after 850 miles I'm starting to really like the way the power builds w/ the tt V6 & the smoothness of the transmission, my best takeaway is that the power/tq seems more "usable" in city/country roads vs. the N/A V8 competition. Also - at least the HO version - has "sneaky" strong acceleration @ part/partial throttle similar to a diesel HD truck.
crushNchowda posted a topic in New England Owner's Group's TopicsNot sure this OK on this forum, but since this is new england club figured I'd give you all a heads up am parting out my 2015 sierra that was totaled, below is a craigslist link for set of 20" granite alloy wheels + nittos for sale had the wrong link initially - try this: https://southcoast.craigslist.org/wto/d/mansfield-r20-nitto-ats-20-black-wheels/6825503234.html
Yeah definitely wasn’t a comparison- but it especially wasn’t a comparison between a Denali & a Raptor- however I did “cross-shop” those vehicles. If you think people don’t - you’re crazy, while I know forum attracts Moreno passionate auto enthusiasts (like myself) many guys just want “the next best thing” for a truck & view a high country, Denali, raptor, longhorn & platnium all the same. Price range thing. however some other posters mentioned modding- I DID mod my Sierra- firstoff it was an all terrain 6.2 black on black not unlike my all black raptor, I already put on bilsteins, 2.25” rears, was about to add a leaf, had 33” nittos + a set of studded snows, etc. it was a compromise even on those basic mods- in order for it not to roll & truly lift it needed top setting on bilstein, while it handled well the ride suffered, the A-arms & ball joints & bearings are all puny for what you’re asking if you do any basic off roading compared to what you can do w/ a raptor stock- that’s NOT a knock on the GM- it’s a just a fact, & the GMs weren’t really designed for that. They certainly perform better as a truck overall in the traditional sense if you know what I mean. i just wanted to let people who were curious know that it is certainly worth a look. Or a comparable regular F150 ecoboost- I wasn’t sold on the tt V6, but they’ve been around for a while now- & used in fleet/commercial use especially in police work as a testament to reliability & now w/ the port injection it’s even better. the Raptor motor has manybof the beefed up forged internals shares w/ the ford GT tye regular F150 3.5s do not lastly all should go check out the YouTube review comparison from the “fast lane truck” w/ the new Chevy trail boss- you would be impressed what Chevy can do w/ their platform too- they just need to kick it up another notch.
If I had a GM truck w/o the 100k powertrain warranty & didn’t want to “mod” it- particularly deleting the AFM & adding aftermarket cam, or adding aftermarket torque converter - then I would absolutely get one. I’ve had 4 vehicles w/ V8s & AFM that went over 45k mikes 2 of the 4 had lifter/AFM induced issues (2015 Sierra & 2008 G8 GT) i dropped lifters 2x on my 6.2 Sierra & it seemed like was happening again when I totaled it w/ 62k miles. my buddy is on his 4th K2 (keeps complaining when GM updates truck whether it be lights or infotainment & “upgrades”- he’s now on a ‘17 Denali ultimate) 2 of the 4 he owned had torque converter replacement. The jury’s out whether it’s simply incorrect/overfilled fluid, poor software programming, bad torque converter, interference of AFM or a combo of all this that causes the erratic & sometimes unbearable tranny behavior. I also had my headunit/Nav infotainment go haywire around 40k- would act as if a “ghost” was just tapping the screen random buttons would act as if pressed the GPS would jump around, menus would just pop up etc, became virtually useless in many ways & I was also searching for replacements for that as well. These are are things I was “OK” w/ failing b/c I did intend on keeping the truck long term & don’t mind some modding along the way b/c it was paid off- I relegated myself that fact & figured camming/stalling it + throwing in slick aftermarket head unit would liven up the truck some & make the next few years of ownership more enjoyable. many people don’t think that way or have the ability to have an expeinsve truck w/o a payment & don’t need the hassle/financial pain of having to deal w/ a truck loan payment AND a new can after a lifted dropped & wiped out the stocker. gotta decide what kinda owner you are & how long you plan on keeping it- I do agree it’s best to buy from the dealer.
The first time I dropped a lifted on my ‘15 6.2 actually didn’t drop was sticking & replaced- 2nd time one started going which was not too long thereafter it dropped just as I got to dealer, ended up replacing 2 more lifters + passenger side fuel rail due to it being “heavily oxidized” & damaged by tech removing it- was removed b/c a couple injectors also needed replacement. Write up about the experience somewhere on the forum. all was well after that for about 20k miles just recently before I lost the truck to a wreck @ 62k miles started Getting “tinkling” sound on cold starts- probably another lifter. you only got a 60k warranty on your ‘17- even w/ a 100k powertrain on my ‘15 if it did indeed have another lifter/injector/AFM issue again @ 62k I would’ve had the dealer fix but ordered a DOD delete cam kit @ same time & just replace it - get rid of the headache , gain some power, sound like a proper V8 truck 100% of the time.
Yeah the GT350/350R are sweet- truth be told The additional $$$ I put down outta pocket to make the deal on the Raptor work & result in a low/minimal payment I should have outta the way in under 2 years w/ ease- I had been setting aside & was SUPPOSED to be used toward a C6 ZR1 w/ my ‘03Z as additional collateral. since a deer created a possible alternative set of plans for me (& that $$$ set aside) I decided to “go big” this time & get whatever the hell I wanted (within reason) & splurge a little on a new DD truck instead. What started out as “bottom feeding”/bargain hunting for nicely optioned 2018 6.2 GM trucks turned into “could I swing a new diesel” then morphed into a test drive in a new Raptor. my first full size Ford truck, one of the only ford vehicles I’ve ever owned period & I’ve probably had 20 @ this point (had a couple ford rangers that served me well as winter beaters while my GM muscle car rested) see that? Ford & GM can get along, how do you think they came up w/ this buttery 10 speed tranny? dodge on the other hand? F*** em!!!! 😂😂
The best price on Denalis w/ a 6.2 mind you, are not under $50k anywhere. There are $50.5k deals @ Laura. I got my local dealer down to $51.8k on a Denali ultimate + ttl - no extended warranty. I got a new '18 raptor for $60,500 + ttl w/ a $1000 tonneau & a 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty. I didn't need a tonneau in the Denali b/c have my leftover from my totaled truck, but if I were to add in a tonneau + warranty on top of it now you're talking probably more like a $6000 difference. I IMMEDIATELY would've purchased a magnaride delete kit ($450) & sold my stock wheels for $$$ to get new wheel/tire setup, & either Bilstein 5100s or Eiback leveling shocks (+550-$750 w/ install) - I would've kept the magride shocks for resale down the road wouldn't have parted those out (at least not for a while). So between those 2 mods (that I wouldn't have needed on the raptor) + the value of the warranty & a tonneu now you're talking about an even narrower delta between the 2. If I could've found an SLT premium plus w/ the 6.2 & options I wanted probably would've gone that route, but very few left. Its not like I am not familiar w/ the K2s - I have had 2x2014's & this past 2015, total 115-120k miles between all 3, my buddy has had FOUR lol, he's on a '17 or '18 denali ultimate right now (and coincidentally that truck is on its 2nd torque converter.....) I test drove the 2018's - when a truck capable of leaping 3' in the air for a 50' stretch riding on 35" LT all terrain tires delivers a noticeably more cushy ride than the "ultimate" in luxury trucks....you know its a special vehicle. All I gotta say is - again, have PLENTY of experience w/ GM trucks - more than most people I see chiming in on the site, had an '07 Silvy previously have owned a G8 GT, GTO, grand prix turbo (back in the day) & my dad & grand dad probably owned a dozen caddies/buicks/GM pickups between the 2 of em as well. I have an '03 Z06 in the garage right now that I love up & down - BUT I'm a gearhead/auto enthusiast in general first & foremost, & I'm telling ya that Ford nailed it on this one. Drive one & you will see. If you want another prime of example of them doing something really well, get a ride (or better yet test drive) a new mustang w/ the voodoo V8 - best sounding engine I have ever heard in person. Track machine outta the box. No hard feelings toward GM - had its issues, but I know any make can. Good luck & I'll check in from time to time may be able to assist in some of the troubleshooting stuff.
Yes - when it comes to the FI motors I def think there's some merit to running a catch can, FWIW the ones made for the 3.5 egoboost are much larger/more connections than what you've come to expect on the V8 applications. Ford does use both direct & port injection - supposedly the port injection helps avoid the carbon buildup on back of valves, but there's still blow by w/ the turbos to consider, at any rate it is something I planned on doing. I wanted one of these when I knew they were coming up for a redesign, was initially bummed no V8 - but then started reading/watching review after review gushing over it, saw that the MPG's were improved & weight was down, & got more interested. When I realized they were consistently being sold for markups over MSRP though, I completely dropped them from my "radar". Only when I started seriously shopping around did I realize you could haggle on some Raptors, especially '18's or any trucks WITHOUT the 802a equipment group - & then I got alot more interested. There are positives & negatives for all the truck makes, I do think in general though ALL 1/2 tons are not what they used to be, which is another reason I was also cross shopping some of the HD's - just think they hold up better. The Raptor in a weird way blends both. I still have a soft spot for GM smallblocks, I was sneakily HOPING I dropped another valve right when warranty was ready to expire so I had an excuse for a cam/stall on my 6.2 LOL - The 10 speed tranny is legit so far from what I can tell - I really like the responsiveness.
crushNchowda posted a topic in 2014 - 2018 Chevy Silverado & GMC SierraUnfortunately I totaled my '15 Sierra SLT premium plus w/ AT package 6.1 & 4x4 - hit a deer @ 70 head on, ironically 2nd time a deer caused me to total GM truck (first was a 2014 5.3 - I avoided that deer couldnt avoid a pole)- what sucked was I owned my sierra outright, had 61-62k on it, just put new set of tires & did a full brake job/tranny/diff fluid swap in last 10-12k miles. On a positive note ultimately got $32.8k for the truck after showing as much recent maint/parts invoices as possible (keep your receipts/records!) & that increased the net payout by about $1200. I shopped around a bit - didn't like the 1/2 ton Rams, not for me - I think they look nice & have a very comfy/techy interior but dial shifter, push button start, heaviest/slowest, air ride concerns etc. turned me off. The fairly loaded (SLT I think?) '19 Cummins I drove was AWESOME however more truck than I could ever really need & nowhere near the same kinda deals on those vs. 1/2 tons. The '18 leftover GMC/Chevy 1/2 tons were really what I figured I'd end up w/ since the deals out there are very good right now -only issue was finding an SLT premium plus CC w/ 6.2 & 4x4 was very difficult - I wanted the 6.2 again & I really liked the heated steering wheel/sliding window/moonroof. There is a sea of Denalis to choose from, & best deal I found locally was a loaded up Denali ultimate stickered for $66k got em down to $51.8 - I'm not interested in 22"s, power running boards, ventilated seats, etc. but some of the other gadgets are nice to have & I do think that body style is the best of all 1/2 tons in the last 10 years. I much prefer it over the new '19s I drove a few regular 1/2 ton Fords & didn't really love them, I did like the F250 diesel & IMO in terms of "bang for the buck" they seem to be the best overall, you can get a well optioned F250 turbo diesel for $55-60k crew cab nav leather etc. The Cummins & Duramax trucks all seemed to be $10k higher give or take w/ similar options. Again - F250 seemed a little too much truck for me, but my buddy has a '15 thats got a tune & lift & its insane. The 1/2 ton Rams feel "soft" & slower....but great sounding engine/exhaust, interior comfy as hell, well optioned, can be haggled down easier.....but I was turned off by the lack of performance (the ZF tranny shifts nicely tho) Then I drove a Raptor, & I was hooked. There are some shortcomings/negatives I have identified in the Ford vs. GM 1/2 tons & I'll list them below, but if you were to ask me if a GMC Denali should be priced equal to a mid-optioned Raptor ultimately....no. My 6.2 Sierra had 3.23 gears w/ 8 speed & a gibson exhaust, after the last tranny update + new fluid & 3x flush from the dealer I still think that truck is the fastest stock full size truck from 70-100 I've been in - alot comes into play w/ that gearing/tire sizes/tranny gear splits etc. The way this Raptor rides though is unreal - it is smooth as glass, no rattles (this isn't even a knock really on GM trucks - I do think they "rattle" a bit because the frame/body is so stiff - doors are heavy etc.), somehow it is able to absorb serious road imperfections while still having "tight" handling & exhibiting minimal body roll considering what it is capable of - definitely better in both departments than my Sierra w/ Bilsteins (and the billys improved both aspects to begin with). Also - it is able to put power down in 2WD amazingly well given the suspension/tire/gear setup & all the power on tap. I've already noticed in situations where I wouldn't/couldn't give the GM all the power for fear of serious wheel hop, losing control of rear end, or having the stability/tc step in @ the wrong time causing an issue - the Raptor just hooks. It simply defies logic. It is "sneaky" fast - builds power progressively w/ minimal turbo lag & I find myself going faster than intended b/c it is so smooth/quiet. SO here are some things I miss or "dislike" on the F150 Raptor vs. a comparably equipped GM: Despite a near $66k sticker price - truck lacks the following (although this stuff can be had it requires higher options) No power folding mirrors despite power adjustable No memory seats despite having 10 way power lumbar buckets in front (and adjustable pedals lol) Does not have auto dual zone climate control Does not have auto lights More hard plastics than I'd like in upper trims Some of the switch gear/buttons seem more flimsy/cheaper materials No heated steering wheel @ my trim level *Many of these little things & a bunch more come w/ 802a package - I have 801a* On the other hand - below are some things I really like that it has or just "likes" in areas that I felt it performed better: LED lighting all around, "spot" lighting on bottom rockers & outside mirrors that can be turned on indvidually - headlights better than even the newer '18 GM's (cant speak for 19s) Power locking tailgate Panoramic roof (there are issues w/ these - seem to be concentrated more in the 14-16 model years w/ less issues on '17+ trucks, but it is very nice option gives the cab an open feel & a high end touch Magnesium paddle shifters on the steering wheel, steering wheel in general = best I've ever encountered hands down in a truck/SUV & better than 95% of the sports cars/sedans I've driven The whole touch screen/nav/infotainment system is just entirely better/quicker & more intuitive than GM's - also had to keep in mind my '15 truck essentially had the head unit fry & go bonkers starting around 40k miles (thank god the steering wheel buttons worked) The bluetooth is MUCH clearer on both receiving & speaking ends The seats/leather on these trucks seem more comfortable & higher quality @ any trim level - obviously the Raptor's in particular are especially nice The all AL body is nice to have - you KNOW if you're keeping the truck for a while it isn't going to rust Frame has a triple "E-coat" from factory w/ 5 year warranty - def seems like it'll hold up from showing rust much better than GM - I treated my truck frame w/ Daubert chem spray once a year Ability to turn on the LED bed lighting from the bed itself is a nice touch The cast AL linex coated running boards are a nice feature I attached the window sticker so you get an idea of the truck I bought - stickered for $65.8 (not sure exactly what else was on for the additional $500 vs. window sticker - dealer installed accessory) I ended up getting the truck for $59.5 + ttl & that included a tonneau & $500 "credit" toward extended warranty (wasn't sure @ time of deal what plan I would take) - ultimately I shelled out another $1000 additonal @ time of delivery for a full bumper to bumper 100k warranty. Was this truck worth $8-9,000 more than the Denali I nearly pulled trigger on? No question. The drivetrain/running gear just feels that much beefier & substantial - its very much like an HD crossed w/ a 1/2 ton w/ a dash of ATV, range rover, & baja truck thrown in. The A-arms, shocks, bushings, bearings, tie-rods, leafs, driveshaft, diffs ALL look/"feel"/perform @ a higher level & seem like in "normal" world use w/ mild offroading towing/hauling it'll all easily outlast the stuff on the standard GM's (and dodge & toyota for that matter) I may come back to GM - but was time for a change. Happy w/ the purchase & the other plus w/ these trucks is they simply hold value as good or better than anything else out there. I haven't come close to breaking it in w/ only 150 miles on it thus far lol, old gas still in tank, but from all my research & preliminary results seems like it'll only be 1-1.5 mpg off my 6.2 GM that I had level & 33"s on.....again this is an amazing engineering feat from Ford considering the truck is heavy, has huge LT rated AT tires, 4.10 gears, & has the aero of a brick. You put those tires on a GM - let alone the damn 4.10s - & you can forget about sniffing anything close to 20mpg & 15 would be a stretch.
crushNchowda posted a topic in 2014 - 2018 Chevy Silverado & GMC SierraTotaled my ‘15 Sierra & trying to decide what set of wheels to leave on it for salvage vs. sell - or buy dirt cheap 17” wheel tire/combo & sell both? ill have a set of nitto terra grappler G2 275/60R20 w/ about 70-75% tread life mounted on granite Alloy black 20”s (setup does require small spacers that are included) & a set of general grabber arctic studded snows also 275/60R20 on factory 20” all terrain wheels w/ nice black lugs have 85-90% tread left. Both sets in good shape the snows just need cleaning. also have an advantage hard hat tri-food tonneau cover about 3.5 years old also in great shape let’s no water in whatsoever & when clampled down w/ tailgate locked provides great security compared to aome other types. gauging interest on the wheel setups I planed on offering the snows for $1100 and the AT’s for $1300 obo.pickup locally or meet within 50 miles of Gillette stadium Both sets have TPMS & lugs.
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